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Post by telegonus on Sept 26, 2018 7:24:11 GMT
Really? That's how I usually hear it pronounced. Or should I say, that's how I hear it pronounced most ofTen. I suppose it's a regional thing. The Oxford Dictionary says: Usage When pronouncing often, some speakers sound the t, saying /ˈôftən/; for others, it is silent, as in soften, fasten, listen. Either pronunciation is acceptable, although /ˈôfən / is more common. "Often" is an example of spelling pronunciation.
The elite in England would more likely pronounce often without T as would majority of people in Commonwealth countries. The first time I heard anyone say often with 't' left me stunned.
The first time I have a strong recollection of anyone pronouncing often with the t was in grade school: a classmate I was pals with who was new to the school, and a nice fellow, if not the sharpest knife in the drawer. My sense was that he used it so as to sound "educated" (at the ripe old age of ten,--true story). He did it well enough, and he got by nicely. Besides, how often do kids use the word often?
Big surprise for me: second time I have a strong memory of often with the t pronounced was probably the same school year, when then First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy was giving her famous televised White House tour (shows you how old I am!), and for some reason when describing something, maybe a room, a chair or a table, she mentioned that they didn't use it "off ten" in the Kennedy administration.
Her pronunciation of the word nearly shocked my ten year old sensibilities, as Jackie Kennedy was known for her class and refinement, while I associated that kind of precise, (too precise IMO) and highly specialized pronunciation of certain words as indicative of someone trying to rise to a higher stratum in society. In other words, people who are comfortable with who they are shouldn't need to do that.
I was a child, of course, and not worldly, but I had a sharp eye and ear, and I still think my instincts were correct about Mrs Kennedy; and a lovely and gracious woman she was, and yet what appeared to be her insistence on presenting herself to the public in a such a special way struck me as, oddly, and paradoxically, given who she was, vulgar. Does saying this make me a snob? Well, I'm not judging the woman, just sayin'.
The sec
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 9:35:52 GMT
Ok i got one, not sure if it has been done already. Couldnt be bothered looking through.
How about separate? Is it pronounced seprate or se-pa-rate? Best I can explain it. Hope you catch my drift
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Post by HumanFundRecipient on Sept 26, 2018 9:38:23 GMT
Nu-cu-lar < Nuclear
There's only one "u" in the word nuclear, that pronounciation assumes there are two.
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 26, 2018 11:09:10 GMT
The Oxford Dictionary says: Usage When pronouncing often, some speakers sound the t, saying /ˈôftən/; for others, it is silent, as in soften, fasten, listen. Either pronunciation is acceptable, although /ˈôfən / is more common. "Often" is an example of spelling pronunciation.
The elite in England would more likely pronounce often without T as would majority of people in Commonwealth countries. The first time I heard anyone say often with 't' left me stunned.
The first time I have a strong recollection of anyone pronouncing often with the t was in grade school: a classmate I was pals with who was new to the school, and a nice fellow, if not the sharpest knife in the drawer. My sense was that he used it so as to sound "educated" (at the ripe old age of ten,--true story). He did it well enough, and he got by nicely. Besides, how often do kids use the word often?
Big surprise for me: second time I have a strong memory of often with the t pronounced was probably the same school year, when then First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy was giving her famous televised White House tour (shows you how old I am!), and for some reason when describing something, maybe a room, a chair or a table, she mentioned that they didn't use it "off ten" in the Kennedy administration.
Her pronunciation of the word nearly shocked my ten year old sensibilities, as Jackie Kennedy was known for her class and refinement, while I associated that kind of precise, (too precise IMO) and highly specialized pronunciation of certain words as indicative of someone trying to rise to a higher stratum in society. In other words, people who are comfortable with who they are shouldn't need to do that.
I was a child, of course, and not worldly, but I had a sharp eye and ear, and I still think my instincts were correct about Mrs Kennedy; and a lovely and gracious woman she was, and yet what appeared to be her insistence on presenting herself to the public in a such a special way struck me as, oddly, and paradoxically, given who she was, vulgar. Does saying this make me a snob? Well, I'm not judging the woman, just sayin'.
