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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 26, 2018 17:02:20 GMT
For me (and, as you know, I’m not an MCU partisan, so take what I say as only my viewpoint), it’s a great movie that was smart enough not to play political games. done Hm?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 26, 2018 17:06:26 GMT
She is a pop culture feminist icon, so makes sense it would get that label.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 26, 2018 20:44:03 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshipped a male God. I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW. As always, this discussion can't be had with any sincerity or honesty because the view and definition of "feminism" presented is so limited. You're asking a question with the answer you want already baked in (whether you're conscious of this or not).So I ask you, is that all there is to feminism? It's these narrow and adversarial views of feminism that force the debate to go in a particular direction. Wonder Woman is a feminist movie because it was and is the first step in advancing gender equality in a previously male-dominated genre of filmmaking. The film's existence in and of itself promotes feminism in that it invokes societal change. Wonder Woman is the first credible appearance of a woman leading a big-budget superhero film. And, women are predominantly responsible for the creative vision of the film both in front of and behind the camera. The fact that Wonder Woman contains none of the obvious tropes of second-wave feminism that you're scouring every frame of the movie for is, ironically, what largely contributes to the film being a feminist achievement. That said, it's not essential that Wonder Woman be considered a feminist film. Its most impressive accomplishment is being a humanist film (albeit an imperfect one in my view). So for all of those saying, "I don't understand..." - please try harder.
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Post by darkpast on Sept 26, 2018 21:11:24 GMT
The objectification of Chris Pine's body
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 27, 2018 5:19:10 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshipped a male God. I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW. Agreed. While Black Panther used the race card and racism as its major plot element, Wonder Woman doesn't use gender inequality as a plot element. Black Panther is a black superhero movie, but Wonder Woman is a superhero movie that just happened to have a female lead. That's another reason why Wonder Woman is a much better movie than Black Panther.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 27, 2018 5:40:04 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshipped a male God. I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW. Agreed. While Black Panther used the race card and racism as its major plot element, Wonder Woman doesn't use gender inequality as a plot element. Black Panther is a black superhero movie, but Wonder Woman is a superhero movie that just happened to have a female lead. That's another reason why Wonder Woman is a much better movie than Black Panther. What is it that you want for yourself? Is everything that you see through a mirror darkly? What good could possibly come from any of this?
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Post by politicidal on Sept 29, 2018 14:45:08 GMT
I think people just saw it as a better vehicle to attach that message to than prior female-centric superhero films, even if the actual movie was far less concerned about it.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 29, 2018 18:06:31 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshipped a male God. I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW. As always, this discussion can't be had with any sincerity or honesty because the view and definition of "feminism" presented is so limited. You're asking a question with the answer you want already baked in (whether you're conscious of this or not).So I ask you, is that all there is to feminism? It's these narrow and adversarial views of feminism that force the debate to go in a particular direction. Wonder Woman is a feminist movie because it was and is the first step in advancing gender equality in a previously male-dominated genre of filmmaking. The film's existence in and of itself promotes feminism in that it invokes societal change. Wonder Woman is the first credible appearance of a woman leading a big-budget superhero film. And, women are predominantly responsible for the creative vision of the film both in front of and behind the camera. The fact that Wonder Woman contains none of the obvious tropes of second-wave feminism that you're scouring every frame of the movie for is, ironically, what largely contributes to the film being a feminist achievement. That said, it's not essential that Wonder Woman be considered a feminist film. Its most impressive accomplishment is being a humanist film (albeit an imperfect one in my view). So for all of those saying, "I don't understand..." - please try harder. I was specifically questioning the detractors of the film who claim that the movie got a pass “BECUZ FEMINIZM”. My point was that there wasn’t really anything overtly feminist about the film in the first place, with some even complainaing that the film wasn’t feminist enough.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 29, 2018 18:25:01 GMT
As always, this discussion can't be had with any sincerity or honesty because the view and definition of "feminism" presented is so limited. You're asking a question with the answer you want already baked in (whether you're conscious of this or not).So I ask you, is that all there is to feminism? It's these narrow and adversarial views of feminism that force the debate to go in a particular direction. Wonder Woman is a feminist movie because it was and is the first step in advancing gender equality in a previously male-dominated genre of filmmaking. The film's existence in and of itself promotes feminism in that it invokes societal change. Wonder Woman is the first credible appearance of a woman leading a big-budget superhero film. And, women are predominantly responsible for the creative vision of the film both in front of and behind the camera. The fact that Wonder Woman contains none of the obvious tropes of second-wave feminism that you're scouring every frame of the movie for is, ironically, what largely contributes to the film being a feminist achievement. That said, it's not essential that Wonder Woman be considered a feminist film. Its most impressive accomplishment is being a humanist film (albeit an imperfect one in my view). So for all of those saying, "I don't understand..." - please try harder. I was specifically questioning the detractors of the film who claim that the movie got a pass “BECUZ FEMINIZM”. Those people have come up with lazy straw men in order to try and justify their dislike towards the movie, and it’s pathetic, in my opinion. Fair enough. To be clear, Wonder Woman has no overtly feminist overtones. It never bludgeons the viewer over the head with agenda-driven feminism. However, the film does have some feminist subtext. The opening narration of the film for instance can be be interpreted as a new feminist orientation to classical Greco Roman creation myths. This version puts women at the forefront of the narrative and makes them active participants in securing peace throughout the world and influencing the hearts of “violent” men with love. This is in stark contrast to the traditional women of Roman and Greek mythology who spend their time either being raped, mutilated, enslaved or are portrayed as vengeful harpies (both figuratively and literally). There’s nothing wrong with this retelling but, it does have a distinctly female POV that could be interpreted as feminist.
