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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 14, 2018 13:48:02 GMT
Who made the argument here that a film that relies heavily on CGI should not win an Oscar...?
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 14, 2018 13:49:40 GMT
Who made the argument here that a film that relies heavily on CGI should not win an Oscar...? charzhino, summers8, and you.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 14, 2018 13:50:24 GMT
Who made the argument here that a film that relies heavily on CGI should not win an Oscar...? charzhino, summers8, and you. Pray, show me where.
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 14, 2018 13:52:04 GMT
‘Black Panther’ still needed a lot of CGI to create Wakanda. Also, his claim was that a film that relies heavily on CGI shouldn’t win Best Picture, and if we go by that logic, ‘The Return of the King’, the most CGI-heavy Best Picture winner as of 2018, would be the worst winner of all time - and we all know that’s not the case. The point is it should be rely on only if it is necessary. Black Panther may have some necessary shots that needed it, but it's obvious that Ryan Cooglar fell into the trap. Granted it's not a uncommon thing for modern film makers. Hell even directors that I respect like Spielberg and Romero have done it. Even Peter Jackson couldn’t avoid that trap as well. Anyway, I used ‘The Return of the King’ as a counter-example because some posters here were claiming that ‘Infinity War’ doesn’t deserve Best Picture because it relies heavily on CGI. Me? I’m saving Best Picture for ‘Avengers 4’ depending on how that turns out.
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 14, 2018 13:52:39 GMT
charzhino, summers8, and you. Pray, show me where.
It’s right on this thread. It’s not that hard to find. Also, I’m on a iPod Touch right now.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 14, 2018 14:02:41 GMT
True. Peter Jackson did fall into the trap and his treatment of the Hobbit made me lose all respect for him.
Fucking sellout.
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 14, 2018 14:09:22 GMT
True. Peter Jackson did fall into the trap and his treatment of the Hobbit made me lose all respect for him. Fucking sellout. I actually liked the extended cut of ‘The Hobbit’ trilogy, but yeah, it definitely wasn’t ‘The Lord of the Rings’. In all fairness, I think the real trap he fell into was what I call crazy fanboyism and the whole production turned into an utter catastrophe after MGM went into a financial crisis.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 14, 2018 14:12:00 GMT
It’s right on this thread. It’s not that hard to find. Also, I’m on a iPod Touch right now. and you cannot touch that ipod, I guess, and burden of prove rules thus do not apply, because of apples? How convenient.
For the record you make a good point comparing LotR3 (as veritable battle porn film) with other clobber efforts, but ruin it with a straw man: Nobody seriously asserted that the MCU films should not win Best Film because of CGI overuse. That has nothing to do with best film, but is a vapid graphic whore argument.
Charzino said: "There is no storytelling merit when a movie is filled by 90% of CGI fighting." But that statement does not lead into "no CGI heavy film should win best picture Oscar". The emphasis of the argument seems "storytelling merit in relation to fight percentage" not so much HOW the fighting is put into picture.
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 14, 2018 14:24:57 GMT
It’s right on this thread. It’s not that hard to find. Also, I’m on a iPod Touch right now. and you cannot touch that ipod, I guess, and burden of prove rules thus do not apply, because of apples? How convenient.
For the record you make a good point comparing LotR3 (as veritable battle porn film) with other clobber efforts, but ruin it with a straw man: Nobody seriously asserted that the MCU films should not win Best Film because of CGI overuse. That has nothing to do with best film, but is a vapid graphic whore argument.
