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Post by James on Nov 15, 2018 21:59:36 GMT
Wow, pretty statistical. Though I find it hard to see why it’s a bad thing. People have to die in their movies. It isn’t always gonna be lovey-dovey.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 15, 2018 22:15:27 GMT
Pretty sure the Avengers were not the ones responsible for most of those deaths, as we clearly see the chitauri opening fire on civilians. Pretty sure Superman was responsible for none of those deaths as we clearly see that he was at the OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD in the Indian ocean SAVING THE WHOLE PLANET from that stupid machine with the dumb ass tentacle things that also almost killed him.
run on sentence
Pretty sure Superman was responsible for quite a number of property damage that most probably resulted in numerous civilian casualties.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Nov 16, 2018 3:44:34 GMT
And they wouldn't have needed to chase Crossbones around if he didn't steal chemical weaponry. Or are you saying they should have let Crossbones just steal whatever he wanted? I'm saying their 1st priority should've been to minimize civilian casualties, which is the whole point of this discussion. You claim that the Avengers always try to minimize civilian casualties but the reckless actions of Cap's team chasing Crossbones through a crowded market in the middle of the day debunk your claim. Since you MCU fans are slow at getting things, I'll ask you a couple of questions: Armed bank robbers try to rob a bank but the cops show up before robbers can get out of the bank. So the robbers barricade the doors and are inside the bank with hostages. Do you think the 1st thing the cops should do is just storm into the bank with guns and smoke grenades and try to take down the bank robbers with all the hostages inside? Or should the cops try to negotiate with the bank robbers and try to get some hostages released before taking aggressive action such as storming the bank with all the hostages inside? Cap's team chasing Crossbones through a crowded market in the middle of the day when there were many civilians was reckless and caused maximum civilian casualties. That's why Secretary Ross and the UN wanted the Avengers to sign the Accords, in order to prevent future reckless actions that maximize civilian casualties. But Cap refused to sign the Accords because he wanted to be a tyrant without any oversight or limit on his powers. You do realize the wrecklessness from Cap and co. was the whole point of the film. I don't know why you want every hero to be flawless and perfect in every way. It's just boring and dull. Cap was distracted because Rumlow mentioned Bucky. And Wanda isn't as experienced as the rest of the Avengers and she just quickly reacted without really thinking. Those are flaws. Everyone has them. It's why Wonder Woman and Superman can be boring when they have no flaws to their characters.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 16, 2018 4:53:05 GMT
I'm saying their 1st priority should've been to minimize civilian casualties, which is the whole point of this discussion. You claim that the Avengers always try to minimize civilian casualties but the reckless actions of Cap's team chasing Crossbones through a crowded market in the middle of the day debunk your claim. Since you MCU fans are slow at getting things, I'll ask you a couple of questions: Armed bank robbers try to rob a bank but the cops show up before robbers can get out of the bank. So the robbers barricade the doors and are inside the bank with hostages. Do you think the 1st thing the cops should do is just storm into the bank with guns and smoke grenades and try to take down the bank robbers with all the hostages inside? Or should the cops try to negotiate with the bank robbers and try to get some hostages released before taking aggressive action such as storming the bank with all the hostages inside? Cap's team chasing Crossbones through a crowded market in the middle of the day when there were many civilians was reckless and caused maximum civilian casualties. That's why Secretary Ross and the UN wanted the Avengers to sign the Accords, in order to prevent future reckless actions that maximize civilian casualties. But Cap refused to sign the Accords because he wanted to be a tyrant without any oversight or limit on his powers. Wanda isn't as experienced as the rest of the Avengers and she just quickly reacted without really thinking. If she's too inexperienced and acts without thinking, then she shouldn't have been out in the field. That's just bad decision-making by the team leader and that bad decision-making cost many civilians their lives. And that's what the Accords were for. To prevent bad decision-making by the Avengers, resulting in inexperienced Avengers being out in the field and acting without thinking, causing the deaths of many civilians. But Steve Rogers didn't want to sign the Accords because Steve Rogers wanted to be a tyrant with no oversight and no limitation on his power and authority. I don't know why you want every hero to be flawless and perfect in every way. Because that's how heroes are supposed to be. People don't want to read about ordinary people doing ordinary things. People want to read about extraordinary heroes doing extraordinary things. That's why throughout history, the greatest heroes have been not ordinary people but great figures who have been head and shoulders above ordinary people, from Hercules and Perseus in ancient times to King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table in medieval times to Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in modern times. That's also why people watch professional sports. Nobody wants to watch a playground basketball game with ordinary people playing. People want to watch an NBA game with the best players, like Michael Jordan or LeBron James. And that's also why perfection is idolized and revered in sports. When a pitcher pitches a perfect game, it's celebrated as an epic achievement. The 17-0 perfect season by the 1972 Dolphins is still revered as the greatest season in NFL history because they achieved perfection. Michael Jordan, who was a perfect in the NBA Finals, is considered by most people to be the greatest basketball player ever. And Joe Montana, who was a perfect in Super Bowls and never even threw an interception in a Super Bowl, is considered the greatest QB in NFL history.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 16, 2018 4:59:26 GMT
