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Post by kolchak92 on Sept 10, 2018 4:11:29 GMT
Like Casino Royale is considered a reboot, but it isn't really a remake of anything per se, the 1967 film notwithstanding.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 10, 2018 4:24:40 GMT
I first heard it for Batman Begins, and for that it made sense to coin a new term, though "readaptation" would probably have been more fitting.
But then it started to be appropriated for everything, because "remake" is a dirty word and people responded well to "reboot". Friday the 13th wasn't some source material they were taking another crack at. They took a movie from 1980 and then did it again. When you're specifically redoing a *movie*, you're a remake, imo.
Hell, even sequels can be called "reboots" now. You know what they used to call a sequel to a franchise that had been dead for awhile? "Sequel".
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Post by kolchak92 on Sept 10, 2018 4:26:31 GMT
I first heard it for Batman Begins, and for that it made sense to coin a new term, though "readaptation" would probably have been more fitting. But then it started to be appropriated for everything, because "remake" is a dirty word and people responded well to "reboot". Friday the 13th wasn't some source material they were taking another crack at. They took a movie from 1980 and then did it again. When you're specifically redoing a *movie*, you're a remake, imo. Hell, even sequels can be called "reboots" now. You know what they used to call a sequel to a franchise that had been dead for awhile? "Sequel". Yeah. I remamber even when the new season of Curb Your Enthusiasm came out, it was referred to as a "reboot", which made absolutely zero sense.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Sept 10, 2018 4:37:29 GMT
It's just a language twist to make Hollywood's creative bankruptcy less pathetic.
But it doesn't work.
Hollywood is pathetic.
It's like watching a car wreck happening in slow motion. You know that scene in Tarantino's insufferable DEATH PROOF when that girl's face gets smashed in slow motion? That is what Hollywood's disintegration is like. It's wince-inducing and yet you just cannot look away.
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Post by egon1982 on Sept 12, 2018 3:49:55 GMT
When someone says "Magnificent Seven the new movie is a reboot" and one says "it's a remake" and the other guy says "same thing", well let me tell you something, they are not the same thing but 2 separate things and time for some education from a highly smart film person like myself.
Sometimes the word "reboot" needs to be retired on film and a few other terms.
DEFINITION*: verb – to restart (a computer) by loading the operating system; boot again. noun – an act or instance of restarting a computer. This word, as the definition indicates, is a computer term and had no meaning prior to the advent of PCs in the home and at work. The term was hijacked by the motion picture industry in 2005 with Batman Begins. With four prior movies produced by Warner Bros., the last of which was an unmitigated disaster, the studio wanted everyone to know that this film was something new and unrelated to the previous series. It’s no secret that a movie series will sometimes ignore a movie that bombed and just move on with the series as if that embarrassing entry never happened, so WB could have done that with Christopher Nolan’s film. That wouldn’t exactly work, though, because Nolan wanted to tell the origins of Batman, something that had not been done successfully with any of the previous movies; his take would then be a prequel except for the fact that he wanted to include the Joker in his own sequel, thereby nullifying Tim Burton’s Batman. This discontinuity would confuse the audience–how could there be two Jokers, especially with completely different origins and behaviors? Simple, this was a new series that had nothing to do with the previous films. But it wasn’t a remake of the 1989 movie because, while based on the same source material, it told a completely different story. They needed a new way of explaining what they were doing–hence the cribbing from the computer world.
Audiences bought it. They understood that the series was being “rebooted,” meaning that the old was being erased and a new “operating system” was being written in its place. The old series still existed, but this was a different take on the Batman mythology. The problem was that since the word “reboot” worked in this case, people began adopting it to refer to every instance of a new version of a known product.
Superman Returns has been dubbed a "reboot", it's not! it's part of the same franchise and ignores 3 and 4, it's a retcon sequel as it's in the same franchise.
Now, every remake and sequel is called a reboot. Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance is made by other people because the first one was deemed a bad movie, let’s call it a reboot to distance itself from the original! New versions of old horror movies are made and are dubbed “reboots,” even though they tell the same story as the original movies, though perhaps elaborating the story. Even though Halloween, Friday the 13th, and Nightmare on Elm Street all spawned multiple sequels, their “reboots” retold their origins. Guess what? Those are remakes, plain and simple. You can argue that the recent versions started the series over again, but unlike Batman Begins, they don’t do a completely different take on the material.
Even films like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, I Spit on Your Grave, The Hills Have Eyes, Last House on the Left, The Crazies, Maniac, Robocop, Fright Night, Let Me In, the upcoming Overboard, the upcoming Big Trouble in Little China, the upcoming Lion King etc. are remakes, plain and simple.