Charzino said: "There is no storytelling merit when a movie is filled by 90% of CGI fighting." But that statement does not lead into "no CGI heavy film should win best picture Oscar". The emphasis of the argument seems "storytelling merit in relation to fight percentage" not so much HOW the fighting is put into picture.
charzhino’s argument could be used against ‘The Return of the King’, I can promise you that.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 14, 2018 14:28:44 GMT
True. Peter Jackson did fall into the trap and his treatment of the Hobbit made me lose all respect for him. Fucking sellout. I actually liked the extended cut of ‘The Hobbit’ trilogy, but yeah, it definitely wasn’t ‘The Lord of the Rings’. In all fairness, I think the real trap he fell into was what I call crazy fanboyism and the whole production turned into an utter catastrophe after MGM went into a financial crisis. He should have left the project. It was obvious that he wasn't passionate about the project. That's the difference. With lots he was passionate about it and the end result is a Oscar.
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 14, 2018 14:35:43 GMT
I actually liked the extended cut of ‘The Hobbit’ trilogy, but yeah, it definitely wasn’t ‘The Lord of the Rings’. In all fairness, I think the real trap he fell into was what I call crazy fanboyism and the whole production turned into an utter catastrophe after MGM went into a financial crisis. He should have left the project. It was obvious that he wasn't passionate about the project. That's the difference. With lots he was passionate about it and the end result is a Oscar. Actually, Guillermo del Toro was going to direct it as a 2-parter film, but he left because the production wasn’t going anywhere after MGM got into the financial crisis. Peter Jackson was brought in at the last minute because Warner Brothers/New Line Cinema couldn’t afford any more delays. Honestly, Peter Jackson directing it was probably a better option since there was no guarantee that other directors would do well. Also, Warner Brothers/New Line Cinema’s decision turned out to be a better option since both Christopher Lee and Andrew Lesnie died less than a year after the trilogy was completed. This was practically one bad luck after another.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 14, 2018 14:55:24 GMT
He should have left the project. It was obvious that he wasn't passionate about the project. That's the difference. With lots he was passionate about it and the end result is a Oscar. Actually, Guillermo del Toro was going to direct it as a 2-parter film, but he left because the production wasn’t going anywhere after MGM got into the financial crisis. Peter Jackson was brought in at the last minute because Warner Brothers/New Line Cinema couldn’t afford any more delays. Honestly, Peter Jackson directing it was probably a better option since there was no guarantee that other directors would do well. Also, Warner Brothers/New Line Cinema’s decision turned out to be a better option since both Christopher Lee and Andrew Lesnie died less than a year after the trilogy was completed. This was practically one bad luck after another. Yeah I wish del Toro made it. It was perfect for him and losing Christopher Lee really sucked.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 14, 2018 14:57:48 GMT
Speaking of The Return of the King this year is the 15th anniversary of the film!
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 14, 2018 15:08:50 GMT
Speaking of The Return of the King this year is the 15th anniversary of the film! I’m hoping for a day when the entire 6-film (extended cut) saga is re-released in IMAX (for ‘The Lord of the Rings’) and IMAX 3D (for ‘The Hobbit’) format.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Sept 14, 2018 17:49:43 GMT
It’s right on this thread. It’s not that hard to find. Also, I’m on a iPod Touch right now. and you cannot touch that ipod, I guess, and burden of prove rules thus do not apply, because of apples? How convenient.
For the record you make a good point comparing LotR3 (as veritable battle porn film) with other clobber efforts, but ruin it with a straw man: Nobody seriously asserted that the MCU films should not win Best Film because of CGI overuse. That has nothing to do with best film, but is a vapid graphic whore argument.
Charzino said: "There is no storytelling merit when a movie is filled by 90% of CGI fighting." But that statement does not lead into "no CGI heavy film should win best picture Oscar". The emphasis of the argument seems "storytelling merit in relation to fight percentage" not so much HOW the fighting is put into picture.
And that just boils down to your guy's opinion that you don't think Black Panther has any story. Fair enough, but the general consensus doesn't agree with that. Sure it had an overabundance of CGI, but there was still a clear story with underlying themes of racism and isolationism and moral duty as a leader of a nation (I wished it hit the isolationism more though, rather than the racism part), and if some think it worthy of Best Picture, what's wrong with that?? I don't think it is, but there's no need to project your insecurities of the film if it does or there are talks of it.
