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Post by charzhino on Sept 3, 2018 19:00:28 GMT
So a kill count article has come out listing the total body counts in the MCU. Is anyone alarmed by the amount of killing happens in these films, whether it be by the Avengers or from the enemies? The Avengers are supposed to protect people and bring peace but the kill count almost rises in every successive film indicating they are getting worse at their jobs. Some killings you can argue are self defence but to be judge jury and executioner so swiftly, should MCU be more considerate in this apparent licence to kill? hmm maybe general Ross was right that they do need to be kept in check because seemingly everywhere they go there is death and destruction. www.digitalspy.com/movies/feature/g25450/marvel-movie-death-count-mcu-films-ranked-infinity-war/?
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Post by hobowar on Sept 3, 2018 19:27:43 GMT
Because death would cease to exist without the Avengers?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 3, 2018 19:32:27 GMT
I'm fine with the death and destruction.
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Post by hobowar on Sept 3, 2018 19:34:18 GMT
Superman directly killed way more innocent people in Man of Steel than all the Avengers put together.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 3, 2018 19:55:12 GMT
Some people complain about the MCU not having enough deaths and some complain that the MCU has too much deaths. Geeze. Can never please everyone.
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Post by scabab on Sept 3, 2018 20:35:38 GMT
Hmmm, the scale of the conflicts is so big that you'd expect a lot. A thousand dead from the Battle of New York? Out of a population of 8.5 million, light really.
Not that it's particularly a new thing. Dozens of people died in Batman 89 from the Joker gas.
At least in the Ultimate Marvel comic there was that one event where Magneto shifted the Earth which caused a tsunami that flooded New York and killed millions so it's a thing that happens in comics.
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Post by hobowar on Sept 3, 2018 21:45:56 GMT
Some people complain about the MCU not having enough deaths and some complain that the MCU has too much deaths. Geeze. Can never please everyone. Release of Iron Man 3 People on the Internet: Where are the other Avengers, this is stupid. Release of Captain America: Civil War The exact same people on the Internet: There's too many characters, this is stupid. A true message board story.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 4:45:02 GMT
A thousand dead from the Battle of New York? Out of a population of 8.5 million, light really. That's actually a large number considering that the Chitauri had no superpowers and all that was needed to defeat the entire Chitauri army was 1 nuclear missile. If the Avengers had done their job properly, then there shouldn't have been any battle or any casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York when there shouldn't have been any human casualties makes that a really large number of unnecessary human casualties.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 4:49:36 GMT
maybe general Ross was right that they do need to be kept in check because seemingly everywhere they go there is death and destruction. General Ross was 100% right. Any agency or group with that much power needs oversight to keep them in check. But Steve Rogers didn't want any oversight for the Avengers because he wanted unlimited power without any checks on their power. Not even POTUS has unlimited power without any checks on his power. But tyrants and dictators have unlimited power without any checks on their power. And that's exactly what Steve Rogers wants for himself and the Avengers. And all those MCU fans who support Steve Rogers refusal to abide by the Accords are basically supporting tyranny and dictatorship.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 4, 2018 5:19:17 GMT
maybe general Ross was right that they do need to be kept in check because seemingly everywhere they go there is death and destruction. General Ross was 100% right. Any agency or group with that much power needs oversight to keep them in check. But Steve Rogers didn't want any oversight for the Avengers because he wanted unlimited power without any checks on their power. Not even POTUS has unlimited power without any checks on his power. But tyrants and dictators have unlimited power without any checks on their power. And that's exactly what Steve Rogers wants for himself and the Avengers. And all those MCU fans who support Steve Rogers refusal to abide by the Accords are basically supporting tyranny and dictatorship. So why aren't the JLA being held in check?
