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Post by dazz on Sept 4, 2018 15:31:12 GMT
That's because it was used wisely. If both Shield and the US government worked together with the Avengers, no one would have a issue with it. Again if they had it their way millions of innocent people would have been vaporized with other potential millions suffering from the fallout. People bitch about Superman, The Avengers and Batman killing. But no one had a problem with carelessly nuking a heavily populated city? To be honest I think if this happened in the real world the response would be the same. If a hostile alien army landed in new york tomorrow, the first response would be conventional military/army attack just like the Avengers did. But once they realize its not enough to stop the threat the U.S government will not hesitate to nuke the threat to try and contain the area at the expense of millions. Since when is a dude in a battle suit, 2 spies, a near 100 year old super soldier, a big green monster and a lightning god considered conventional military ordinates?
They never even tried conventional weaponry the governments first action was "Ah shit, nuke em!!".
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Sept 4, 2018 16:12:58 GMT
Batman continues to be a vigilante without surrendering himself to the police. Batman operates with the permission of the GCPD. When the GCPD flashes the Bat-signal in the sky, that means they're asking for batman's help. It's similar to how in the Old West, when a Sheriff needed to bring in a gang of outlaws, the Sheriff often asks for volunteers to form a posse and the Sheriff would deputize the men who volunteered. So when those men went after the outlaws, the were doing so with the permission of the Sheriff.
You are a dumbass.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 4, 2018 16:13:07 GMT
Batman continues to be a vigilante without surrendering himself to the police. Batman operates with the permission of the GCPD. When the GCPD flashes the Bat-signal in the sky, that means they're asking for batman's help. It's similar to how in the Old West, when a Sheriff needed to bring in a gang of outlaws, the Sheriff often asks for volunteers to form a posse and the Sheriff would deputize the men who volunteered. So when those men went after the outlaws, the were doing so with the permission of the Sheriff.
I would say it's more like the GCPD decriminalized Vigilantism like some cities, counties and states do Pot. What he does is still highly illegal, but they don't enforce it. Which brings up weird precedence for evidence and Batman's crimes. If he does operate like you say under the jurisdiction of the GCPD all evidence he collects illegally wouldn't be admissible in court. If he is an agent of GCPD he would need warrants to enter places. No chain of evidence is kept etc. There would be more wiggle room if not seen as a agent of GCPD if his interactions with criminals is also seen as a crime. If one gang in their commission of a crime exposes the evidence of another gang's crime then all is good. So legally GCPD would still have to classify Batman as a criminal not part of the GCPD.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 19:28:34 GMT
That's actually a large number considering that the Chitauri had no superpowers and all that was needed to defeat the entire Chitauri army was 1 nuclear missile. If the Avengers had done their job properly, then there shouldn't have been any battle or any casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York when there shouldn't have been any human casualties makes that a really large number of unnecessary human casualties. They still had guns and there was still these massive creatures too crashing about. But none of those guns or massive creatures would've even made it to Earth if the Avengers had done their job properly and simply gone into space and destroyed the Chitauri mother ship before the Chitauri could invade. Many MCU fans have criticized Superman for taking the battle against Zod to Smallville. So by that same standard, the Avengers should be criticized for letting the Chitauri invade and then battling the Chitauri in Manhatten (where there are millions of civilians) rather than going into space and battling the Chitauri in space (where there are no civilians). If the Avengers had gone into space and battled the Chitauri in space, then there wouldn't have been any human casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York is a huge number of dead considering that there shouldn't have been any human casualties if the Avengers had simply done their job properly. Wasn't that Nick Fury's reason for forming the Avengers? To get the job done and save lives? Well, the Avengers didn't do their job properly and many civilian lives were lost because of the Avengers' failure to do their job properly. They also didn't have the Nuke from the beginning. Superman doesn't have a nuclear missile. But Superman could've gone into space and destroyed the Chitauri mother ship and ended the invasion before the Chitauri got to Earth. Are you saying that the Avengers don't have the equivalent firepower or weaponry of 1 nuclear missile? If so, then why do they call themselves "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" when they're mighty at all?