Wanda isn't as experienced as the rest of the Avengers and she just quickly reacted without really thinking. If she's too inexperienced and acts without thinking, then she shouldn't have been out in the field. That's just bad decision-making by the team leader and that bad decision-making cost many civilians their lives. And that's what the Accords were for. To prevent bad decision-making by the Avengers, resulting in inexperienced Avengers being out in the field and acting without thinking, causing the deaths of many civilians. But Steve Rogers didn't want to sign the Accords because Steve Rogers wanted to be a tyrant with no oversight and no limitation on his power and authority. I don't know why you want every hero to be flawless and perfect in every way. Because that's how heroes are supposed to be. People don't want to read about ordinary people doing ordinary things. People want to read about extraordinary heroes doing extraordinary things. That's why throughout history, the greatest heroes have been not ordinary people but great figures who have been head and shoulders above ordinary people, from Hercules and Perseus in ancient times to King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table in medieval times to Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in modern times. That's also why people watch professional sports. Nobody wants to watch a playground basketball game with ordinary people playing. People want to watch an NBA game with the best players, like Michael Jordan or LeBron James. And that's also why perfection is idolized and revered in sports. When a pitcher pitches a perfect game, it's celebrated as an epic achievement. The 17-0 perfect season by the 1972 Dolphins is still revered as the greatest season in NFL history because they achieved perfection. Michael Jordan, who was a perfect in the NBA Finals, is considered by most people to be the greatest basketball player ever. And Joe Montana, who was a perfect in Super Bowls and never even threw an interception in a Super Bowl, is considered the greatest QB in NFL history. ^ troll
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 16, 2018 5:31:32 GMT
You guys replying and quoting DC-FAN is the only way I can his posts. The ignore option needs to be better. So as a personal favor to me how about not quoting him in your reply. You can cut the lines of his barely coherent ideas and justifications and just use that in your reply. I probably don't deserve that favor, but it will be apreciated. (I know some other troll will do nothing but quote DC-Fan's post just to troll. This is a risk just posting for a favor. Hopefully I am wrong.)
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Nov 16, 2018 7:29:34 GMT
Wanda isn't as experienced as the rest of the Avengers and she just quickly reacted without really thinking. If she's too inexperienced and acts without thinking, then she shouldn't have been out in the field. That's just bad decision-making by the team leader and that bad decision-making cost many civilians their lives. And that's what the Accords were for. To prevent bad decision-making by the Avengers, resulting in inexperienced Avengers being out in the field and acting without thinking, causing the deaths of many civilians. But Steve Rogers didn't want to sign the Accords because Steve Rogers wanted to be a tyrant with no oversight and no limitation on his power and authority. I don't know why you want every hero to be flawless and perfect in every way. Because that's how heroes are supposed to be. People don't want to read about ordinary people doing ordinary things. People want to read about extraordinary heroes doing extraordinary things. That's why throughout history, the greatest heroes have been not ordinary people but great figures who have been head and shoulders above ordinary people, from Hercules and Perseus in ancient times to King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table in medieval times to Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in modern times. That's also why people watch professional sports. Nobody wants to watch a playground basketball game with ordinary people playing. People want to watch an NBA game with the best players, like Michael Jordan or LeBron James. And that's also why perfection is idolized and revered in sports. When a pitcher pitches a perfect game, it's celebrated as an epic achievement. The 17-0 perfect season by the 1972 Dolphins is still revered as the greatest season in NFL history because they achieved perfection. Michael Jordan, who was a perfect in the NBA Finals, is considered by most people to be the greatest basketball player ever. And Joe Montana, who was a perfect in Super Bowls and never even threw an interception in a Super Bowl, is considered the greatest QB in NFL history. Again, having your hero flawless without making mistakes is boring. It doesn't create conflict or anything interesting.
