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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 30, 2018 17:55:18 GMT
Are you kidding? Seeing a 100 lb woman beat the living shit out of and/or kill dozens of full grown adult men That's not feminist. Of course it is.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 30, 2018 17:56:02 GMT
That 100 lb woman is established within the narrative as a Demi-Goddess. And female. Well, yeah. That’s what’s implied by Goddess.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 30, 2018 17:57:47 GMT
Well, yeah. That’s what’s implied by Goddess. And the fact it's a woman.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 30, 2018 18:07:58 GMT
Are you kidding? Seeing a 100 lb woman beat the living shit out of and/or kill dozens of full grown adult men ( and then kill a full fledged male god to boot ) is about as goddamn feminist as you can possibly get. That 100 lb woman is established within the narrative as a Demi-Goddess. She's not just a Demi-Goddess, she's a "God Killer." That's a completely new classification which grants her the ability to kill an Olympian --- a timeless and immortal being. I don't believe she has a male equivalent or counterpart in this regard in the original myths. Being a Demi-Goddess might make her a full God anyway, though.
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Post by redhorizon on Sept 30, 2018 22:24:25 GMT
She is stunningly gorgeous Now that goes without saying.
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Sept 30, 2018 22:41:06 GMT
She is stunningly gorgeous Now that goes without saying. Yet somehow I was compelled to.
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Post by Larcen26 on Oct 1, 2018 20:45:14 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshiped a male God. I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW. See...because a woman was the lead, was strong and was openly against the gender roles of the day...so the neckbeard incels decided it was man-hating. And anything man-hating must be feminist because they mean the same thing.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 1, 2018 21:16:08 GMT
Aaaanyyyywaaaay..... I still maintain my first statement that Wonder Woman was NOT a feminist film in itself, simply that it was paraded around as such by some people. You want an example of a feminist film, go watch The Last Jedi.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 1, 2018 21:20:52 GMT
Aaaanyyyywaaaay..... I still maintain my first statement that Wonder Woman was NOT a feminist film in itself, simply that it was paraded around as such by some people. You want an example of a feminist film, go watch The Last Jedi. I guess feminism is in the eye of the beholder then... In my view, it is a feminist film and that's only threatening if you think all forms of feminism or inherently evil. For what it's worth, it did not get a "pass" solely based on its feminist appeal. Whatever accolades and box office it received were indeed merited. It's a good film. It's not Citizen Kane or The Dark Knight or whatever have you but, it is an undisputably good film.
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Post by Larcen26 on Oct 1, 2018 21:31:29 GMT
Aaaanyyyywaaaay..... I still maintain my first statement that Wonder Woman was NOT a feminist film in itself, simply that it was paraded around as such by some people. You want an example of a feminist film, go watch The Last Jedi. I guess feminism is in the eye of the beholder then... In my view, it is a feminist film and that's only threatening if you think all forms of feminism or inherently evil. For what it's worth, it did not get a "pass" solely based on its feminist appeal. Whatever accolades and box office it received were indeed merited. It's a good film. It's not Citizen Kane or The Dark Knight or whatever have you but, it is an indisputably good film. How about a middle ground of "Female Positive" or even "Female Empowering"? I think either of those are unquestionably true... But whether you think that either of those are synonymous with Feminist is the question.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 1, 2018 21:45:10 GMT
Aaaanyyyywaaaay..... I still maintain my first statement that Wonder Woman was NOT a feminist film in itself, simply that it was paraded around as such by some people. You want an example of a feminist film, go watch The Last Jedi. I guess feminism is in the eye of the beholder then... In my view, it is a feminist film and that's only threatening if you think all forms of feminism or inherently evil. For what it's worth, it did not get a "pass" solely based on its feminist appeal. Whatever accolades and box office it received were indeed merited. It's a good film. It's not Citizen Kane or The Dark Knight or whatever have you but, it is an undisputably good film. I guess it depends on a person's definition of feminism. For me, a good movie having a well-developed female protagonist with powers that make sense is not a feminist movie, it's simply a good movie with a well-developed female protagonist. On the other hand, if a movie takes extra measures to elevate all its female characters, granting them powers without making sense just so it can make the females look more empowered... well, that's a feminist movie to me (see TLJ). I guess the main difference for me is that Wonder Woman felt like a good film that just so happened to have a strong female lead. You could have gender-swapped all the characters and you'd simply end up with a good movie with a strong male lead. In comparison with something like TLJ, that movie took specific pains to make sure women looked superior... even when it no longer made sense. If we gender-swapped all the characters in the movie I'm willing to bet there would have been multiple cries of misogyny and sexism against it.
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dnno1
Sophomore
@dnno1
Posts: 321
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Post by dnno1 on Oct 1, 2018 22:02:48 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshipped a male God. I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW. Wonder Woman floated the notion that there was a nation entirely run by women that was hidden from society, and the story was from one such woman from that nation. That is why it is feminist.