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 19:31:28 GMT
That's actually a large number considering that the Chitauri had no superpowers and all that was needed to defeat the entire Chitauri army was 1 nuclear missile. If the Avengers had done their job properly, then there shouldn't have been any battle or any casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York when there shouldn't have been any human casualties makes that a really large number of unnecessary human casualties. Just think if the US government would have it's way the death total would have been millions and new York City would be nothing but a nuclear wasteland. Just think if the US government hadn't launched that nuclear missile, the Avengers wouldn't have been able to destroy the Chitauri ship and defeat the Chitauri so the death toll would've been millions and New York City would be nothing but a massive graveyard.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 19:41:10 GMT
The nuke still destroyed a large incoming fleet in space. The Avengers got lucky they closed the portal at the last second. If they hadnt and the portal remained open then nukes where the only alternative and the government would've been forced to take that chance. People bitch about Superman, The Avengers and Batman killing. But no one had a problem with carelessly nuking a heavily populated city? If that was the last resort to defeating the Chitauri (and it certainly was, given that the Avengers just stood by for half an hour doing nothing but cracking jokes and 1-liners while the Chitauri were invading and killing people) and saving the planet, then most people wouldn't have a problem with it. It's like if the passengers on Flight 93 couldn't bring down the hijacked plane and the US Air Force had shot down the hijacked plane, most people wouldn't have a problem with the US Air Force shooting down a commercial passenger jet with civilians on board to prevent the hijacked plane from being used as a weapon by terrorists.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 19:44:37 GMT
Batman operates with the permission of the GCPD. When the GCPD flashes the Bat-signal in the sky, that means they're asking for batman's help. It's similar to how in the Old West, when a Sheriff needed to bring in a gang of outlaws, the Sheriff often asks for volunteers to form a posse and the Sheriff would deputize the men who volunteered. So when those men went after the outlaws, the were doing so with the permission of the Sheriff.
I would say it's more like the GCPD decriminalized Vigilantism like some cities, counties and states do Pot. What he does is still highly illegal, but they don't enforce it. Which brings up weird precedence for evidence and Batman's crimes. If he does operate like you say under the jurisdiction of the GCPD all evidence he collects illegally wouldn't be admissible in court. If he is an agent of GCPD he would need warrants to enter places. No chain of evidence is kept etc. There would be more wiggle room if not seen as a agent of GCPD if his interactions with criminals is also seen as a crime. If one gang in their commission of a crime exposes the evidence of another gang's crime then all is good. So legally GCPD would still have to classify Batman as a criminal not part of the GCPD. Yes, they wouldn't officially call him a "deputy". He would be more like a confidential informant. Cops use confidential informants all the time.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 4, 2018 19:47:44 GMT
They still had guns and there was still these massive creatures too crashing about. But none of those guns or massive creatures would've even made it to Earth if the Avengers had done their job properly and simply gone into space and destroyed the Chitauri mother ship before the Chitauri could invade. Many MCU fans have criticized Superman for taking the battle against Zod to Smallville. So by that same standard, the Avengers should be criticized for letting the Chitauri invade and then battling the Chitauri in Manhatten (where there are millions of civilians) rather than going into space and battling the Chitauri in space (where there are no civilians). If the Avengers had gone into space and battled the Chitauri in space, then there wouldn't have been any human casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York is a huge number of dead considering that there shouldn't have been any human casualties if the Avengers had simply done their job properly. Wasn't that Nick Fury's reason for forming the Avengers? To get the job done and save lives? Well, the Avengers didn't do their job properly and many civilian lives were lost because of the Avengers' failure to do their job properly. They also didn't have the Nuke from the beginning. Superman doesn't have a nuclear missile. But Superman could've gone into space and destroyed the Chitauri mother ship and ended the invasion before the Chitauri got to Earth. Are you saying that the Avengers don't have the equivalent firepower or weaponry of 1 nuclear