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 5:35:43 GMT
General Ross was 100% right. Any agency or group with that much power needs oversight to keep them in check. But Steve Rogers didn't want any oversight for the Avengers because he wanted unlimited power without any checks on their power. Not even POTUS has unlimited power without any checks on his power. But tyrants and dictators have unlimited power without any checks on their power. And that's exactly what Steve Rogers wants for himself and the Avengers. And all those MCU fans who support Steve Rogers refusal to abide by the Accords are basically supporting tyranny and dictatorship. So why aren't the JLA being held in check? Because the JLA don't refuse to answer to the people like Steve Rogers does.
In MoS, Superman surrendered himself to the custody of the US Army even though they had no power to force him to. He did that to show that despite being the most powerful person on the planet, he doesn't want to rule over the planet like a dictator and he's willing to answer to the people.
And in BvS, Superman appeared before a Congressional committee when summoned even though they had no power to force him to. Again, he did that to show that he's willing to answer to the people.
Steve Rogers wants to rule over the people like a dictator so Steve rogers would never surrender himself to the custody of the US Army (whom he swore an oath to) because he thinks that since he's more powerful than the people, he should rule over the people like a dictator rather than answer to the people.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 4, 2018 6:07:11 GMT
So why aren't the JLA being held in check? Because the JLA don't refuse to answer to the people like Steve Rogers does.
In MoS, Superman surrendered himself to the custody of the US Army even though they had no power to force him to. He did that to show that despite being the most powerful person on the planet, he doesn't want to rule over the planet like a dictator and he's willing to answer to the people.
And in BvS, Superman appeared before a Congressional committee when summoned even though they had no power to force him to. Again, he did that to show that he's willing to answer to the people.
Steve Rogers wants to rule over the people like a dictator so Steve rogers would never surrender himself to the custody of the US Army (whom he swore an oath to) because he thinks that since he's more powerful than the people, he should rule over the people like a dictator rather than answer to the people.
Yet Superman destroyed a US satellite without provocation. Batman continues to be a vigilante without surrendering himself to the police. Wonder Woman went public at the end of JLA without any support or say so from any official government. Superman continues to do what he does without any official sanction whatsoever. At least Captain America used to work for a recognized government agency. None of the JLA can even claim such.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 6:29:26 GMT
Because the JLA don't refuse to answer to the people like Steve Rogers does.
In MoS, Superman surrendered himself to the custody of the US Army even though they had no power to force him to. He did that to show that despite being the most powerful person on the planet, he doesn't want to rule over the planet like a dictator and he's willing to answer to the people.
And in BvS, Superman appeared before a Congressional committee when summoned even though they had no power to force him to. Again, he did that to show that he's willing to answer to the people.
Steve Rogers wants to rule over the people like a dictator so Steve rogers would never surrender himself to the custody of the US Army (whom he swore an oath to) because he thinks that since he's more powerful than the people, he should rule over the people like a dictator rather than answer to the people.
Batman continues to be a vigilante without surrendering himself to the police. Batman operates with the permission of the GCPD. When the GCPD flashes the Bat-signal in the sky, that means they're asking for batman's help. It's similar to how in the Old West, when a Sheriff needed to bring in a gang of outlaws, the Sheriff often asks for volunteers to form a posse and the Sheriff would deputize the men who volunteered. So when those men went after the outlaws, the were doing so with the permission of the Sheriff.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Sept 4, 2018 6:34:07 GMT
Yeah they made a big deal about Loki killing (um he is an immigrant? Hello? Cultural relativism?) but the Avengers are a bunch of maniacs. Maybe Thanos did the universe a favor by killing half of them. Good riddance.
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Post by scabab on Sept 4, 2018 12:22:52 GMT
That's actually a large number considering that the Chitauri had no superpowers and all that was needed to defeat the entire Chitauri army was 1 nuclear missile. If the Avengers had done their job properly, then there shouldn't have been any battle or any casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York when there shouldn't have been any human casualties makes that a really large number of unnecessary human casualties. They still had guns and there was still these massive creatures too crashing about. They also didn't have the Nuke from the beginning.