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Post by Vassaggo on Nov 16, 2018 12:31:56 GMT
You guys replying and quoting DC-FAN is the only way I can his posts. The ignore option needs to be better. So as a personal favor to me how about not quoting him in your reply. You can cut the lines of his barely coherent ideas and justifications and just use that in your reply. I probably don't deserve that favor, but it will be apreciated. (I know some other troll will do nothing but quote DC-Fan's post just to troll. This is a risk just posting for a favor. Hopefully I am wrong.) I hope no one took this completely serious. It's half serious and Half silly. I typed it out with tongue in cheek. I did have to block DC-Fan because I got tired of his trolling, but I wouldn't expect everybody to not use the quote button. Serious or Silly I was expecting someone to start quoting all of DC-Fans post though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 12:46:15 GMT
"Superheroes don't kill people.... people kill people."
Hold on, that doesn't work like it does for other things...
Crap.
"Avengers don't kill people.... superheroes kill people!"
Not much better, innit
Well hell, carry on about whatever you all are going on about.
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Post by kuatorises on Nov 16, 2018 13:11:54 GMT
Is this a real post? I mean, is this supposed to be a real conversation about the dangers of superheros when left unchecked or is it about the dangers of the Avengers; and NOT say....The Justice League?
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 16, 2018 15:38:02 GMT
I'm saying their 1st priority should've been to minimize civilian casualties, which is the whole point of this discussion. You claim that the Avengers always try to minimize civilian casualties but the reckless actions of Cap's team chasing Crossbones through a crowded market in the middle of the day debunk your claim. Since you MCU fans are slow at getting things, I'll ask you a couple of questions: Armed bank robbers try to rob a bank but the cops show up before robbers can get out of the bank. So the robbers barricade the doors and are inside the bank with hostages. Do you think the 1st thing the cops should do is just storm into the bank with guns and smoke grenades and try to take down the bank robbers with all the hostages inside? Or should the cops try to negotiate with the bank robbers and try to get some hostages released before taking aggressive action such as storming the bank with all the hostages inside? Cap's team chasing Crossbones through a crowded market in the middle of the day when there were many civilians was reckless and caused maximum civilian casualties. That's why Secretary Ross and the UN wanted the Avengers to sign the Accords, in order to prevent future reckless actions that maximize civilian casualties. But Cap refused to sign the Accords because he wanted to be a tyrant without any oversight or limit on his powers. Not the same situation. Taking the time to negotiate with bank robbers over a small number of hostages is not the same as letting someone possibly get away with a WMD capable of killing thousands. They had to weigh the risks and possible outcomes. What's more ridiculous is why they were so chastised over these things You don't let them get away. You track them and wait until you can move in with little or no risk to civilian lives. That's what the FBI did when they went after John Dillinger. Dillinger was #1 on the FBI's Most Wanted List. The FBI knew DIillinger was inside that theater. Sure, they could've stormed into the theater with dozens of armed FBI agents, but if Dillinger had a weapon and they got into a shootout, civilians would've most likely been killed. But they didn't let Dillinger get away either. They waited outside the theater for Dillinger to come out and for the crowd to disperse and then they moved in on Dillinger. They got Dillinger without any civilian casualties. That's how to apprehend a dangerous criminal while minimizing civilian casualties, not the way that Cap's team recklessly disregarded civilian lives. And yes, they should be chastised. When cops act recklessly and get civilians killed, somebody gets reprimanded or suspended or demoted or fired (or at worst, even prosecuted). Cops are supposed be trusted by the people to protect and serve so cops have a responsibility to protect civilian lives and when cops act recklessly and endanger civilian lives, they have to be held accountable. The Avengers want to be "heroes" but they don't want the responsibility of protecting civilian lives and they want to be able to act recklessly without regard for civilian lives and not be held accountable. That's why Cap didn't want to sign the Accords. Because Cap wanted to be a tyrant with no oversight or limitation on his power and authority.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 16, 2018 15:39:24 GMT