missile? If so, then why do they call themselves "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" when they're mighty at all? We know you stole the IP so maybe you missed some things. The Avengers didn't know where the Chitari were until the portal opened and they came through. Maybe your illegal copy's resolution was low so maybe you didn't see that the suit Ironman was working didn't work for long in the other part of space. Your illegal copy audio might've be low quality, but Ironman couldn't take out the armor of the Leviathans. Hulk and Thor could take them out, but being surprised by them coming it would take a while for them to take them out. You've only watched 4 movies legally so maybe you don't know that most of the Avengers can't survive in space. Again I don't know how much information you know because of you stealing movies, but Dr. Selvik said the Cube wanted to show them a new Universe. So the the Chitari may not even been in our Universe until the portal opened. Thor knew that Loki had an Army but he didn't know from where he got them or where they are. Again, I don't know how much you've missed stealing these movies so I don't know if you know but there isn't any psychics on the Team. And if you actually watched an non-illegal copy you would see the portal opens and then the army came through.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 4, 2018 19:49:19 GMT
I would say it's more like the GCPD decriminalized Vigilantism like some cities, counties and states do Pot. What he does is still highly illegal, but they don't enforce it. Which brings up weird precedence for evidence and Batman's crimes. If he does operate like you say under the jurisdiction of the GCPD all evidence he collects illegally wouldn't be admissible in court. If he is an agent of GCPD he would need warrants to enter places. No chain of evidence is kept etc. There would be more wiggle room if not seen as a agent of GCPD if his interactions with criminals is also seen as a crime. If one gang in their commission of a crime exposes the evidence of another gang's crime then all is good. So legally GCPD would still have to classify Batman as a criminal not part of the GCPD. Yes, they wouldn't officially call him a "deputy". He would be more like a confidential informant. Cops use confidential informants all the time. So a criminal that they use.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 4, 2018 19:50:06 GMT
But none of those guns or massive creatures would've even made it to Earth if the Avengers had done their job properly and simply gone into space and destroyed the Chitauri mother ship before the Chitauri could invade. Many MCU fans have criticized Superman for taking the battle against Zod to Smallville. So by that same standard, the Avengers should be criticized for letting the Chitauri invade and then battling the Chitauri in Manhatten (where there are millions of civilians) rather than going into space and battling the Chitauri in space (where there are no civilians). If the Avengers had gone into space and battled the Chitauri in space, then there wouldn't have been any human casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York is a huge number of dead considering that there shouldn't have been any human casualties if the Avengers had simply done their job properly. Wasn't that Nick Fury's reason for forming the Avengers? To get the job done and save lives? Well, the Avengers didn't do their job properly and many civilian lives were lost because of the Avengers' failure to do their job properly. Superman doesn't have a nuclear missile. But Superman could've gone into space and destroyed the Chitauri mother ship and ended the invasion before the Chitauri got to Earth. Are you saying that the Avengers don't have the equivalent firepower or weaponry of 1 nuclear missile? If so, then why do they call themselves "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" when they're mighty at all? most of the Avengers can't survive in space They can't? Then why did Nick Fury even form the Avengers when they're so incompetent?
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 4, 2018 19:59:10 GMT
most of the Avengers can't survive in space They can't? Then why did Nick Fury even form the Avengers when they're so incompetent? Man your illegal copy must've had horrible audio. He didn't just form them because of threats from space, but because the world was filling up with people who couldn't be matched. Think about what would've happened if he didn't. The World Sec. Council launches the nuke. The Cube is surrounded by a shield made of pure energy that JARVIS says can't be breached. Did your illegal copy allow you to hear that? Considering the force of the Nuclear bomb is just matter turned to energy means the cube and portal machine would've been protected. Meaning the portal would stay open. There is no evidence that the mother ship would've been damaged in its other Universe. Meaning they would continue to come through. How bad was your illegal copy?
