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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 26, 2018 16:30:53 GMT
"different realities", that's pretty deep. I guess there is an objective reality that almost nobody could tolerate for a sustained length of time. I have a huge imagination and I would just assume consider that my reality. I'm not even close to being free of bias. I think I could describe myself as highly impressionistic. In a way, I have very little capacity for making a judgment. On the Myers-Briggs test (which I am a huge fan of), I scored very high as a perceptive (as opposed to judging), which means that I can see, "perceive" the validity of many, many different perspectives, as opposed to be somebody who can make a final decision with confidence and speed. Most of the time, I hate making decisions. It's not good or bad, either way, and I, personally, am kind of pleased that I do lean more towards the 'P' versus 'J'. At any rate, I might as well be happy with it if that's who I am!!! Maybe I shouldn't admit this so freely, but I would say I value imagination over science. And they are always coming out with new theories. I remember one time I read something about eating carrots linked to certain kinds of cancer. I sort of gave up on science after that. Not really, but sort of. thanks for the insight into your world i appreciate it. best example of realities clashing i can think of is when two opposing parties of a conflict tell you their version of what happened. if we take out situations where they intentionally lie about it, and only deal with those that genuinely try and describe things the way they believe were, its amazing how different those realities can be. and not only the adjectives people attribute to each other (like: she was nasty to me, or he was being aggressive etc) which you can often say depends on subjective interpretation of the meaning of the word and behaviour you believe manifests it, but its often the verifiable facts that clash. where both parties genuinely believe their story. and more often than not, its their mind lying to them for some reason. Or one or both parties just dont know what they dont know. when you accept that this does happen (and it happens fairly often) dont you have to wonder "how much of my perceived reality is really true". there is a couple of great movie that lightly touch on this and are not a scifi, which I think makes it very relatable. The Sense of an Ending and 45 Years Coincidently both star the great Charlotte Rampling. I can highly recommend both. Oh and on imagination and science, dont you feel they often and if not ideally go hand in hand? We even have many movie examples where imagination influenced science or rather its applied result (technology). Minority Report for one... Yes, definitely. It is something brilliant when science and imagination can be incorporated. I think Albert Einstein would be an excellent example of this way of seeing things. I always loved that he said " Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world..." I would always agree with this. But I think perhaps I was being hasty and short sighted when I made my comment. But since the word "science" basically means "knowledge", that's really sort of the genesis for my point of view. But I don't know if that's totally accurate. Can't say. I have never seen "Minority Report", but maybe "A Beautiful Mind" would be another good example of this. Or, hey, "Life is Beautiful" would be an excellent example of the profound importance of the imagination. Imagination is what gets you through the rough times. I want to more accurately explain what I wanted to say about my outlook regarding science. So, I don't know if this exactly correlates, but I am not a political person in the least bit. And when I do get tidbits of information or insight into the Republican party or the Democratic party, I always find that both parties have their good points and their bad points in equal measure. And I can never decide which party I would prefer. Like I'm gay, but that doesn't mean at all that I am a liberal. I have friends who scream for gay marriage and my reaction to all of that is very lukewarm. I just can't get riled up about that kind of stuff. Maybe some of that comes down to me not being very good at making solid decisions, but I really do see these parties as sort of identical in a way. They kind of mirror each other. What it comes down to for me is I have always viewed politics as basically this enormous arena for huge egos and that's it. And I believe that the issues are almost tertiary in importance. When I am at my friend's house, I do watch the news and the main thing I see is the party members attacking each other in a very self-righteous manner. It really is second grade stuff. And it always surprises me when other people don't seem to pick up on that. I'm always like "what's going on here?" It's almost creepy, like an episode of "The Twilight Zone". Voila!! "The Twilight Zone" is the most perfect example of what compels me. I have always been so in sync with that show. I'm going to be a little self-indulgent here because this quote is so perfect. Rod Serling would narrate the beginning of each episode with this. There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.Yikes! That really induces the willies and in an absolutely wonderful way! For me, this ideology just absolutely trumps facts, i.e. knowledge, i.e., science. I find that above quote just endlessly riveting. Some people might say I'm sloppy, but facts just seem to go right over my head. I don't key on facts. (Though I did love math courses in high school.) And another thing that always surprises me is how little interest people seem to take in their dreams. I really do think that in some way a person's dreams are perhaps the most important or relevant thing in life. In a way that's an overstatement, but at the same time not really. I love my dreams to no end and without a doubt it is the most authentic experience a person can have. So I don't know if this equates with my "unscientific" point of view or maybe I just never learned how to apply my imagination. (Actually that's not true as I am making a fairly concerted attempt to write a novel.) Maybe the imagination is what stimulates the drive to find knowledge. (don't know if I said that right.) Or maybe it comes down to immaturity on my part. But I really don't think so. I think it comes back to the thing about having an impressionistic viewpoint. And if that's who I am, then I am fine with that. I'm just not wired to be stimulated by facts. Point of view is soooo much more interesting to me. It's the INFP in me!