The bomb wouldn't have gone off if they hadn't chased Crossbones through a crowded market in the middle of the day when there were many civilians around. The only reason Crossbones set off the bomb was because he was corned by Cap's team. That shows how reckless Cap's team was to chase Crossbones through a crowded market in the middle of the day when there were many civilians around. So basically let Crossbones steal a biological weapon? You don't let them get away. You track them and wait until you can move in with little or no risk to civilian lives. That's what the FBI did when they went after John Dillinger. Dillinger was #1 on the FBI's Most Wanted List. The FBI knew DIillinger was inside that theater. Sure, they could've stormed into the theater with dozens of armed FBI agents, but if Dillinger had a weapon and they got into a shootout, civilians would've most likely been killed. But they didn't let Dillinger get away either. They waited outside the theater for Dillinger to come out and for the crowd to disperse and then they moved in on Dillinger. They got Dillinger without any civilian casualties. That's how to apprehend a dangerous criminal while minimizing civilian casualties, not the way that Cap's team recklessly disregarded civilian lives.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 16, 2018 15:40:38 GMT
Is this a real post? I mean, is this supposed to be a real conversation about the dangers of superheros when left unchecked or is it about the dangers of the Avengers; and NOT say....The Justice League? This is the MCU board and the title of this thread is "The Avengers bloody rampages". Any discussion of the Justice League in this thread is irrelevant to the subject of this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 15:50:49 GMT
Is this a real post? I mean, is this supposed to be a real conversation about the dangers of superheros when left unchecked or is it about the dangers of the Avengers; and NOT say....The Justice League? This is the MCU board and the title of this thread is "The Avengers bloody rampages". Any discussion of the Justice League in this thread is irrelevant to the subject of this thread. That comment sounds kinda like when someone doesn't like their peas touching their mashed potatoes.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 16, 2018 15:53:08 GMT
Wanda isn't as experienced as the rest of the Avengers and she just quickly reacted without really thinking. If she's too inexperienced and acts without thinking, then she shouldn't have been out in the field. That's just bad decision-making by the team leader and that bad decision-making cost many civilians their lives. And that's what the Accords were for. To prevent bad decision-making by the Avengers, resulting in inexperienced Avengers being out in the field and acting without thinking, causing the deaths of many civilians. But Steve Rogers didn't want to sign the Accords because Steve Rogers wanted to be a tyrant with no oversight and no limitation on his power and authority. I don't know why you want every hero to be flawless and perfect in every way. Because that's how heroes are supposed to be. People don't want to read about ordinary people doing ordinary things. People want to read about extraordinary heroes doing extraordinary things. That's why throughout history, the greatest heroes have been not ordinary people but great figures who have been head and shoulders above ordinary people, from Hercules and Perseus in ancient times to King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table in medieval times to Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in modern times. That's also why people watch professional sports. Nobody wants to watch a playground basketball game with ordinary people playing. People want to watch an NBA game with the best players, like Michael Jordan or LeBron James. And that's also why perfection is idolized and revered in sports. When a pitcher pitches a perfect game, it's celebrated as an epic achievement. The 17-0 perfect season by the 1972 Dolphins is still revered as the greatest season in NFL history because they achieved perfection. Michael Jordan, who was a perfect in the NBA Finals, is considered by most people to be the greatest basketball player ever. And Joe Montana, who was a perfect in Super Bowls and never even threw an interception in a Super Bowl, is considered the greatest QB in NFL history. Good point about perfection and the Dolphins. That's like the Pats in 2008, too. Innit? Innit, damngumby?
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 16, 2018 15:54:05 GMT
Is this a real post? I mean, is this supposed to be a real conversation about the dangers of superheros when left unchecked or is it about the dangers of the Avengers; and NOT say....The Justice League? Stop being a McMarvel troll. Some of us are tryna have a real discussion here, sparky.