A not so recent phenomenon is the act of rebooting a franchise. Ever since “Batman Begins” was a success, studios have increasingly been rebooting film franchises to introduce to new audiences. The way we defined a reboot and how often we used the word has also changed. At first it seem to make sense, “Batman Begins” and “The Amazing Spider-Man” all being labeled with the term, reboot. Why does that make sense? Well, because those movies are the restart of a preexisting franchise but also is not classified as a remake (which is a whole different thing entirely). “Batman Begins” is just starting a new franchise with the Batman character (it’s not a remake of the 1989 Tim Burton “Batman” film). Somewhere though we seem to lose our basic understanding of what this word actually means. Soon movies like “Robocop”, “A Nightmare on Elm Street” Started being labeled a reboot by countless film journalists and critics.
Recently I’ve noticed people labeling certain movies that are not reboots with the term, reboot. The latest “Nightmare on Elm Street” for example is simply a remake of the original 1984 Wes Craven film (not a reboot). The new version takes the original film and redoes it. Sure, they may be trying to start another franchise, but it is a remake first and foremost. I would make the same argument with the 2014 “Robocop”. It may have some changes to the story, but it’s the filmmakers are redoing the original 1987 story. The remake is not just taking the character and doing something completely different, it’s the same general story. It seems now the two words are used interchangeably when there is a distinction to be had.
True reboots are:
Casino Royale since it truly started the series from scratch, adapting the first James Bond book Ian Flemming wrote (the only time the book was accurately adapted for the big screen), and ignored everything that came before (though Judi Dench reprising her role as M was confusing in this context).
Spider-Man Homecoming did the Batman Begins route and ignoring 2 established series and being part of the MCU.
Rise of the Planet of the Apes due to the fact that it tells the origins of how the apes took over out world but in a completely different manner than the movie it closely emulates, Conquest of the Planet of the Apes.
Star Trek is another example as it reboots the series back to basics in an alternate universe.
Man of Steel is another example that ignores the previous Superman movies even the retcon sequel Superman Returns. It is a new take on the Superman legend.
“Reboot” is a term that is not only incorrectly attributed to the wrong type of movies, but it is overused. It’s now jumped ship to other types of entertainment. Rather than use it as a catch-all for any adaptation, we need to return to using the correct terminologies
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Sept 12, 2018 4:13:47 GMT
I first heard it for Batman Begins, and for that it made sense to coin a new term, though "readaptation" would probably have been more fitting. Or "reimagining". I guess "Reboot" is "punchier"
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Post by politicidal on Sept 12, 2018 12:44:57 GMT
Once upon a time, there was a difference. But that was a long time ago.
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Post by James Bond on Sept 12, 2018 12:45:48 GMT
A remake copies the plot of the original, a reboot goes its own way.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Sept 12, 2018 14:51:38 GMT
Reboot is starting over. Remake is copying, a direct ode.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 12, 2018 22:27:54 GMT
Reboot is a franchise term and means to start again.
Remake is a term for a direct copy of an original screenplay.
Movies based on novels don't technically qualify as remakes, Psycho (1998) being an exception. Psycho (1998) isn't a re-adaptation of the book, it is a direct copy of the 1960 movie.
Star Trek (2009) - reboot
King Kong (2005) - remake
War of the Worlds (2005) - re-adaptation
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 12, 2018 23:05:34 GMT
I first heard it for Batman Begins, and for that it made sense to coin a new term, though "readaptation" would probably have been more fitting. But then it started to be appropriated for everything, because "remake" is a dirty word and people responded well to "reboot". Friday the 13th wasn't some source material they were taking another crack at. They took a movie from 1980 and then did it again. When you're specifically redoing a *movie*, you're a remake, imo. Hell, even sequels can be called "reboots" now. You know what they used to call a sequel to a franchise that had been dead for awhile? "Sequel". They can be, but that is a misuse of the term imo. Friday the 13th isn't a remake imo. What is it a remake of? Friday the 13th: Part 2? That movie is in a category by itself and a great example of how sequels, remakes and reboots have gotten way out of control.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 13, 2018 0:42:00 GMT
I first heard it for Batman Begins, and for that it made sense to coin a new term, though "readaptation" would probably have been more fitting. But then it started to be appropriated for everything, because "remake" is a dirty word and people responded well to "reboot". Friday the 13th wasn't some source material they were taking another crack at. They took a movie from 1980 and then did it again. When you're specifically redoing a *movie*, you're a remake, imo. Hell, even sequels can be called "reboots" now. You know what they used to call a sequel to a franchise that had been dead for awhile? "Sequel". They can be, but that is a misuse of the term imo. Friday the 13th isn't a remake imo. What is it a remake of? Friday the 13th: Part 2? That movie is in a category by itself and a great example of how sequels, remakes and reboots have gotten way out of control. It's a mishmash of the first four films. Saying it's not a remake is like saying the 2004 Series of Unfortunate Events isn't an adaptation because it uses elements of the first three books instead of just one.
