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Post by Cody™ on Sept 6, 2018 9:04:09 GMT
I don’t know for sure. But that would be my assumption as well. Why? I look at these things academically. I find it interesting. When I was a Christian and if I was still a Christian I would reject the trinity as well. In fact, I don't see that anywhere in the Bible it says there are three gods in one. It's a disingenuous invention of Rome. I respect the few Christian sects which reject the trinity. You don’t see it anywhere in the bible simply because that isn’t what the trinity teaches. If you’re going to dismiss something it would be more intellectually honest of you to actually represent it accurately. Trinity = ONE God(Being) who exists in THREE persons. And, no, it was not an invention of Rome. It was something believed decades before Catholicism came on the scene. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 6, 2018 13:30:50 GMT
I don’t respect any of them, because they are all just different levels of nonsensical. Meh, it seems religion is intrinsic to the human experience. 99.9% of all humans since the cavemen have had some sort of religion. I view it dispassionately but with interest like reading a history book. Too many atheists seem to take it personal. I don't. I think atheists who take it personal do so because it has a direct, adverse affect on them and their lifestyle. If it was only just a private and personal thing that doesn’t affect anyone but the believer, then I’d probably be a lot different for many atheists. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 6, 2018 13:40:22 GMT
That merely lists the three Christian gods. It does not say they are the same god. Yet, since worshipping more than ONE GOD was strictly forbidden in Judaism & subsequently, Christianity too, Christ Would not Have Instructed His Apostles & disciples to Baptize in the names of 3 gods; Only One God. That only proves that it’s a contradiction (like the many, MANY others in scripture), not that a Trinity exists. The concept of one God in “3 persons” IS polytheism, because you are giving three separate individuals god status. So it’s a self contradicting paradox. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 6, 2018 13:58:18 GMT
Yes, and that's why Rome went through acts of contortion to claim that the Father, the Son and the Paraclete were one god. Judaism is monotheistic. It's very clear that Christ considered the Father separate from himself. The New Testament condemns idolatry and worshiping "other" gods. Why logically can't there be three separate deities in Christianity? Did He...? Gospel according to St. John chapter 10, verse 30: "I and the Father Are One." By your own logic (the literal interpretation of scripture), all Christian believers are also God. Because they are all ONE, and they are all in Christ, just like he is in God. He makes no distinctions, which means that being ONE is equally applicable to all. Do you believe you are also God? And yet... John 1:18No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.Notice how scripture says that nobody has seen God even though people have seen Jesus. If Jesus was God, this scripture is false! ...and... John 6:46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.Notice how scripture only ever refers to the Father as “God”. Which could literally be interpreted to mean anything! Especially if Jesus’s birth was planned by God and prophesied as part of God’s plan. The point is, it doesn’t demonstrate that he himself was god, unless you force the interpretation through the most narrow lens possible. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 6, 2018 14:03:36 GMT
I look at these things academically. I find it interesting. When I was a Christian and if I was still a Christian I would reject the trinity as well. In fact, I don't see that anywhere in the Bible it says there are three gods in one. It's a disingenuous invention of Rome. I respect the few Christian sects which reject the trinity. You don’t see it anywhere in the bible simply because that isn’t what the trinity teaches. If you’re going to dismiss something it would be more intellectually honest of you to actually represent it accurately. Trinity = ONE God(Being) who exists in THREE persons. Trinity doesn’t “teach” anything. Trinity is a doctrine that was “taught” by many religions that predate Christianity, and taught differently by many denominations of Christianity. Actually, it is a teaching of Rome since they are the first denomination to make that an official doctrine some 300 years after the death of Christ, via interpretation from scriptures that THEY canonized. There is no Trinity mentioned in the bible, Jesus never mentions a holy trinity, and neither he nor the disciples taught that belief in trinity was required for salvation. |
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Post by gameboy on Sept 7, 2018 4:49:28 GMT