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 16:56:19 GMT
Reality is reality. What your five senses (or however many it is that we're supposed to have nowadays, I read 6, LOL) can experience is what reality is. The rest is philosophical mumbo jumbo.
However I do believe in alternate realities. Not because I have any proof, but rather because if THIS is the only reality then life is effed up. I have to believe that in another reality things went much better for my doppelganger!
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 26, 2018 17:29:15 GMT
I think what I take from the premise might be how much of what I perceive from my own mind's eye is actually accurate. To which I'd probably say 40%. I mean, everything is reality, including the mind's eye. Yet perceptions can be fully & totally false. How many times have you been cut off or tailgated by some overstuffed BMW or Mercedes SUV, thinking that guy or girl should get a life. Then it turns out to be some 80yr old man or woman who wouldn't know how to road rage if you handed them a gun. yeah exactly. but what also fascinates me is the blind spots oeole have about themselves. how often do you see it that everybody around a person sees something (usually negative but sometimes also positive) what they dont see. ANd if u tell them also struggle to believe. today I think was the first time I actually felt bad for Trump. I was watching some late night show and they were making fun of him as they often do, and at one point it became so apparent that in certain areas he really has no clue THAT he has no clue about certain things he claims to grasp. it made me sad for him for a brief momentAnd I dont mean this to turn political, it happens to everybody I think, to a certain degree. I think it would be wonderful to be able to see “reality” through someone elses eye. Hey, I think that's really cool that you have it in you to have that sort of emotional reaction. I always felt a little sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer and don't even get me started on Aileen Wournos, "Patron Saint of Martyrdom"
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Post by Nora on Sept 26, 2018 17:37:22 GMT
Reality is reality. What your five senses (or however many it is that we're supposed to have nowadays, I read 6, LOL) can experience is what reality is. The rest is philosophical mumbo jumbo.
However I do believe in alternate realities. Not because I have any proof, but rather because if THIS is the only reality then life is effed up. I have to believe that in another reality things went much better for my doppelganger! ok lets say I agree with you saying that what your senses experience is reality. But do you then factor in possible errors in judgement or your mind playing tricks on you or memory lapsus? (lapsi?) if you a) get to a wrong conclusion or b) your personality/mind/brain plays a trick on you (convinces you something is true whereas in reality it is not) or c) your memory fails you and u dont know about it and thus keep creating/living with an image of false reality is it still reality? :-) or is it “just” your subjective perception of some kind of reality, which may or may not be in line with some veryfiable facts? I love the idea of paralel realities though. Do you ever try to join the one where you believe you would be better of? If so, how do you go about it?
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 26, 2018 18:02:47 GMT
Reality is reality. What your five senses (or however many it is that we're supposed to have nowadays, I read 6, LOL) can experience is what reality is. The rest is philosophical mumbo jumbo.
However I do believe in alternate realities. Not because I have any proof, but rather because if THIS is the only reality then life is effed up. I have to believe that in another reality things went much better for my doppelganger! The sixth sense is intuition.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 18:38:19 GMT
Reality is reality. What your five senses (or however many it is that we're supposed to have nowadays, I read 6, LOL) can experience is what reality is. The rest is philosophical mumbo jumbo.
However I do believe in alternate realities. Not because I have any proof, but rather because if THIS is the only reality then life is effed up. I have to believe that in another reality things went much better for my doppelganger! ok lets say I agree with you saying that what your senses experience is reality. But do you then factor in possible errors in judgement or your mind playing tricks on you or memory lapsus? (lapsi?) if you a) get to a wrong conclusion or b) your personality/mind/brain plays a trick on you (convinces you something is true whereas in reality it is not) or c) your memory fails you and u dont know about it and thus keep creating/living with an image of false reality is it still reality? :-) or is it “just” your subjective perception of some kind of reality, which may or may not be in line with some veryfiable facts? I love the idea of paralel realities though. Do you ever try to join the one where you believe you would be better of? If so, how do you go about it? I think what you're describing are errors. So those are not reality. If you have memory loss, or you were just wrong about something, those can be corrected, and once corrected then you would know the difference between that and reality. For example when you are high your senses are warped. But you don't STAY high. You come back to your balanced senses and re-experience reality as it is. Your senses can be tricked, but reality itself doesn't change, just your perception of it.