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Post by dazz on Sept 4, 2018 12:46:40 GMT
Batman continues to be a vigilante without surrendering himself to the police. Batman operates with the permission of the GCPD. When the GCPD flashes the Bat-signal in the sky, that means they're asking for batman's help. It's similar to how in the Old West, when a Sheriff needed to bring in a gang of outlaws, the Sheriff often asks for volunteers to form a posse and the Sheriff would deputize the men who volunteered. So when those men went after the outlaws, the were doing so with the permission of the Sheriff.
That then only excuses his behaviour whilst working on cases brought to him by the GCPD, and only within the confines of their jurisdiction, doesn't excuse Batman's antics instigated without their blessing or outside their borders, also doesn't really excuse his actions, simply explains why he isn't pursued by the GCPD, he isn't legally allowed to act as he does, they simply choose not to enforce the law with him for the time being so long as he is an asset to them, state or federal officials even other city officials should they choose to press the issue could force the GCPD to enforce the law with him also.
If Batman is deputised he'd still need to act within the confines of the law and as a law enforcement officer, he would not be allowed to beat suspects, hang them off of buildings, break in, steal, or any other number of things we see him doing, people just turn a blind eye is all, he's still a criminal.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 4, 2018 13:50:07 GMT
A thousand dead from the Battle of New York? Out of a population of 8.5 million, light really. That's actually a large number considering that the Chitauri had no superpowers and all that was needed to defeat the entire Chitauri army was 1 nuclear missile. If the Avengers had done their job properly, then there shouldn't have been any battle or any casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York when there shouldn't have been any human casualties makes that a really large number of unnecessary human casualties. Just think if the US government would have it's way the death total would have been millions and new York City would be nothing but a nuclear wasteland.
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Post by charzhino on Sept 4, 2018 14:12:47 GMT
That's actually a large number considering that the Chitauri had no superpowers and all that was needed to defeat the entire Chitauri army was 1 nuclear missile. If the Avengers had done their job properly, then there shouldn't have been any battle or any casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York when there shouldn't have been any human casualties makes that a really large number of unnecessary human casualties. Just think if the US government would have it's way the death total would have been millions and new York City would be nothing but a nuclear wasteland. The nuke still destroyed a large incoming fleet in space. The Avengers got lucky they closed the portal at the last second. If they hadnt and the portal remained open then nukes where the only alternative and the government would've been forced to take that chance.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 4, 2018 14:28:05 GMT
Just think if the US government would have it's way the death total would have been millions and new York City would be nothing but a nuclear wasteland. The nuke still destroyed a large incoming fleet in space. The Avengers got lucky they closed the portal at the last second. If they hadnt and the portal remained open then nukes where the only alternative and the government would've been forced to take that chance. That's because it was used wisely. If both Shield and the US government worked together with the Avengers, no one would have a issue with it. Again if they had it their way millions of innocent people would have been vaporized with other potential millions suffering from the fallout. People bitch about Superman, The Avengers and Batman killing. But no one had a problem with carelessly nuking a heavily populated city?
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Post by charzhino on Sept 4, 2018 14:46:10 GMT
The nuke still destroyed a large incoming fleet in space. The Avengers got lucky they closed the portal at the last second. If they hadnt and the portal remained open then nukes where the only alternative and the government would've been forced to take that chance. That's because it was used wisely. If both Shield and the US government worked together with the Avengers, no one would have a issue with it. Again if they had it their way millions of innocent people would have been vaporized with other potential millions suffering from the fallout. People bitch about Superman, The Avengers and Batman killing. But no one had a problem with carelessly nuking a heavily populated city? To be honest I think if this happened in the real world the response would be the same. If a hostile alien army landed in new york tomorrow, the first response would be conventional military/army attack just like the Avengers did. But once they realize its not enough to stop the threat the U.S government will not hesitate to nuke the threat to try and contain the area at the expense of millions.
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