I look at these things academically. I find it interesting. When I was a Christian and if I was still a Christian I would reject the trinity as well. In fact, I don't see that anywhere in the Bible it says there are three gods in one. It's a disingenuous invention of Rome. I respect the few Christian sects which reject the trinity. You don’t see it anywhere in the bible simply because that isn’t what the trinity teaches. If you’re going to dismiss something it would be more intellectually honest of you to actually represent it accurately. Trinity = ONE God(Being) who exists in THREE persons. And, no, it was not an invention of Rome. It was something believed decades before Catholicism came on the scene. It does not say in the Bible there is one god who exists in three persons. There is God the Son praying to God the Father and asking him for guidance. They are different entities. A Son can't be his own Father.  |
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Post by clusium on Sept 7, 2018 5:25:04 GMT
You don’t see it anywhere in the bible simply because that isn’t what the trinity teaches. If you’re going to dismiss something it would be more intellectually honest of you to actually represent it accurately. Trinity = ONE God(Being) who exists in THREE persons. And, no, it was not an invention of Rome. It was something believed decades before Catholicism came on the scene. It does not say in the Bible there is one god who exists in three persons. There is God the Son praying to God the Father and asking him for guidance. They are different entities. A Son can't be his own Father. I already showed you were it says so (St. Matthew chapter 28, verse 19). No, the Son Is not the Father. The Church does not teach that. The Church teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are 3 Distinct Persons In the One Godhead. I will use the example St. Patrick used. The Shamrock. There are 3 leaves on the shamrock, & yet it is one & the same plant. So it is with the Trinity: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit Are the Leaves in the One Plant (that Is: God Himself). |
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Post by gameboy on Sept 7, 2018 6:10:25 GMT
It does not say in the Bible there is one god who exists in three persons. There is God the Son praying to God the Father and asking him for guidance. They are different entities. A Son can't be his own Father. I already showed you were it says so (St. Matthew chapter 28, verse 19). No, the Son Is not the Father. The Church does not teach that. The Church teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are 3 Distinct Persons In the One Godhead. I will use the example St. Patrick used. The Shamrock. There are 3 leaves on the shamrock, & yet it is one & the same plant. So it is with the Trinity: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit Are the Leaves in the One Plant (that Is: God Himself). It never says they are one entity though. You use the term "God Himself" as if there is one for all three. When it says they are "one" in translation from Greek from Aramaic, it means they are one in purpose, not one tripartite entity. I can accept that Godhead is one with three distinct members. But you trinitarians don't say that. You say three in one. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 7, 2018 18:03:05 GMT
It does not say in the Bible there is one god who exists in three persons. There is God the Son praying to God the Father and asking him for guidance. They are different entities. A Son can't be his own Father. I already showed you were it says so (St. Matthew chapter 28, verse 19). No, the Son Is not the Father. The Church does not teach that. The Church teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are 3 Distinct Persons In the One Godhead. I will use the example St. Patrick used. The Shamrock. There are 3 leaves on the shamrock, & yet it is one & the same plant. So it is with the Trinity: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit Are the Leaves in the One Plant (that Is: God Himself). Also, I think you’re missing the overall point. Nobody is questioning what “the church” teaches. Because different Christian churches teach different things based on different interpretations. Trinity is an interpretation of scripture that is taught by the church. It was not something the bible indicates Jesus ever teaching. |
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Post by Cody™ on Sept 7, 2018 18:40:24 GMT
captainbryce LOL Notice also how Jesus is called God in the very scripture you’re appealing to in order to try to disprove that he is God? No one has ever seen God the Father, in his full glory. “ “And the Father who sent me has himself testified on my behalf. You have never heard his voice or seen his form, and you do not have his word abiding in you, because you do not believe him whom he has sent.”John 5:37-38We know what the correct interpretation is through the reaction of the Jews Jesus was talking to. They picked up stones to throw at Him for blasphemy. They knew what he was claiming.