As for "joining" an alternate reality... it seems its impossible. Your atoms and those of an alternate reality cannot co-exist. At least that's the current thinking in the scientific community with todays technology. But its nice to imagine.
Maybe some monk somewhere has the secret but that fucker aint talking, damn him.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 18:40:59 GMT
Reality is reality. What your five senses (or however many it is that we're supposed to have nowadays, I read 6, LOL) can experience is what reality is. The rest is philosophical mumbo jumbo.
However I do believe in alternate realities. Not because I have any proof, but rather because if THIS is the only reality then life is effed up. I have to believe that in another reality things went much better for my doppelganger! The sixth sense is intuition. If you say so.
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 26, 2018 18:44:00 GMT
The sixth sense is intuition. If you say so. Well, it's not just me who thinks this. But that's fine if you don't believe it. You stick to your reality and I'll stick to mine and the world will continue to spin on the axis.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 18:52:50 GMT
Well, it's not just me who thinks this. But that's fine if you don't believe it. You stick to your reality and I'll stick to mine and the world will continue to spin on the axis. If you say so.
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Post by Nora on Sept 26, 2018 18:59:16 GMT
ok lets say I agree with you saying that what your senses experience is reality. But do you then factor in possible errors in judgement or your mind playing tricks on you or memory lapsus? (lapsi?) if you a) get to a wrong conclusion or b) your personality/mind/brain plays a trick on you (convinces you something is true whereas in reality it is not) or c) your memory fails you and u dont know about it and thus keep creating/living with an image of false reality is it still reality? :-) or is it “just” your subjective perception of some kind of reality, which may or may not be in line with some veryfiable facts? I love the idea of paralel realities though. Do you ever try to join the one where you believe you would be better of? If so, how do you go about it? I think what you're describing are errors. So those are not reality. If you have memory loss, or you were just wrong about something, those can be corrected, and once corrected then you would know the difference between that and reality. For example when you are high your senses are warped. But you don't STAY high. You come back to your balanced senses and re-experience reality as it is. Your senses can be tricked, but reality itself doesn't change, just your perception of it.
As for "joining" an alternate reality... it seems its impossible. Your atoms and those of an alternate reality cannot co-exist. At least that's the current thinking in the scientific community with todays technology. But its nice to imagine.
Maybe some monk somewhere has the secret but that fucker aint talking, damn him.
you are correct, those are errors. but i think more often than not people are unaware of them. (and some even unwilling to admit/correct those once they find out about their existence). so when u think about it this way (as we now seem to have defined more precisely what we both are talking about) do you still believe that what you experience is reality. are your experiences void of errors or do you believe you are able to catch and correct most of them? as for your atoms not being able to coexist in alternate realities - my thinking is thats not necsrly true. unless there is just one alternate reality consisting of some opposite matter so when u join it it cannot coexist together. but considering there is more alternate realities than just one, they cant all be consisting of opposite matter to each other so why wouldnt u be able to exist there? i know scifi movies teach as that but to me that applies more to time travel than alternate universes. but who knows right? :-)
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 26, 2018 19:07:24 GMT
Well, it's not just me who thinks this. But that's fine if you don't believe it. You stick to your reality and I'll stick to mine and the world will continue to spin on the axis. If you say so.
Is that all you can come up with? That was a very uninventive not to mention meaningless response. And you used it twice. Three strikes and you're out!
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Post by mslo79 on Sept 26, 2018 19:14:13 GMT
NoraYes, on some level because they ignore the truth that this life is not all their is and if someone ignores that reality they simply won't take steps to help the chances of their eternal soul making it to Heaven after death here on earth. basically this life is passing and while I know it can be difficult to see beyond the here and now here on earth, as we are bound by our five senses (so it does require some level of Faith), if one is TOO concerned with things of this world and ignore the reality of sin etc, that can potentially have a big negative effect on them once they pass from this life into the next. because if one ends up in hell... they have lost EVERYTHING that's good and nothing but suffering/hate remains in that person for eternity. NOTE: the suffering in hell far exceeds anything one can possibly experience here on earth. basically those who reject sin reject the truth that humanity has a fallen nature, after the fall of Adam/Eve, don't see things as they truly are as sin exists and has consequences as some stuff that does not appear to be bad for us actually is in the eyes of God. I am sure the sexual desire is one of those most abused things that people fall into sin. basically that's where the Catholic church comes into play to guide people in terms of right and wrong and, given the way some people are (as we have some level of attraction towards sin because some sin is appealing to us), they simply won't like some of it's teachings. but with that said... I know it can be difficult for people to find the truth because there is a lot of BS in the world etc. but God is just as I am sure He will take into account many things in a persons life because as I have read, if someone, through no fault of their own, does not come to the knowledge of the truth that the church Jesus Christ started roughly 2,000 years ago with Peter is the true Church of God (i.e. Catholic (the list of popes from today all the way back to to Peter... www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm )) they can still attain Heaven. they say mercy is His greatest attribute but those who reject that, by living a life of sin and not repenting til death here on earth, have to deal with His justice. just some thoughts
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Sept 26, 2018 19:15:21 GMT
Of course I questioned it. How do you think I came to that conclusion? I am not the most intelligent person on this board, but I am not a doofus. what is interesting to me is that you were even able to get to the conclusion that what you perceive as reality actualy Is reality, albeit subjective one (edited for humph) It is necessary for me to think that way in order to keep what little sanity I have left. I don't expect anyone else to see reality as I do.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 19:50:51 GMT
I think what you're describing are errors. So those are not reality. If you have memory loss, or you were just wrong about something, those can be corrected, and once corrected then you would know the difference between that and reality. For example when you are high your senses are warped. But you don't STAY high. You come back to your balanced senses and re-experience reality as it is. Your senses can be tricked, but reality itself doesn't change, just your perception of it.