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Post by summers8 on Sept 14, 2018 18:15:31 GMT
There is no storytelling merit when a movie is filled by 90% of CGI fighting. Exactly. Even -- even though the Doctor Strange/Thanos fight was pretty fucking cool. that's the thing with MCU. it's ''cool''. no actual depth or real substance.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 14, 2018 19:42:38 GMT
Seriously what is the big deal. let black panther get nominated for major Oscars, I could use a good laugh, because it will finally show and prove once and for all their is a bias to Marvel. we already know of the bias, even the bizarre silence on the bad cgi in their film after Justice League got trashed for the same bad CGI by so called critics, but hopefully when BP gets nominated the less than 5% of hardcore MCU zombies won't have any other card to play to try and convince themselves (not us) the media and critics are not biased to MCU since they wont be able to explain how BP managed to get any nominations in major category when not even their best movie (winter solider) did talk less of the actual compelling comic movie drama, we have had from DC, Independent movies and X-Men and also....Wonder woman not getting any nomination last year.A movie that was less predictable in story and with better technicality. did you guys see the excellent cinematography in Wonder Woman....so so good. was not even nominated in technical categories...so black panther getting any nominations will be fun to talk about. I cant wait for the mcu excuses. The only thing worse than an excuse that comes after the fact is one that is prepared in advance. Someone once asked me, "How does it feel to be a member of the most hated fandom in all of fandom history? How does it feel to know that you subscribe to an inane and childish philosophy? How does it feel to know that we are on to your frivolous, little empire and we're going to be right there when it crumbles?" In all honesty, at that very moment, I wasn't quickwitted enough to summon an appropriately cutting retort. Now that I've had a little time to reflect on it, the answer is simple. It feels like money in the bank. summers8 do you like your work? Hee hee hee...
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Post by Vassaggo on Sept 14, 2018 19:45:50 GMT
Seriously what is the big deal. let black panther get nominated for major Oscars, I could use a good laugh, because it will finally show and prove once and for all their is a bias to Marvel. we already know of the bias, even the bizarre silence on the bad cgi in their film after Justice League got trashed for the same bad CGI by so called critics, but hopefully when BP gets nominated the less than 5% of hardcore MCU zombies won't have any other card to play to try and convince themselves (not us) the media and critics are not biased to MCU since they wont be able to explain how BP managed to get any nominations in major category when not even their best movie (winter solider) did talk less of the actual compelling comic movie drama, we have had from DC, Independent movies and X-Men and also....Wonder woman not getting any nomination last year.A movie that was less predictable in story and with better technicality. did you guys see the excellent cinematography in Wonder Woman....so so good. was not even nominated in technical categories...so black panther getting any nominations will be fun to talk about. I cant wait for the mcu excuses. HOLY WALL OF TEXT, BATMAN!!! Honestly I don't expect anyone to read my ramblings. I got bored waiting for brother to get here. You've set up a nice Catch 22 here. On the one hand if they don't get nominated for a major award then it's proof that Black Panther is overrated. On the other hand if they do get nominated for a major award then you'll fall on the sword of fake martyrdom. You can say look I've been right all along the media and critics are biased. Look I don't think it deserves a major award nomination or win. Hell, I think it's stupid to even have award shows of any kind. I think it's a circle jerk that Musicians, Artists, Producers, Directors, Writers, and Actors take part in every year. It's pointless. Having admitted to that, I just don't agree with your logic that this will show the media/critics bias toward BP/MCU. First and foremost the oscar nominations and wins are selected by the members of the Academy. (Actors nominate actors, directors nominate directors, etc) The press/media/critics have no say in the matter. Also nominations