The sec
Thanks for sharing your memories, Telegonus! |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Sept 26, 2018 11:14:42 GMT
Was just making a point about your claim that caramel should be pronounced car-a-mel because it's spelt that way. For the record I pronounce it car-a-mel. Of course. I am not suggesting we make it against the law and start arresting people. I am just saying it is wrong. Just like pronouncing Lisa as Fred is wrong. And smart as stupid. Or good as bad. Right as wrong . . . etc. It's unconventional. Not wrong. It's not wrong to be unconventional. Some things, like saying "carmel," though, are common enough that they're not really unconventional. Pronouncing "Lisa" as "Fred" would be pretty unconventional. ;-) |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Sept 26, 2018 11:18:23 GMT
Re "often," I think I usually pronounce it with a "hard 'f'." It's not exactly "offen," but not exactly "ofTen" either. It's kind of in between.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Sept 26, 2018 11:22:54 GMT
Pronouncing W as double-u instead of wu or we. I realize it's the 100% accepted way to do it, and I myself do it, but I personally think we or wu would be so much more practical/logical. How about "wha?"  |
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Sept 26, 2018 11:45:45 GMT
Pronouncing W as double-u instead of wu or we. I realize it's the 100% accepted way to do it, and I myself do it, but I personally think we or wu would be so much more practical/logical. How about "wha?" Still better than double-u IMO. |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Sept 26, 2018 11:57:07 GMT
How about "wha?" Still better than double-u IMO. It would be fun to have a letter that we pronounce like a confused question. ;-) |
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Post by movieliker on Sept 26, 2018 12:10:20 GMT
Of course. I am not suggesting we make it against the law and start arresting people. I am just saying it is wrong. Just like pronouncing Lisa as Fred is wrong. And smart as stupid. Or good as bad. Right as wrong . . . etc. It's unconventional. Not wrong. It's not wrong to be unconventional. Some things, like saying "carmel," though, are common enough that they're not really unconventional. Pronouncing "Lisa" as "Fred" would be pretty unconventional. ;-) Regardless of its convention, pronouncing caramel as carmel is just wrong. Caramel is a 3 syllable word. Ca-ra-mel Carmel is a 2 syllable word. Car-mel |
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 26, 2018 12:44:59 GMT
As for the offen- ofTen discussion above, I used to pronounce it with the t—I’d learnt it that way, I suppose—until a well-meaning 9th grade English teacher corrected me, and I’ve been saying it sans T ever since. I hadn’t known that British/Commonwealth pronunciations include the t-sound… Oh, but the élites don’t—OK, got it. See, this thread does have a purpose after all!  Thanks, fellas. Just to share my experiences as I have lived in the UK, Australia and India in last 6 years. I am only familiar with masses so I will exclude elites from my data set.
Australia - Have seen people pronouncing it both ways.
UK - Have seen people pronouncing it both ways - Almost 50-50 split.
India, Sri Lanka and other Commonwealth countries - Almost 99% people pronounce it without the t. I have never come across a single human being from the subcontinent who actually pronounces it with the T. Not even one person in my lifetime.
On one website I read from an expert that pronouncing often with the t is less likely to be a regional thing but more likely to be a thing of pronunciation based on literal spelling.
I would like to share this very important info from The Random House dictionary:
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Post by Catman 猫的主人 on Sept 26, 2018 12:56:34 GMT
Surely everyone can agree to blame Peter Jennings for the mainstreaming of pronouncing often with the t.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Sept 26, 2018 15:00:45 GMT
movielikerAfter Often Listen Fasten Their spellings give no clue whether the "t" is silent. It's simply a fact that English spellings and pronunciations can be quite arbitrary, and are learned pretty much by rote. This was brilliantly illustrated in a 1952 I Love Lucy episode in which Ricky reads a children's book aloud and gets frustrated by the different pronunciations of "bough, rough, through and cough." Take "bough," for instance. The same pronunciation can be spelled as "bow" (the kind you take), but the same spelling can be pronounced "boe" (the kind you tie). Consider as another example the varying "ow" sounds in "how, know and knowledge." Anyone learning English as a second language has my sympathy, and anyone mastering it my admiration.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 26, 2018 15:07:52 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 26, 2018 15:29:44 GMT
movieliker After Often Listen Fasten Their spellings give no clue whether the "t" is silent. It's simply a fact that English spellings and pronunciations can be quite arbitrary, and are learned pretty much by rote. This was brilliantly illustrated in a 1952 I Love Lucy episode in which Ricky reads a children's book aloud and gets frustrated by the different pronunciations of "bough, rough, through and cough." Take "bough," for instance. The same pronunciation can be spelled as "bow" (the kind you take), but the same spelling can be pronounced "boe" (the kind you tie). Consider as another example the varying "ow" sounds in "how, know and knowledge." Anyone learning English as a second language has my sympathy, and anyone mastering it my admiration. Well...it looks like you finally made that one mature post which looks like the final say on the matter. It seems like the vice-chancellor himself decided to put the matter to rest. I am pretty sure at least now this issue should end. Excellent post BTW, doghouse. |
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Post by ᵗʰᵉᵃᵘˣᵖʰᵒᵘ on Sept 26, 2018 15:39:34 GMT
Forehead as “FOUR HEAD”.
It’s pronounced “FORRID”.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 26, 2018 15:57:42 GMT
Too much sun can produce a Florid Forrid  |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 26, 2018 16:20:25 GMT
Here's one I haven't seen yet in this thread:
Jew-el-ry (correct) that many people pronounce as jew-lah-ry, and sometimes jewl-ry.
Irritates the snot out of me. One would think that a high-end shop that sells high price tag items would pronounce it correctly in their advertising.
End of rant.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 26, 2018 16:44:18 GMT
Image for the day … An irate rachelcarson1953 standing in ...oh, say, Tiffany's or Cartier's (hands on hips)... and ranting " It irritates the snot out of me that the ads for your high end shop pronounce your high price tag items as jewl-ry" !   … just a mental image brought to mind by the minor rant. No offence intended |
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Post by Catman 猫的主人 on Sept 26, 2018 16:48:59 GMT
And then there was the local news anchor who mispronounced Tibet like this: tibbit.
That apparently was the last straw for the station, who had endured her inability to pronounce common words and other place names for nearly a year. Shortly after the Tibet incident, she simply disappeared.
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Thanks, fellas. 