As for "joining" an alternate reality... it seems its impossible. Your atoms and those of an alternate reality cannot co-exist. At least that's the current thinking in the scientific community with todays technology. But its nice to imagine.
Maybe some monk somewhere has the secret but that fucker aint talking, damn him.
you are correct, those are errors. but i think more often than not people are unaware of them. (and some even unwilling to admit/correct those once they find out about their existence). so when u think about it this way (as we now seem to have defined more precisely what we both are talking about) do you still believe that what you experience is reality. are your experiences void of errors or do you believe you are able to catch and correct most of them? as for your atoms not being able to coexist in alternate realities - my thinking is thats not necsrly true. unless there is just one alternate reality consisting of some opposite matter so when u join it it cannot coexist together. but considering there is more alternate realities than just one, they cant all be consisting of opposite matter to each other so why wouldnt u be able to exist there? i know scifi movies teach as that but to me that applies more to time travel than alternate universes. but who knows right? :-) A life completely void of errors is IMO impossible, so I don't know if there is an "answer" to that. I guess clean living to the best of your ability would limit the errors? As far as I am concerned I try to believe only in things my five senses can experience. Anything other than is nice to "imagine", but I don't put nearly as much stock in it. Whats the point, if my senses cant experience it? If I cant interact with it then why bother with it?
As for alternate realities... one train of thought is that the other realities exist on different wavelengths, like when you spin the dial on a radio to get different radio stations. Except in this case there is no machine or method that is the equivalent of the spinning dial or the radio. One day we may find it as easy to do as spinning a dial. But I don't think within our lifetimes.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 19:53:31 GMT
If you say so.
Is that all you can come up with? That was a very uninventive not to mention meaningless response. And you used it twice. Three strikes and you're out! Iiiiiiiffffffff yyyyyyooooooouuuuuuuuu sssssssssssssaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy sssssssssssssssssooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 20:43:40 GMT
Reality is reality. What your five senses (or however many it is that we're supposed to have nowadays, I read 6, LOL) can experience is what reality is. The rest is philosophical mumbo jumbo.
However I do believe in alternate realities. Not because I have any proof, but rather because if THIS is the only reality then life is effed up. I have to believe that in another reality things went much better for my doppelganger! What if your senses are being lied to? Deceived?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 20:51:58 GMT
Reality is reality. What your five senses (or however many it is that we're supposed to have nowadays, I read 6, LOL) can experience is what reality is. The rest is philosophical mumbo jumbo.
However I do believe in alternate realities. Not because I have any proof, but rather because if THIS is the only reality then life is effed up. I have to believe that in another reality things went much better for my doppelganger! What if your senses are being lied to? Deceived? Then you're up shit's creek.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 20:57:25 GMT
What if your senses are being lied to? Deceived? Then you're up shit's creek. Lol. Magicians and con men have made their living providing false realities to our senses for a very long time.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 20:58:58 GMT
Then you're up shit's creek. Lol. Magicians and con men have made their living providing false realities to our senses for a very long time. Nah, those are tricks. I'm talking about real things... like ghosts, LOL!
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Sept 26, 2018 21:09:49 GMT
I'd be surprised if much of what I (or anyone else) perceived wasn't objective reality. would you mind elaborating on that a bit? Perhaps I wasn't 100% sure what you were getting at with the question. If you're talking about the physical world, I would imagine most of what I and others see around us is what it is and most people would perceive it the same. If you're talking about mental/psychological/emotional things, then yes I'm sure we all have attributes and quirks about ourselves which others may see that we don't, but overall I think most people have a reasonable idea of how they are perceived by others.
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