and then voting on nominations are done by secret ballot. Because of the secret ballot no member has to justify their choice. They aren't held accountable for their vote. So even if there is a bias (I personally don't think there is one or if there is one it's not intentional.) in the coverage of the MCU it won't matter to the Members. They can put whomever they want down and not have to deal with being called a racist if they voted against BP. This doesn't stop the Academy's reputation from taking a hit. Their reputation takes a hit every year for being mostly white. So the point is moot. Your premise that this will prove a bias assumes, that deep down people know BP isn't a good film. (I think it's good but again fuck award shows and critics) I'm not so sure that's the case though. I know a lot of normies that fucking loved the movie and wants it to win all the awards. To people like that they see the nomination as validation of their Opinions and the Opinions of the Critics. The opinions of Critics mean less to me than the general public's opinion (again fuck the critics) . The amenity divorces the members from their choices, so Critics have no Direct effect on the voter. If /When Black Panther gets nominated, you say, it's evidence that there is a bias. How could the best MCU film get snubbed and BP not? This is easy to explain. It's your opinion (along with other's opinions), that The Winter Soldier is the Best Movie the MCU has had. It's other peoples opinion it's not the best. I think Avengers is the better film by a hair. Using your opinion as evidence to your argument is dubious at best. The Winter Soldier being the best MCU is not a fact. IF BP gets nominated then the academy's collective anonymous opinion is that The Winter Soldier is not the best MCU film. In the end, fuck critics, fuck the audience score, fuck the oscars, fuck the golden globes, fuck the grammy's, fuck the Emmy's (all versions of it: Daytime, Primetime, and Regional), fuck the MTV Movie Awards, fuck the MTV Video Awards, fuck the Kid's Choice Awards, fuck the People's Choice Awards, fuck the Bafta, fuck the Logies, fuck the Tony's, fuck the Kennedy Center Honors, fuck the Mark Twain Prize for humor (especially because Bill Cosby got one), fuck the Espy's, fuck the SAG awards, fuck the NTA, fuck the DGA, fuck the WAG, fuck the Critic's Choice Awards, fuck the Independence Spirit Award, fuck the Grand Jury Prize and Audience award at Sundance Film Festival, fuck the Golden Palm at Cannes Film Festival, and finally Fuck the Box Office. Your opinion is valid to yourself. That's the only validation you need. It's enough. You are the most important metric when it comes to great movies/tvshows/music/art for you. No one else lives in your head, so therefore no one can say you are wrong. They can disagree with you, but your opinion is your opinion and it's valid and correct to you. If you like XMU and think X-men Origins: Wolverine is the best one then groovy. (This is not a hypothetical I do know one dude who thinks it is the best) If you think MCU is trash, go right ahead think it. If you think the DCEU should've stopped after BvS then have at it. If you think the DCEU should have 6 more sequels it's cool. Your opinion will suffice, it's valid, and it's the only one that should matter to you.
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Post by bud47 on Sept 14, 2018 20:04:50 GMT
Seriously what is the big deal. let black panther get nominated for major Oscars, I could use a good laugh, because it will finally show and prove once and for all their is a bias to Marvel. we already know of the bias, even the bizarre silence on the bad cgi in their film after Justice League got trashed for the same bad CGI by so called critics, but hopefully when BP gets nominated the less than 5% of hardcore MCU zombies won't have any other card to play to try and convince themselves (not us) the media and critics are not biased to MCU since they wont be able to explain how BP managed to get any nominations in major category when not even their best movie (winter solider) did talk less of the actual compelling comic movie drama, we have had from DC, Independent movies and X-Men and also....Wonder woman not getting any nomination last year.A movie that was less predictable in story and with better technicality. did you guys see the excellent cinematography in Wonder Woman....so so good. was not even nominated in technical categories...so black panther getting any nominations will be fun to talk about. I cant wait for the