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 1, 2018 22:13:50 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshipped a male God. I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW. Wonder Woman floated the notion that there was a nation entirely run by women that was hidden from society, and the story was from one such woman from that nation. That is why it is feminist. Wonder Woman didn't float the notion of a nation entirely run by women. That notion existed in Greek mythology and Wonder Woman just adapted it from Greek mythology. And Greek mythology can hardly be called feminist.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 1, 2018 22:25:08 GMT
I guess feminism is in the eye of the beholder then... In my view, it is a feminist film and that's only threatening if you think all forms of feminism or inherently evil. For what it's worth, it did not get a "pass" solely based on its feminist appeal. Whatever accolades and box office it received were indeed merited. It's a good film. It's not Citizen Kane or The Dark Knight or whatever have you but, it is an indisputably good film. I guess it depends on a person's definition of feminism. For me, a good movie having a well-developed female protagonist with powers that make sense is not a feminist movie, it's simply a good movie with a well-developed female protagonist. On the other hand, if a movie takes extra measures to elevate all its female characters, granting them powers without making sense just so it can make the females look more empowered... well, that's a feminist movie to me (see TLJ). I guess the main difference for me is that while watching WW, I never felt like there was ever any political agenda being pushed down my throat. It was simply a good movie with a female lead. I can agree to call it empowering for women, but that's about it. With TLJ, you could literally feel the political agenda coating the film. That's what made it feel like a feminist film. Your notes make perfect sense if your view of feminism is strictly that of it being a destructive political tool that is frequently misused in service of advancing so-called "female" perspectives and agendas above those of males. There's more to it than that but, most people choose not to believe that, and feminism as a social movement is frequently demonized as inherently evil. There is nothing sinister about seeking equality. You'll get no speeches or lectures from me. I'm not here to convince, persuade or cajole. The simple truth is that toxic feminism is becoming synonymous with the social movement that seeks to gain equality between men and women in all relevant areas of society. You're looking inside the frame for toxic feminism - and that's great, you should always be on your guard. Here are a few of the accomplishments that make Wonder Woman a feminist achievement. * First (credible) female-lead superhero movie * First female lead super-hero movie directed by a woman * Second female Director in history to lead a $100 million+ movie All of these things happen routinely for men. Why that is, is neither here nor there when trying to frame a narrative around equality. The above items represent the first steps for the genre and Hollywood as an industry towards equality between men and women pursuing the same enterprise.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 1, 2018 22:28:11 GMT
Wonder Woman floated the notion that there was a nation entirely run by women that was hidden from society, and the story was from one such woman from that nation. That is why it is feminist. Wonder Woman didn't float the notion of a nation entirely run by women. That notion existed in Greek mythology and Wonder Woman just adapted it from Greek mythology. And Greek mythology can hardly be called feminist. Do the "Greek" myths portray a race of women as the sole saviors of mankind?
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 1, 2018 22:41:09 GMT
I guess it depends on a person's definition of feminism. For me, a good movie having a well-developed female protagonist with powers that make sense is not a feminist movie, it's simply a good movie with a well-developed female protagonist. On the other hand, if a movie takes extra measures to elevate all its female characters, granting them powers without making sense just so it can make the females look more empowered... well, that's a feminist movie to me (see TLJ). I guess the main difference for me is that while watching WW, I never felt like there was ever any political agenda being pushed down my throat. It was simply a good movie with a female lead. I can agree to call it empowering for women, but that's about it. With TLJ, you could literally feel the political agenda coating the film. That's what made it feel like a feminist film. Your notes make perfect sense if your view of feminism is strictly that of it being a destructive political tool that is frequently misused in service of advancing so-called "female" perspectives and agendas above those of males. There's more to it than that but, most people choose not to believe that, and feminism as a social movement is frequently demonized as inherently evil. There is nothing sinister about seeking equality. You'll get no speeches or lectures from me. I'm not here to convince, persuade or cajole. The simple truth is that toxic feminism is becoming synonymous with the social movement that seeks to gain equality between men and women in all relevant areas of society. You're looking inside the frame for toxic feminism - and that great, you should always be on your guard. Here are a few of the accomplishments that make Wonder Woman a feminist achievement. * First female lead superhero movie * First female lead super-hero directed by a woman * Second female Director in history to lead a $100 million+ movie All of these things happen routinely for men. Why that is, is neither here nor there when trying to frame a narrative around equality. The above items represent the first steps for the genre and Hollywood as an industry towards equality between men and women pursuing the same enterprise. Fair enough. Though I will point out that WW is not the first female-lead superhero movie. A better claim would be that it was the first big-budget, successful female superhero movie.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 1, 2018 22:42:42 GMT
Your notes make perfect sense if your view of feminism is strictly that of it being a destructive political tool that is frequently misused in service of advancing so-called "female" perspectives and agendas above those of males. There's more to it than that but, most people choose not to believe that, and feminism as a social movement is frequently demonized as inherently evil. There is nothing sinister about seeking equality. You'll get no speeches or lectures from me. I'm not here to convince, persuade or cajole. The simple truth is that toxic feminism is becoming synonymous with the social movement that seeks to gain equality between men and women in all relevant areas of society. You're looking inside the frame for toxic feminism - and that great, you should always be on your guard. Here are a few of the accomplishments that make Wonder Woman a feminist achievement. * First female lead superhero movie * First female lead super-hero directed by a woman * Second female Director in history to lead a $100 million+ movie All of these things happen routinely for men. Why that is, is neither here nor there when trying to frame a narrative around equality. The above items represent the first steps for the genre and Hollywood as an industry towards equality between men and women pursuing the same enterprise. Fair enough. Though I will point out that WW is not the first female-lead superhero movie. A better claim would be that it was the first big-budget, successful female superhero movie. Very true, I updated my original post to state that it is the first credible female-lead super hero movie. We can't count Tank Girl no matter how much we want to. Hee hee hee...