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Post by egon1982 on Sept 13, 2018 0:46:37 GMT
A remake copies the plot of the original, a reboot goes its own way. You agree with everything i said?
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Post by James Bond on Sept 13, 2018 1:01:18 GMT
A remake copies the plot of the original, a reboot goes its own way. You agree with everything i said? I didn't read anything other than the OP.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 13, 2018 1:14:38 GMT
They can be, but that is a misuse of the term imo. Friday the 13th isn't a remake imo. What is it a remake of? Friday the 13th: Part 2? That movie is in a category by itself and a great example of how sequels, remakes and reboots have gotten way out of control. It's a mishmash of the first four films. Saying it's not a remake is like saying the 2004 Series of Unfortunate Events isn't an adaptation because it uses elements of the first three books instead of just one. So it's a remake of 4 movies in one? I have never heard of such a thing and didn't know the term remake could be applied that way, especially when it skips over most of the events in the original 1980 movie. Wikipedia refers to it as a re-imagining of the first 4 films and I am fine with that definition. The Series of Unfortunate Events is a bad comparison imo, because there is no other definition of what it is besides an adaptation of the books. This whole thread is about this exact topic and the differences between reboots, remakes, re-imaginings etc. and Friday the 13th (2009) is the perfect example of how these terms have been made almost useless for movies these days. What exactly is the point of combining the 4 best Friday the 13th movies into a movie that kind of acts like the original exists in the same world and sucks out everything that makes the first 4 movies as good as they can possibly be? This is why I am not comfortable calling this a remake. Looking on Google, most people don't consider it a remake.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 13, 2018 2:07:22 GMT
It's a mishmash of the first four films. Saying it's not a remake is like saying the 2004 Series of Unfortunate Events isn't an adaptation because it uses elements of the first three books instead of just one. So it's a remake of 4 movies in one? I have never heard of such a thing and didn't know the term remake could be applied that way, especially when it skips over most of the events in the original 1980 movie. Wikipedia refers to it as a re-imagining of the first 4 films and I am fine with that definition. The Series of Unfortunate Events is a bad comparison imo, because there is no other definition of what it is besides an adaptation of the books. This whole thread is about this exact topic and the differences between reboots, remakes, re-imaginings etc. and Friday the 13th (2009) is the perfect example of how these terms have been made almost useless for movies these days. What exactly is the point of combining the 4 best Friday the 13th movies into a movie that kind of acts like the original exists in the same world and sucks out everything that makes the first 4 movies as good as they can possibly be? This is why I am not comfortable calling this a remake. well, the definition of "reimagining", according to Wiktionary, is "a remake". And I'm fine with that definition, because it's true. Reimagining is just another word filmmakers throw around to shy away from the other R word. What is reimagined in Friday 09? It's all sh*t we've seen before in the series. Not for a single, solitary second does the remake act like the original exists in its world. 1. We see, quite literally, a remake of the original's ending in its opening. 2. It's of course different actors. It's also raining. 3. The opening takes place in 1980, while the original took place in 1979. 4. We see a living, child Jason come up to his mom's body. The original Jason either drowned in the 50s, or survived and lived as a hermit. Neither is the case here. And then we jump ahead to elements of the next three films for one obvious reason: when people think of Friday the 13th, they think of Jason and the hockey mask. So much so that Scream used the fact that Jason wasn't the killer in the original as a gotcha. Audiences wouldn't see a remake with just Jason's mom, or just baghead Jason, and no hockey masked Jason, so they remade four movies instead of just one.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 13, 2018 2:18:16 GMT
So it's a remake of 4 movies in one? I have never heard of such a thing and didn't know the term remake could be applied that way, especially when it skips over most of the events in the original 1980 movie. Wikipedia refers to it as a re-imagining of the first 4 films and I am fine with that definition. The Series of Unfortunate Events is a bad comparison imo, because there is no other definition of what it is besides an adaptation of the books. This whole thread is about this exact topic and the differences between reboots, remakes, re-imaginings etc. and Friday the 13th (2009) is the perfect example of how these terms have been made almost useless for movies these days. What exactly is the point of combining the 4 best Friday the 13th movies into a movie that kind of acts like the original exists in the same world and sucks out everything that makes the first 4 movies as good as they can possibly be? This is why I am not comfortable calling this a remake. well, the definition of "reimagining", according to Wiktionary, is "a remake". And I'm fine with that definition, because it's true. Reimagining is just another word filmmakers throw around to shy away from the other R word. What is reimagined in Friday 09? It's all sh*t we've seen before in the series. Not for a single, solitary second does the remake act like the original exists in its world. 