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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 26, 2018 13:08:29 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshipped a male God.
I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 26, 2018 13:13:38 GMT
I wrote in my original review something like “shhh. Don’t tell feminists, but Chris Pine is actually the hero of the movie.” So, no, I don’t think it’s “feministic” (depending on how we define that, though). I found that wonderfully refreshing: Jenkins et al. were interested in telling a story, not giving us a political rant. Thank God. Great movie.
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Post by charzhino on Sept 26, 2018 13:28:44 GMT
The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature.It wasn't human nature, it was mans nature. The whole film is basically saying men are responsible for all the evil and wars throughout history and implying that it wouldn't be the case if women were the more dominant sex.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 26, 2018 13:32:36 GMT
The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature.It wasn't human nature, it was mans nature. The whole film is basically saying men are responsible for all the evil and wars throughout history and implying that it wouldn't be the case if women were the more dominant sex. Huh? Where on earth did you get that from?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 26, 2018 13:33:36 GMT
The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature.It wasn't human nature, it was mans nature. The whole film is basically saying men are responsible for all the evil and wars throughout history and implying that it wouldn't be the case if women were the more dominant sex. How? When did the film ever imply that? The movie sure as hell didn’t seem to suggest that when it made Zeus out to be the savior of humanity and the Amazons. Hell, one of the bad guys of the movie was a woman, and the only reason that Diana didn’t end up killing her was because she remembered the words that Steve (a man) told her right before he heroically sacrificed himself to stop the weapon that the previously mentioned woman was responsible for.
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Post by redhorizon on Sept 26, 2018 13:57:32 GMT
She is the protagonist. Just look at the movie title. Chris Pine just did a damn good job. Having a hero here beside the heroine doesn't mean the focus is solely on him. Wonder Woman is the greatest female superhero of all time. It's a triumph of femininity.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 26, 2018 13:59:57 GMT
She is the protagonist. Just look at the movie title. Chris Pine just did a damn good job. Having a hero here beside the heroine doesn't mean the focus is solely on him. Wonder Woman is the greatest female superhero of all time. It's a triumph of femininity. I don’t think that has anything to do with whether or not it’s “a feminist film.” Diana is definitely the protagonist. But it’s the Pine character who saves the day at the end and actually serves as the hero of the film; it’s just done subtly. I would’ve expected that feminists would have hated this movie. I loved it.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 26, 2018 14:10:43 GMT
The film was about the hero's journey and about the roots of aggression/war. It was not a feminist narrative - even though that would have made sense considering women in many places were allowed to vote the first time in WWI.
Eg Mad Max Fury Road was a feminist narrative: worrior maid takes exploited harem-maidens into a feminist wonderland only to realize it does not exist anymore and returns changing society by killing all toxit males.
What made (makes) WW special from a female perspective was (is) the female direction and lead and success.
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Post by redhorizon on Sept 26, 2018 14:13:17 GMT
I don’t think that has anything to do with whether or not it’s “a feminist film.” Diana is definitely the protagonist. But it’s the Pine character who saves the day at the end and actually serves as the hero of the film; it’s just done subtly. I would’ve expected that feminists would have hated this movie. I loved it. I was just saying some nice things about the movie. Because this looks like a thread out to belittle Wonder Woman. I don't care if it's a feminist film or not. I liked the movie because it was good and Gal Gadot was hot. You liked it because it was Chris Pine's character that saved the world and not Wonder Woman?
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 26, 2018 14:15:39 GMT
I don’t think that has anything to do with whether or not it’s “a feminist film.” Diana is definitely the protagonist. But it’s the Pine character who saves the day at the end and actually serves as the hero of the film; it’s just done subtly. I would’ve expected that feminists would have hated this movie. I loved it. I was just saying some nice things about the movie. Because this looks like a thread out to belittle Wonder Woman. I don't care if it's a feminist film or not. I liked the movie because it was good and Gal Gadot was hot. You liked it because it was Chris Pine's character that saved the world and not Wonder Woman? Oh, no, I didn’t mean that; by “it,” I meant the movie, which I loved. I also don’t care if it were a feminist film or not, but I prefer not to be assailed by political messaging.
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Post by redhorizon on Sept 26, 2018 14:20:44 GMT
Oh, no, I didn’t mean that; by “it,” I meant the movie, which I loved. I also don’t care if it were a feminist film or not, but I prefer not to be assailed by political messaging. I'm looking forward to the second part and appreciate the fact that Patty Jenkins is at the helm.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 26, 2018 14:26:47 GMT
Oh, no, I didn’t mean that; by “it,” I meant the movie, which I loved. I also don’t care if it were a feminist film or not, but I prefer not to be assailed by political messaging. I'm looking forward to the second part and appreciate the fact that Patty Jenkins is at the helm. Me too. She did a great job on the first one.