mcu excuses. HOLY WALL OF TEXT, BATMAN!!! Honestly I don't expect anyone to read my ramblings. I got bored waiting for brother to get here. You've set up a nice Catch 22 here. On the one hand if they don't get nominated for a major award then it's proof that Black Panther is overrated. On the other hand if they do get nominated for a major award then you'll fall on the sword of fake martyrdom. You can say look I've been right all along the media and critics are biased. Look I don't think it deserves a major award nomination or win. Hell, I think it's stupid to even have award shows of any kind. I think it's a circle jerk that Musicians, Artists, Producers, Directors, Writers, and Actors take part in every year. It's pointless. Having admitted to that, I just don't agree with your logic that this will show the media/critics bias toward BP/MCU. First and foremost the oscar nominations and wins are selected by the members of the Academy. (Actors nominate actors, directors nominate directors, etc) The press/media/critics have no say in the matter. Also nominations and then voting on nominations are done by secret ballot. Because of the secret ballot no member has to justify their choice. They aren't held accountable for their vote. So even if there is a bias (I personally don't think there is one or if there is one it's not intentional.) in the coverage of the MCU it won't matter to the Members. They can put whomever they want down and not have to deal with being called a racist if they voted against BP. This doesn't stop the Academy's reputation from taking a hit. Their reputation takes a hit every year for being mostly white. So the point is moot. Your premise that this will prove a bias assumes, that deep down people know BP isn't a good film. (I think it's good but again fuck award shows and critics) I'm not so sure that's the case though. I know a lot of normies that fucking loved the movie and wants it to win all the awards. To people like that they see the nomination as validation of their Opinions and the Opinions of the Critics. The opinions of Critics mean less to me than the general public's opinion (again fuck the critics) . The amenity divorces the members from their choices, so Critics have no Direct effect on the voter. If /When Black Panther gets nominated, you say, it's evidence that there is a bias. How could the best MCU film get snubbed and BP not? This is easy to explain. It's your opinion (along with other's opinions), that The Winter Soldier is the Best Movie the MCU has had. It's other peoples opinion it's not the best. I think Avengers is the better film by a hair. Using your opinion as evidence to your argument is dubious at best. The Winter Soldier being the best MCU is not a fact. IF BP gets nominated then the academy's collective anonymous opinion is that The Winter Soldier is not the best MCU film. In the end, fuck critics, fuck the audience score, fuck the oscars, fuck the golden globes, fuck the grammy's, fuck the Emmy's (all versions of it: Daytime, Primetime, and Regional), fuck the MTV Movie Awards, fuck the MTV Video Awards, fuck the Kid's Choice Awards, fuck the People's Choice Awards, fuck the Bafta, fuck the Logies, fuck the Tony's, fuck the Kennedy Center Honors, fuck the Mark Twain Prize for humor (especially because Bill Cosby got one), fuck the Espy's, fuck the SAG awards, fuck the NTA, fuck the DGA, fuck the WAG, fuck the Critic's Choice Awards, fuck the Independence Spirit Award, fuck the Grand Jury Prize and Audience award at Sundance Film Festival, fuck the Golden Palm at Cannes Film Festival, and finally Fuck the Box Office. Your opinion is valid to yourself. That's the only validation you need. It's enough. You are the most important metric when it comes to great movies/tvshows/music/art for you. No one else lives in your head, so therefore no one can say you are wrong. They can disagree with you, but your opinion is your opinion and it's valid and correct to you. If you like XMU and think X-men Origins: Wolverine is the best one then groovy. (This is not a hypothetical I do know one dude who thinks it is the best) If you think MCU is trash, go right ahead think it. If you think the DCEU should've stopped after BvS then have at it. If you think the DCEU should have 6 more sequels it's cool. Your opinion will suffice, it's valid, and it's the only one that should matter to you. Well said, but it's ultimately futile and a waste of breath on someone like summers8. You may as well be talking to the wall. You can't reason with fanatics.