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Post by bud47 on Nov 16, 2018 16:10:20 GMT
Wanda isn't as experienced as the rest of the Avengers and she just quickly reacted without really thinking. If she's too inexperienced and acts without thinking, then she shouldn't have been out in the field. That's just bad decision-making by the team leader and that bad decision-making cost many civilians their lives. And that's what the Accords were for. To prevent bad decision-making by the Avengers, resulting in inexperienced Avengers being out in the field and acting without thinking, causing the deaths of many civilians. But Steve Rogers didn't want to sign the Accords because Steve Rogers wanted to be a tyrant with no oversight and no limitation on his power and authority. I don't know why you want every hero to be flawless and perfect in every way. Because that's how heroes are supposed to be. People don't want to read about ordinary people doing ordinary things. People want to read about extraordinary heroes doing extraordinary things. That's why throughout history, the greatest heroes have been not ordinary people but great figures who have been head and shoulders above ordinary people, from Hercules and Perseus in ancient times to King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table in medieval times to Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in modern times. That's also why people watch professional sports. Nobody wants to watch a playground basketball game with ordinary people playing. People want to watch an NBA game with the best players, like Michael Jordan or LeBron James. And that's also why perfection is idolized and revered in sports. When a pitcher pitches a perfect game, it's celebrated as an epic achievement. The 17-0 perfect season by the 1972 Dolphins is still revered as the greatest season in NFL history because they achieved perfection. Michael Jordan, who was a perfect in the NBA Finals, is considered by most people to be the greatest basketball player ever. And Joe Montana, who was a perfect in Super Bowls and never even threw an interception in a Super Bowl, is considered the greatest QB in NFL history. According to you maybe. However, to most people, heroes that are perfect in every way without any flaws are boring. Marvel comics has always been successful because their characters have flaws, make mistakes and are relatable. This has translated to their films with great success. Your problem is that you fail to understand this. Maybe this is why you have such a problem with these films and feel the need to nitpick them to death.
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Post by kuatorises on Nov 16, 2018 16:14:43 GMT
This is the MCU board and the title of this thread is "The Avengers bloody rampages". Any discussion of the Justice League in this thread is irrelevant to the subject of this thread. That comment sounds kinda like when someone doesn't like their peas touching their mashed potatoes. Little Jimmy definitely didn't like that.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Nov 16, 2018 16:24:45 GMT
That comment sounds kinda like when someone doesn't like their peas touching their mashed potatoes. Little Jimmy definitely didn't like that. He got got.
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Post by bud47 on Nov 16, 2018 16:25:58 GMT
Not the same situation. Taking the time to negotiate with bank robbers over a small number of hostages is not the same as letting someone possibly get away with a WMD capable of killing thousands. They had to weigh the risks and possible outcomes. What's more ridiculous is why they were so chastised over these things You don't let them get away. You track them and wait until you can move in with little or no risk to civilian lives. That's what the FBI did when they went after John Dillinger. Dillinger was #1 on the FBI's Most Wanted List. The FBI knew DIillinger was inside that theater. Sure, they could've stormed into the theater with dozens of armed FBI agents, but if Dillinger had a weapon and they got into a shootout, civilians would've most likely been killed. But they didn't let Dillinger get away either. They waited outside the theater for Dillinger to come out and for the crowd to disperse and then they moved in on Dillinger. They got Dillinger without any civilian casualties. That's how to apprehend a dangerous criminal while minimizing civilian casualties, not the way that Cap's team recklessly disregarded civilian lives. And yes, they should be chastised. When cops act recklessly and get civilians killed, somebody gets reprimanded or suspended or demoted or fired (or at worst, even prosecuted). Cops are supposed be trusted by the people to protect and serve so cops have a responsibility to protect civilian lives and when cops act recklessly and endanger civilian lives, they have to be held accountable. The Avengers want to be "heroes" but they don't want the responsibility of protecting civilian lives and they want to be able to act recklessly without regard for civilian lives and not be held accountable. That's why Cap didn't want to sign the Accords. Because Cap wanted to be a tyrant with no oversight or limitation on his power and authority. That's kinda the point of the film, if you didn't notice. The Accords are to hold the Avengers responsible for their mistakes and to dictate/control when their involvement is needed. Cap's unwillingness to sign is because it takes away their right to choose and limits their ability to help when it's desperately needed. Not so that he can be a "tyrant". Maybe he's wrong and his actions sometimes make things worse, but this is what makes him and all of these characters interesting.
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