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Post by charzhino on Sept 26, 2018 14:27:07 GMT
It wasn't human nature, it was mans nature. The whole film is basically saying men are responsible for all the evil and wars throughout history and implying that it wouldn't be the case if women were the more dominant sex. How? When did the film ever imply that? The movie sure as hell didn’t seem to suggest that when it made Zeus out to be the savior of humanity and the Amazons. Hell, one of the bad guys of the movie was a woman, and the only reason that Diana didn’t end up killing her was because she remembered the words that Steve (a man) told her right before he heroically sacrificed himself to stop the weapon that the previously mentioned woman was responsible for. It wasn't human nature, it was mans nature. The whole film is basically saying men are responsible for all the evil and wars throughout history and implying that it wouldn't be the case if women were the more dominant sex. Huh? Where on earth did you get that from? What do you mean how? The whole premise of Themescyra and Amazonians is that MEN are war mongerers and cannot be trusted so the island is women only; 'they are only good for procreation' which is a line in the film. Diana refuses to believe this but when she leaves the island and sees the horrors of WW1 it confirms the ideology she's been told by her elders. Dr Poison may be female but she was working for that army general Stryker guy. This is the last quote of the film spoken by Diana: ''Seen the worst of this world, and the best. Seen the terrible things men do to each other in the name of hatred, and the lengths they'll go to for love. Now I know. Only love can save this world. So I stay. I fight, and I give... for the world I know can be. This is my mission, now. Forever.''I don't know what film you were both watching because the feminist message flew over your head.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 26, 2018 14:38:37 GMT
How? When did the film ever imply that? The movie sure as hell didn’t seem to suggest that when it made Zeus out to be the savior of humanity and the Amazons. Hell, one of the bad guys of the movie was a woman, and the only reason that Diana didn’t end up killing her was because she remembered the words that Steve (a man) told her right before he heroically sacrificed himself to stop the weapon that the previously mentioned woman was responsible for. Huh? Where on earth did you get that from? What do you mean how? The whole premise of Themescyra and Amazonians is that MEN are war mongerers and cannot be trusted so the island is women only; 'they are only good for procreation' which is a line in the film. Diana refuses to believe this but when she leaves the island and sees the horrors of WW1 it confirms the ideology she's been told by her elders. Dr Poison may be female but she was working for that army general Stryker guy. This is the last quote of the film spoken by Diana: ''Seen the worst of this world, and the best. Seen the terrible things men do to each other in the name of hatred, and the lengths they'll go to for love. Now I know. Only love can save this world. So I stay. I fight, and I give... for the world I know can be. This is my mission, now. Forever.''I don't know what film you were both watching because the feminist message flew over your head. Actually, the whole premise of Themiscyra in the context of the movie was that the Amazons needed a place to be safe from Ares, and Zeus (a male God) was the one who created the place for them in the first place. That “procreation” line you’re referring to was also a complete throwaway line that was simply there as a subtle way of implying that the Amazons weren’t entirely heterosexual. The Amazons were never shown to have a problem with men as a gender, otherwise they wouldn’t worship Zeus. Also, you do realize that the movie used “man” as a blanket term for humanity as a whole, right? How did you miss that? When Hippolyta was telling the story to Diana at the beginning of the movie, she specifically said that Zeus called humanity “man”.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 26, 2018 14:43:27 GMT
What do you mean how? The whole premise of Themescyra and Amazonians is that MEN are war mongerers and cannot be trusted so the island is women only; 'they are only good for procreation' which is a line in the film. Diana refuses to believe this but when she leaves the island and sees the horrors of WW1 it confirms the ideology she's been told by her elders. Dr Poison may be female but she was working for that army general Stryker guy. This is the last quote of the film spoken by Diana: ''Seen the worst of this world, and the best. Seen the terrible things men do to each other in the name of hatred, and the lengths they'll go to for love. Now I know. Only love can save this world. So I stay. I fight, and I give... for the world I know can be. This is my mission, now. Forever.''I don't know what film you were both watching because the feminist message flew over your head. 1. I don’t think thisguy4000 and I share a head. 2. What he said. The point of the movie is Diana’s learning to live in and respect the world. If you want to play the “how did you miss” game, how did you miss that?
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Post by redhorizon on Sept 26, 2018 14:55:22 GMT
Wonder Woman 1984 (2019) GLAAD ambassador Gianna Collier-Pitts has started a petition on Change.org to have Diana's bisexuality recognized in the film.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 26, 2018 16:31:39 GMT
The way I see it, the movie itself doesn't contain any feminist undertones. There's nothing about it that screams feminist agenda, other than the lead character being a strong and successful female of course (and showing a whole island of strong females).
What makes it feminist is because a lot of feminists have propped this movie up and waved it like a flag to advocate feminism.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 16:47:52 GMT
So wait, now its NOT a feminist film? Which is it guys? Is it a movie that only succeeded because women supported it? Or is it NOT a feminist and it succeeded because it was just a good movie? Make up your minds.
You all expected it to suck because DCEU = suck, and only MCU can = good. If it had been MCU we wouldn't be having this discussion. But now that its generally excepted as having succeeded you guys cant figure out how it happened!
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 26, 2018 16:51:25 GMT
So wait, now its NOT a feminist film? Which is it guys? Is it a movie that only succeeded because women supported it? Or is it NOT a feminist and it succeeded because it was just a good movie? Make up your minds.
You all expected it to suck because DCEU = suck, and only MCU can = good. If it had been MCU we wouldn't be having this discussion. But now that its generally excepted as having succeeded you guys cant figure out how it happened! For me (and, as you know, I’m not an MCU partisan, so take what I say as only my viewpoint), it’s a great movie that was smart enough not to play political games.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Sept 26, 2018 16:57:01 GMT
So wait, now its NOT a feminist film? Which is it guys? Is it a movie that only succeeded because women supported it? Or is it NOT a feminist and it succeeded because it was just a good movie? Make up your minds.
You all expected it to suck because DCEU = suck, and only MCU can = good. If it had been MCU we wouldn't be having this discussion. But now that its generally excepted as having succeeded you guys cant figure out how it happened! For me (and, as you know, I’m not an MCU partisan, so take what I say as only my viewpoint), it’s a great movie that was smart enough not to play political games. done
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