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Sept 4, 2018 20:15:05 GMT
So a kill count article has come out listing the total body counts in the MCU. Is anyone alarmed by the amount of killing happens in these films, whether it be by the Avengers or from the enemies? The Avengers are supposed to protect people and bring peace but the kill count almost rises in every successive film indicating they are getting worse at their jobs. Some killings you can argue are self defence but to be judge jury and executioner so swiftly, should MCU be more considerate in this apparent licence to kill? hmm maybe general Ross was right that they do need to be kept in check because seemingly everywhere they go there is death and destruction. www.digitalspy.com/movies/feature/g25450/marvel-movie-death-count-mcu-films-ranked-infinity-war/?It's collateral damage and it makes sense too because the Avengers aren't perfect and it's ridiculous that people have a problem with that. And it's something DC hasn't figured out either. Snyder tried to get around that by having fights happen in "conveniently empty" places" but it just doesn't work. But the killing has been challenged by the world with Scarlett Witch. She was inexperienced and didn't think before she acted and while it saved some on the ground it killed others in the building. And that was a plot point of Civil War and the nail in the coffin essentially for the Avengers to be operating freely. So the issue of the damage the Avengers cause is directly challenged. As for the Avengers themselves killing; Cap is a soldier. I don't think he would directly kill someone if it could be avoided, but by the same token, he may do it if necessary because again, he's a soldier. Hawkeye and Black Widow are both assassins. It was never established Iron Man doesn't kill or has problems with it. He killed terrorists in the first Iron Man. Thor is a God who doesn't necessarily have to abide by Earth's rules. Not to mention he and Asgard were helping defend earth and the universe. Hulk is a tricky one but it's almost a plot point all the time that Banner doesn't want to be Hulk in public and some of his rampages are a result of someone else provoking/manipulating/controling him (Scarlett Witch). But when he's in control of the Hulk, while he does cause probably the most collateral damage out of the Avengers, it's never purposely. But like the others, it's never really been established he doesn't kill.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Sept 4, 2018 20:16:57 GMT
most of the Avengers can't survive in space They can't? Then why did Nick Fury even form the Avengers when they're so incompetent? Were you dropped on your head alot as a child?
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Post by hobowar on Sept 4, 2018 21:09:59 GMT
most of the Avengers can't survive in space They can't? Then why did Nick Fury even form the Avengers when they're so incompetent? You are as thick as shit.
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Post by scabab on Sept 4, 2018 22:19:49 GMT
But none of those guns or massive creatures would've even made it to Earth if the Avengers had done their job properly and simply gone into space and destroyed the Chitauri mother ship before the Chitauri could invade. The Avengers were scattered at the time after the attack on the Helicarrier. They also didn't know about the portal until it was launched and they didn't know about the Mothership being on the other side of the portal until Iron Man went through it. They did, they saved millions of people. The whole planet really. Superman wouldn't have known about the Mothership ahead of time. It wasn't that the Chitauri "got to Earth" and then started invading. Loki used the Tessarect to open a Portal between New York and wherever the Chitauri happened to be and then they started to pour through it. Superman could have probably stopped the ship earlier than The Avengers because he's faster and more powerful plus he can breathe in space but he couldn't have stopped it beforehand no. Well that's what they're known as in the comics so it was a line brought over for the movie. Thor might have that kind of power but he was preoccupied with Loki. Captain America just has a shield. Hawkeye has a bow and arrow. Black Widow has a set of handguns. They're the mightiest heroes on the planet. A Nuke isn't a hero, it's a weapon.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 5, 2018 3:48:36 GMT
But none of those guns or massive creatures would've even made it to Earth if the Avengers had done their job properly and simply gone into space and destroyed the Chitauri mother ship before the Chitauri could invade. The Avengers were scattered at the time after the attack on the Helicarrier. They also didn't know about the portal until it was launched and they didn't know about the Mothership being on the other side of the portal until Iron Man went through it. So when the Avengers saw the portal and the Chitauri coming through the portal, why didn't the Avengers just go through the portal and battle the Chitauri on the other side of the portal, where there wouldn't be any human casualties? Why did the Avengers just stand around doing nothing but cracking jokes and 1-liners for half an hour and waiting for the Chitauri to come through the portal so the battle would take place in Manhattan, where there are millions of civilians? They did, they saved millions of people. The whole planet really. Not really. The Chitauri had no superpowers at all and all it took was 1 nuclear missile from the US military to defeat the entire Chitauri army. So given the fact that several countries have nuclear missiles (more than 1 in fact), the Chitauri were really no threat at all to the planet, just Manhattan. And if the Avengers had done their job properly and battled the Chitauri on the other side of the portal, then the Chitauri would've been no threat at all to New York city and any civilians.