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 30, 2018 4:06:46 GMT
I was specifically questioning the detractors of the film who claim that the movie got a pass “BECUZ FEMINIZM”. Those people have come up with lazy straw men in order to try and justify their dislike towards the movie, and it’s pathetic, in my opinion. Fair enough. To be clear, Wonder Woman has no overtly feminist overtones. It never bludgeons the viewer over the head with agenda-driven feminism. That's what I've said many times before and that's also why Wonder Woman is a much better movie than Black Panther, which does have plenty of racist overtones and bludgeons the audience over the head with the main theme of the movie - an angry black man wants to strike back at his white man oppressors. This is in stark contrast to the traditional women of Roman and Greek mythology What the fuck does Wonder Woman have to do with Roman mythology? The Trojan War and all the other events in Greek mythology happened long before there was ever a Roman Empire or Roman mythology.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 30, 2018 4:43:38 GMT
Fair enough. To be clear, Wonder Woman has no overtly feminist overtones. It never bludgeons the viewer over the head with agenda-driven feminism. That's what I've said many times before and that's also why Wonder Woman is a much better movie than Black Panther, which does have plenty of racist overtones and bludgeons the audience over the head with the main theme of the movie - an angry black man wants to strike back at his white man oppressors. This is in stark contrast to the traditional women of Roman and Greek mythology What the fuck does Wonder Woman have to do with Roman mythology? The Trojan War and all the other events in Greek mythology happened long before there was ever a Roman Empire or Roman mythology. Yes, yes, yes... And what tradition is Roman mythology largely based on?
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 30, 2018 5:50:50 GMT
That's what I've said many times before and that's also why Wonder Woman is a much better movie than Black Panther, which does have plenty of racist overtones and bludgeons the audience over the head with the main theme of the movie - an angry black man wants to strike back at his white man oppressors. What the fuck does Wonder Woman have to do with Roman mythology? The Trojan War and all the other events in Greek mythology happened long before there was ever a Roman Empire or Roman mythology. Yes, yes, yes... And what tradition is Roman mythology largely based on? Roman mythology is based on Greek mythology, but Wonder Woman isn't based on Roman mythology and has nothing to do with Roman mythology.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 30, 2018 6:17:12 GMT
Yes, yes, yes... And what tradition is Roman mythology largely based on? Roman mythology is based on Greek mythology, but Wonder Woman isn't based on Roman mythology and has nothing to do with Roman mythology. That's good, let's keep working. In your informed opinion, would you say that the depiction of Amazons in Wonder Woman is informed by the Hellonistic tradition or the Roman tradition?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 30, 2018 6:20:17 GMT
Are you kidding?
Seeing a 100 lb woman beat the living shit out of and/or kill dozens of full grown adult men ( and then kill a full fledged male god to boot ) is about as goddamn feminist as you can possibly get.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 30, 2018 6:39:19 GMT
Are you kidding? Seeing a 100 lb woman beat the living shit out of and/or kill dozens of full grown adult men ( and then kill a full fledged male god to boot ) is about as goddamn feminist as you can possibly get. And there's that, too. But, I'm not one to say.
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Sept 30, 2018 6:44:43 GMT
She is the protagonist. Just look at the movie title. Chris Pine just did a damn good job. Having a hero here beside the heroine doesn't mean the focus is solely on him. Wonder Woman is the greatest female superhero of all time. It's a triumph of femininity. She is stunningly gorgeous
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Post by DC-Fan on Sept 30, 2018 8:36:03 GMT
Are you kidding? Seeing a 100 lb woman beat the living shit out of and/or kill dozens of full grown adult men That's not feminist. The Israeli Army recruits 100-lb women and train them to beat the living shit out of full-grown adult men. In fact, one such 100-lb woman trained by the Israeli Army to beat the living shit out of full-grown adult men is Gal Gadot.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 30, 2018 17:26:21 GMT
Are you kidding? Seeing a 100 lb woman beat the living shit out of and/or kill dozens of full grown adult men That's not feminist. The Israeli Army recruits 100-lb women and train them to beat the living shit out of full-grown adult men. In fact, one such 100-lb woman trained by the Israeli Army to beat the living shit out of full-grown adult men is Gal Gadot. Women in the IDF do not routinely get trained to beat the living shit out of men twice their size. After mandatory BT which lasts a few weeks they mostly end up serving as clerks, drivers, ordinance techs and teachers. A very small percentage of women in the IDF have actual combat roles.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 30, 2018 17:42:22 GMT
Are you kidding? Seeing a 100 lb woman beat the living shit out of and/or kill dozens of full grown adult men ( and then kill a full fledged male god to boot ) is about as goddamn feminist as you can possibly get. That 100 lb woman is established within the narrative as a Demi-Goddess.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 30, 2018 17:54:09 GMT
Are you kidding? Seeing a 100 lb woman beat the living shit out of and/or kill dozens of full grown adult men ( and then kill a full fledged male god to boot ) is about as goddamn feminist as you can possibly get. That 100 lb woman is established within the narrative as a Demi-Goddess. And female.
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