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Post by blockbusted on Sept 14, 2018 21:14:33 GMT
HOLY WALL OF TEXT, BATMAN!!! Honestly I don't expect anyone to read my ramblings. I got bored waiting for brother to get here. You've set up a nice Catch 22 here. On the one hand if they don't get nominated for a major award then it's proof that Black Panther is overrated. On the other hand if they do get nominated for a major award then you'll fall on the sword of fake martyrdom. You can say look I've been right all along the media and critics are biased. Look I don't think it deserves a major award nomination or win. Hell, I think it's stupid to even have award shows of any kind. I think it's a circle jerk that Musicians, Artists, Producers, Directors, Writers, and Actors take part in every year. It's pointless. Having admitted to that, I just don't agree with your logic that this will show the media/critics bias toward BP/MCU. First and foremost the oscar nominations and wins are selected by the members of the Academy. (Actors nominate actors, directors nominate directors, etc) The press/media/critics have no say in the matter. Also nominations and then voting on nominations are done by secret ballot. Because of the secret ballot no member has to justify their choice. They aren't held accountable for their vote. So even if there is a bias (I personally don't think there is one or if there is one it's not intentional.) in the coverage of the MCU it won't matter to the Members. They can put whomever they want down and not have to deal with being called a racist if they voted against BP. This doesn't stop the Academy's reputation from taking a hit. Their reputation takes a hit every year for being mostly white. So the point is moot. Your premise that this will prove a bias assumes, that deep down people know BP isn't a good film. (I think it's good but again fuck award shows and critics) I'm not so sure that's the case though. I know a lot of normies that fucking loved the movie and wants it to win all the awards. To people like that they see the nomination as validation of their Opinions and the Opinions of the Critics. The opinions of Critics mean less to me than the general public's opinion (again fuck the critics) . The amenity divorces the members from their choices, so Critics have no Direct effect on the voter. If /When Black Panther gets nominated, you say, it's evidence that there is a bias. How could the best MCU film get snubbed and BP not? This is easy to explain. It's your opinion (along with other's opinions), that The Winter Soldier is the Best Movie the MCU has had. It's other peoples opinion it's not the best. I think Avengers is the better film by a hair. Using your opinion as evidence to your argument is dubious at best. The Winter Soldier being the best MCU is not a fact. IF BP gets nominated then the academy's collective anonymous opinion is that The Winter Soldier is not the best MCU film. In the end, fuck critics, fuck the audience score, fuck the oscars, fuck the golden globes, fuck the grammy's, fuck the Emmy's (all versions of it: Daytime, Primetime, and Regional), fuck the MTV Movie Awards, fuck the MTV Video Awards, fuck the Kid's Choice Awards, fuck the People's Choice Awards, fuck the Bafta, fuck the Logies, fuck the Tony's, fuck the Kennedy Center Honors, fuck the Mark Twain Prize for humor (especially because Bill Cosby got one), fuck the Espy's, fuck the SAG awards, fuck the NTA, fuck the DGA, fuck the WAG, fuck the Critic's Choice Awards, fuck the Independence Spirit Award, fuck the Grand Jury Prize and Audience award at Sundance Film Festival, fuck the Golden Palm at Cannes Film Festival, and finally Fuck the Box Office. Your opinion is valid to yourself. That's the only validation you need. It's enough. You are the most important metric when it comes to great movies/tvshows/music/art for you. No one else lives in your head, so therefore no one can say you are wrong. They can disagree with you, but your opinion is your opinion and it's valid and correct to you. If you like XMU and think X-men Origins: Wolverine is the best one then groovy. (This is not a hypothetical I do know one dude who thinks it is the best) If you think MCU is trash, go right ahead think it. If you think the DCEU should've stopped after BvS then have at it. If you think the DCEU should have 6 more sequels it's cool. Your opinion will suffice, it's valid, and it's the only one that should matter to you. Well said, but it's ultimately futile and a waste of breath on someone like summers8. You may as well be talking to the wall. You can't reason with fanatics. Yup. This is the same guy who said that ‘Twilight’ series is better than MCU because it deals with a teenage girl getting pregnant. I wouldn’t be surprised if he thinks ‘Fifty Shades Freed’ is more deserving to be nominated for Best Picture than any MCU films simply because the former doesn’t have a lot of CGI.
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