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 5, 2018 5:24:59 GMT
The Avengers were scattered at the time after the attack on the Helicarrier. They also didn't know about the portal until it was launched and they didn't know about the Mothership being on the other side of the portal until Iron Man went through it. So when the Avengers saw the portal and the Chitauri coming through the portal, why didn't the Avengers just go through the portal and battle the Chitauri on the other side of the portal, where there wouldn't be any human casualties? Why did the Avengers just stand around doing nothing but cracking jokes and 1-liners for half an hour and waiting for the Chitauri to come through the portal so the battle would take place in Manhattan, where there are millions of civilians? They did, they saved millions of people. The whole planet really. Not really. The Chitauri had no superpowers at all and all it took was 1 nuclear missile from the US military to defeat the entire Chitauri army. So given the fact that several countries have nuclear missiles (more than 1 in fact), the Chitauri were really no threat at all to the planet, just Manhattan. And if the Avengers had done their job properly and battled the Chitauri on the other side of the portal, then the Chitauri would've been no threat at all to New York city and any civilians. Do you think all superheroes can survive in outer space?
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Post by damngumby on Sept 5, 2018 9:27:20 GMT
A thousand dead from the Battle of New York? Out of a population of 8.5 million, light really. That's actually a large number considering that the Chitauri had no superpowers and all that was needed to defeat the entire Chitauri army was 1 nuclear missile. If the Avengers had done their job properly, then there shouldn't have been any battle or any casualties. So a thousand dead from the Battle of New York when there shouldn't have been any human casualties makes that a really large number of unnecessary human casualties. Hmmm ... perhaps we should coin a new phrase - DC-Fan stupid.
Extremely idiotic posts can be quickly dismissed by saying, “That’s just DC-Fan stupid.” Everyone on this forum will immediately know what that means.
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Post by charzhino on Sept 5, 2018 9:45:08 GMT
To be honest I think if this happened in the real world the response would be the same. If a hostile alien army landed in new york tomorrow, the first response would be conventional military/army attack just like the Avengers did. But once they realize its not enough to stop the threat the U.S government will not hesitate to nuke the threat to try and contain the area at the expense of millions. Since when is a dude in a battle suit, 2 spies, a near 100 year old super soldier, a big green monster and a lightning god considered conventional military ordinates?
They never even tried conventional weaponry the governments first action was "Ah shit, nuke em!!".
The government called for the national guard and military whilst the Avengers were fighting. But when the council realised that the Avengers couldn't stop the army they had to launch the nuke. The Avengers couldn't close the portal or defeat the Chitauri outright, they need help. And ironically, its the nuke that actually saves New York. After its redirected into the mothership, the aliens on earth all ''disable'' and die as the mothership explodes kinda like what happens in Independence Day. So without the nuke NY would still have suffered more. Unintentional but worked in the Avengers favour with quick thinking from Stark.
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Post by scabab on Sept 5, 2018 10:36:28 GMT
So when the Avengers saw the portal and the Chitauri coming through the portal, why didn't the Avengers just go through the portal and battle the Chitauri on the other side of the portal, where there wouldn't be any human casualties? Lack of an ability to do so, obviously characters like Hulk, Captain America, Hawkeye and Black Widow can not fly nor at least can the latter three breathe in space. Iron Man was shown to lose power almost straight after going through the portal so he couldn't have done anything. Which only leaves Thor, who can travel through space in a straight line using the bifrost but that's all they've shown and as I said he was dealing with Loki anyway. And the one Nuke they actually used was going to destroy Manhattan and end millions of lives. They'd have been able to stop those Chitauri but then others could have come through after that.
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