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 1, 2018 22:59:22 GMT
All the talk about how people went easy on the movie because of “RAWR GIRL POWER” or whatever just confuses me, because the movie really wasn’t about girl power or anything of the sort. Gender politics played virtually no part in the movie. The film wasn’t about fighting the patriarchy or achieving equal rights for women, it was about the protagonist coming to terms with the complexity of human nature. Diana was never under the impression that men as a gender are a problem, and even the other Amazons straight up worshipped a male God. I don’t understand how simply having a female protagonist makes a movie feminist. If anything, the movie severely downplayed the feminist aspects of the character. Honestly, The Emoji Movie was more feminist than WW. Wonder Woman floated the notion that there was a nation entirely run by women that was hidden from society, and the story was from one such woman from that nation. That is why it is feminist. Additionally, it changes standard Greco-Roman origin myths to put women front and center in them. Assuming you believe Hippolyta's opening monologue, Amazon's are created by the gods to bring peace to the world by "influencing the hearts of men with love." Zeus creates them as a secret weapon to defeat a rogue god. The Amazons of established Greek and Roman mythology are portrayed as a formidable warrior race and worthy adversaries of both the Greeks and Romans who, ultimately, could not stand against Greek/Roman military and cultural superiority. They are the "other" in Greek and Roman mythology and their conquest/defeat serve the narrative of Greek and Roman superiority and divine right to expansionism. Put succinctly, they are respected, perhaps even feared but, they are never seen as heroes.
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 1, 2018 23:33:53 GMT
Your notes make perfect sense if your view of feminism is strictly that of it being a destructive political tool that is frequently misused in service of advancing so-called "female" perspectives and agendas above those of males. There's more to it than that but, most people choose not to believe that, and feminism as a social movement is frequently demonized as inherently evil. There is nothing sinister about seeking equality. You'll get no speeches or lectures from me. I'm not here to convince, persuade or cajole. The simple truth is that toxic feminism is becoming synonymous with the social movement that seeks to gain equality between men and women in all relevant areas of society. You're looking inside the frame for toxic feminism - and that great, you should always be on your guard. Here are a few of the accomplishments that make Wonder Woman a feminist achievement. * First female lead superhero movie * First female lead super-hero directed by a woman * Second female Director in history to lead a $100 million+ movie All of these things happen routinely for men. Why that is, is neither here nor there when trying to frame a narrative around equality. The above items represent the first steps for the genre and Hollywood as an industry towards equality between men and women pursuing the same enterprise. I will point out that WW is not the first female-lead superhero movie. Most MCU fans here are probably too young to remember that there were female-led superhero movies prior to Wonder Woman. That's why Wonder Woman isn't a feminist movie. If Wonder Woman were the 1st female-led superhero movie, then MCU fans might have an argument for it being feminist. But since there had already been multiple female-led superhero movies prior to Wonder Woman, the argument that Wonder Woman is a feminist movie because the lead character is female is invalid.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 2, 2018 0:38:22 GMT
I will point out that WW is not the first female-lead superhero movie. Most MCU fans here are probably too young to remember that there were female-led superhero movies prior to Wonder Woman. That's why Wonder Woman isn't a feminist movie. If Wonder Woman were the 1st female-led superhero movie, then MCU fans might have an argument for it being feminist. But since there had already been multiple female-led superhero movies prior to Wonder Woman, the argument that Wonder Woman is a feminist movie because the lead character is female is invalid. It's certainly is one of the first credible female-led superhero films.
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