1. We see, quite literally, a remake of the original's ending in its opening. 2. It's of course different actors. It's also raining. 3. The opening takes place in 1980, while the original took place in 1979. 4. We see a living, child Jason come up to his mom's body. The original Jason either drowned in the 50s, or survived and lived as a hermit. Neither is the case here. And then we jump ahead to elements of the next three films for one obvious reason: when people think of Friday the 13th, they think of Jason and the hockey mask. So much so that Scream used the fact that Jason wasn't the killer in the original as a gotcha. Audiences wouldn't see a remake with just Jason's mom, or just baghead Jason, and no hockey masked Jason, so they remade four movies instead of just one. What I mean is that the "remake" doesn't actually follow 90% of the events of the original fucking movie. It just picks up at the end right before the mother is killed. Thus the viewer may as well just pretend the original exists in the world of the 2009 movie, even if that isn't what the movie wants the audience to do. You certainly have a point in that people wouldn't flock to see Jason's mom in a movie these days but that is the MAIN reason it isn't a remake to me. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't consider remake and re-imagining the same thing, and if they technically are then I don't think they should be. Re-imaginings play fast and loose with the movies they are based on but still keep to the basic premise more or less. Remakes keep relatively close to the movies they are based on.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 13, 2018 3:01:06 GMT
Rebooting typically just means you're "restarting" a movie franchise/ip (new universe/continuity). For instance "Batman Begins" was a reboot of the Batman franchise, not a remake of Batman 89. Remaking is just that, your'e remaking a movie. Now what exactly constitutes a "remake" can be debatable. The 1992 version of "Dracula" for instance isn't a remake of the 1931 Lugosi film since it's drastically different and based more on the book (readaptation would be more accurate). In contrast, the 1998 version of "Pyscho" was a shot for shot remake of the 1960 original, not a "readaptation" of the novel. A couple more confusing examples: Evil Dead II is a "quasi" remake/sequel of sorts, it ignores the first one but has the same basic plot and lead actor.. The 2009 "Friday the 13th" isn't a remake of the first film, it's a remake of the first three.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 13, 2018 3:14:25 GMT
Rebooting typically just means you're "restarting" a movie franchise/ip (new universe/continuity). For instance "Batman Begins" was a reboot of the Batman franchise, not a remake of Batman 89. Remaking is just that, your'e remaking a movie. Now what exactly constitutes a "remake" can be debatable. The 1992 version of "Dracula" for instance isn't a remake of the 1931 Lugosi film since it's drastically different and based more on the book (readaptation would be more accurate). In contrast, the 1998 version of "Pyscho" was a shot for shot remake of the 1960 original, not a "readaptation" of the novel. A couple more confusing examples: Evil Dead II is a "quasi" remake/reboot of sorts since it starts out similarily but ignores the first one and the plot is considerably different. The 2009 "Friday the 13th" isn't a remake of the first film, it's a remake of the first three.I don't understand how it can be considered a remake of the first 3 while ignoring most of the original movie. That makes NO sense to me. It's more a remake of just 2, 3 and 4, especially since the ending of the first movie is used in Part II. I'll settle for accepting it as a remake of Part 2, Part III and Part IV.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 13, 2018 3:16:14 GMT
Rebooting typically just means you're "restarting" a movie franchise/ip (new universe/continuity). For instance "Batman Begins" was a reboot of the Batman franchise, not a remake of Batman 89. Remaking is just that, your'e remaking a movie. Now what exactly constitutes a "remake" can be debatable. The 1992 version of "Dracula" for instance isn't a remake of the 1931 Lugosi film since it's drastically different and based more on the book (readaptation would be more accurate). In contrast, the 1998 version of "Pyscho" was a shot for shot remake of the 1960 original, not a "readaptation" of the novel. A couple more confusing examples: Evil Dead II is a "quasi" remake/reboot of sorts since it starts out similarily but ignores the first one and the plot is considerably different. The 2009 "Friday the 13th" isn't a remake of the first film, it's a remake of the first three.I don't understand how it can be considered a remake of the first 3 while ignoring most of the original movie. That makes NO sense to me. It's more a remake of just 2, 3 and 4, especially since the ending of the first movie is used in Part II. WHoops, meant to say 2-4
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