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Post by clusium on Sept 7, 2018 20:00:32 GMT
I already showed you were it says so (St. Matthew chapter 28, verse 19). No, the Son Is not the Father. The Church does not teach that. The Church teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are 3 Distinct Persons In the One Godhead. I will use the example St. Patrick used. The Shamrock. There are 3 leaves on the shamrock, & yet it is one & the same plant. So it is with the Trinity: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit Are the Leaves in the One Plant (that Is: God Himself). Also, I think you’re missing the overall point. Nobody is questioning what “the church” teaches. Because different Christian churches teach different things based on different interpretations. Trinity is an interpretation of scripture that is taught by the church. It was not something the bible indicates Jesus ever teaching. Gospel according to St. John chapter 8, verse 58: "Before Abraham was, I Am." |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 7, 2018 22:46:09 GMT
Also, I think you’re missing the overall point. Nobody is questioning what “the church” teaches. Because different Christian churches teach different things based on different interpretations. Trinity is an interpretation of scripture that is taught by the church. It was not something the bible indicates Jesus ever teaching. Gospel according to St. John chapter 8, verse 58: "Before Abraham was, I Am." Okay, but I already answered that in an earlier post and you didn’t reply. So this tells me that your programming (indoctrination) is just making you repeat yourself when you don’t have a good answer. |
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Post by clusium on Sept 7, 2018 23:22:18 GMT
Gospel according to St. John chapter 8, verse 58: "Before Abraham was, I Am." Okay, but I already answered that in an earlier post and you didn’t reply. So this tells me that your programming (indoctrination) is just making you repeat yourself when you don’t have a good answer. You should also take into account what happened after Christ Said this: The religious leaders all picked up rocks to stone Him for blasphemy for saying that. In Saying "I Am," Christ was Identifying Himself as God. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 8, 2018 1:33:00 GMT
Okay, but I already answered that in an earlier post and you didn’t reply. So this tells me that your programming (indoctrination) is just making you repeat yourself when you don’t have a good answer. You should also take into account what happened after Christ Said this: The religious leaders all picked up rocks to stone Him for blasphemy for saying that. In Saying "I Am," Christ was Identifying Himself as God. What passage are you quoting? I’d need the exact biblical reference to take it into account. |
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Post by clusium on Sept 8, 2018 3:34:05 GMT
You should also take into account what happened after Christ Said this: The religious leaders all picked up rocks to stone Him for blasphemy for saying that. In Saying "I Am," Christ was Identifying Himself as God. What passage are you quoting? I’d need the exact biblical reference to take it into account. Gospel according to St John chapter 8, verses 58 - 59. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 8, 2018 4:05:27 GMT
What passage are you quoting? I’d need the exact biblical reference to take it into account. Gospel according to St John chapter 8, verses 58 - 59. Why can’t you just say “John” like a normal person? Do you really have to write all that crap out every single time?  |
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Post by clusium on Sept 8, 2018 4:45:05 GMT
Gospel according to St John chapter 8, verses 58 - 59. Why can’t you just say “John” like a normal person? Do you really have to write all that crap out every single time? I say " Gospel according to St. John," due to the fact that of all the New Testament writers, St. John has the most works, after St. Paul. He has the Gospel, 3 Epistles, & the Book of Revelation (aka the Apocalypse). |
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Post by clusium on Sept 10, 2018 18:27:35 GMT
Reform, Conservative, Orthodox and Reconstructionist. Explain the differences and most salient points. I sense that Reformed is akin to ethical atheism. Thoughts? How is The Holocaust viewed? There are those who say it's one of the travails and refinements by fire discussed in the Torah. Here's an interesting article for you, Gameboy, that might answer some of the questions, that you posted here: The Jewish Relationship With God |
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Post by gameboy on Sept 11, 2018 2:07:32 GMT
Reform, Conservative, Orthodox and Reconstructionist. Explain the differences and most salient points. I sense that Reformed is akin to ethical atheism. Thoughts? How is The Holocaust viewed? There are those who say it's one of the travails and refinements by fire discussed in the Torah. Here's an interesting article for you, Gameboy, that might answer some of the questions, that you posted here: The Jewish Relationship With GodThanks. Judaism is akin to in nature or is the same "type" of religion as Japanese Shintoism or ancient Greek paganism. It is intrinsically tied to one ethnic and genealogical group and more concerned with the insular affairs of a people and is not about universal promotion and conversion of foreigners. They're not out to save the world, unlike Christians or even Buddhists. |
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Post by clusium on Sept 11, 2018 3:37:29 GMT
Thanks. Judaism is akin to in nature or is the same "type" of religion as Japanese Shintoism or ancient Greek paganism. It is intrinsically tied to one ethnic and genealogical group and more concerned with the insular affairs of a people and is not about universal promotion and conversion of foreigners. They're not out to save the world, unlike Christians or even Buddhists. Yes, & it's also akin in nature to Chinese Confucianism, in that there is no distinction between religious or secular. Hinduism is another religion which it may be comparable to. |
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