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Post by goz on Oct 29, 2018 1:01:11 GMT
No, that would be you. Have you read all my links with BOTH reliable stats, related to reality and the interpretations of them by experts? It is your misogynist nonsense that is incorrect. Government bodies do not publish incomplete, inadequate or biased statistics with explanation of them.
It is your problem that you don't accept them. That is the point goz, they and you are not reliable enough to give out any advise and guess what, you don't know half as much as you think you do. You run around like a chuck with its head cut off and that is the intention. Because you are precious and weak, you allow yourself to get suckered in. The explanations are distorted and the care and concern is phony, devious and disloyal.
Now bow before the almighty male and be grateful and thankful for what he has done for you woman. Gee, you must really be pissed off that Government agencies are so unreliable when they spend your tax dollar on them! I don't know half as much as I think I do? Well, THAT is precisely why I consult the experts on the stats and their interpretation in these government agencies that you (like Erjenious) don't trust, despite the fact that they might have BOTH males and females working for them, and are peer reviewed and under Government and parliamentary scrutiny!
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 29, 2018 1:07:54 GMT
That is the point goz, they and you are not reliable enough to give out any advise and guess what, you don't know half as much as you think you do. You run around like a chuck with its head cut off and that is the intention. Because you are precious and weak, you allow yourself to get suckered in. The explanations are distorted and the care and concern is phony, devious and disloyal.
Now bow before the almighty male and be grateful and thankful for what he has done for you woman. Gee, you must really be pissed off that Government agencies are so unreliable when they spend your tax dollar on them! I don't know half as much as I think I do? Well, THAT is precisely why I consult the experts on the stats and their interpretation in these government agencies that you (like Erjenious) don't trust, despite the fact that they might have BOTH males and females working for them, and are peer reviewed and under Government and parliamentary scrutiny!
Gees! I'm real impressed by what they do and it appears that you are too. You don't even make sense. I guess when those that have self-serving agendas, they appeal to other arrogant narcissists such as yourself.  Many of these so callled experts are stuck in their own head space zone of how superior and entitled they think they are, just like you. It's very transparent, just like your warped feminist movement.
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Post by goz on Oct 29, 2018 1:10:46 GMT
Gee, you must really be pissed off that Government agencies are so unreliable when they spend your tax dollar on them! I don't know half as much as I think I do? Well, THAT is precisely why I consult the experts on the stats and their interpretation in these government agencies that you (like Erjenious) don't trust, despite the fact that they might have BOTH males and females working for them, and are peer reviewed and under Government and parliamentary scrutiny!
Gees! I'm real impressed by what they do and it appears that you are too. You don't even make sense. I guess when those that have self-serving agendas, they appeal to other arrogant narcissists such as yourself.  Many of these so callled experts are stuck in their own head space zone of how superior and entitled they think they are, just like you. It's very transparent, just like your warped feminist movement. Don't you ever get sick of posting stupid shit when you run out of arguments?
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 29, 2018 1:16:12 GMT
Gees! I'm real impressed by what they do and it appears that you are too. You don't even make sense. I guess when those that have self-serving agendas, they appeal to other arrogant narcissists such as yourself.  Many of these so callled experts are stuck in their own head space zone of how superior and entitled they think they are, just like you. It's very transparent, just like your warped feminist movement. Don't you ever get sick of posting stupid shit when you run out of arguments? Don't you ever get sick of posting your stupid s<>t, when you have NO argument, or if you do, it is so easy to deflate because you are a fool.
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Post by goz on Oct 29, 2018 6:50:45 GMT
Don't you ever get sick of posting stupid shit when you run out of arguments? Don't you ever get sick of posting your stupid s<>t, when you have NO argument, or if you do, it is so easy to deflate because you are a fool. ….and yet my arguments are based on irrefutable Australian and other links to authoritative articles.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 29, 2018 8:28:31 GMT
Don't you ever get sick of posting your stupid s<>t, when you have NO argument, or if you do, it is so easy to deflate because you are a fool. ….and yet my arguments are based on irrefutable Australian and other links to authoritative articles. I couldn't give a rats what your shrill arguments are based on. All your man-hating and ridiculous turd wave feminist cause is, is a tiny insignificant blip in the grander scheme of things, than your self-entitlements and desperate need for attention from men so you can manipulate and control them. I guess that is no different then to what you claim the evil patriarchy of males have done to women. You will never be strong or empowered as a movement and it is scorned and ridiculed by most people with any inkling of common sense and realism. Something that you don't appear to have been born with.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Oct 29, 2018 8:39:26 GMT
….and yet my arguments are based on irrefutable Australian and other links to authoritative articles. I couldn't give a rats what your shrill arguments are based on. All your man-hating and ridiculous turd wave feminist cause is, is a tiny insignificant blip in the grander scheme of things, than your self-entitlements and desperate need for attention from men so you can manipulate and control them. I guess that is no different then to what you claim the evil patriarchy of males have done to women. You will never be strong or empowered as a movement and it is scorned and ridiculed by most people with any inkling of common sense and realism. Something that you don't appear to have been born with. Goz and Toasted Cheese: Play nice, or I'm going to have to separate you.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 29, 2018 8:45:38 GMT
I couldn't give a rats what your shrill arguments are based on. All your man-hating and ridiculous turd wave feminist cause is, is a tiny insignificant blip in the grander scheme of things, than your self-entitlements and desperate need for attention from men so you can manipulate and control them. I guess that is no different then to what you claim the evil patriarchy of males have done to women. You will never be strong or empowered as a movement and it is scorned and ridiculed by most people with any inkling of common sense and realism. Something that you don't appear to have been born with. Goz and Toasted Cheese: Play nice, or I'm going to have to separate you. She just wants any attention from men and tell them what to do and think. I doubt they pay her much attention in her ordinary life.
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Post by thorshairspray on Oct 29, 2018 14:36:21 GMT
What jobs are these that are paying women less than men and are you referring to wages or earnings? Understanding both the stats AND the complicated circumstances and reasons for those stats, which are still evidencing a gender pay gap worldwide, and even in modern Western societies. I have already linked to the situation in my own country from a reliable source. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gapThis is a reasonable representation. We keep going through this Goz and you flat out ignore any answer that isn't sexism. If the majority of Doctorates in STEM are earned by men and the majority of Doctorates in Education, Arts and social sciences are earned by women, how can you not expect there to be an earnings gap?
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Post by goz on Oct 29, 2018 19:49:31 GMT
Understanding both the stats AND the complicated circumstances and reasons for those stats, which are still evidencing a gender pay gap worldwide, and even in modern Western societies. I have already linked to the situation in my own country from a reliable source. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gapThis is a reasonable representation. We keep going through this Goz and you flat out ignore any answer that isn't sexism. If the majority of Doctorates in STEM are earned by men and the majority of Doctorates in Education, Arts and social sciences are earned by women, how can you not expect there to be an earnings gap? … and the real point in all these arguments is to ensure that women get that CHANCE to be able to choose their course of study career and NOT be discriminated against either in the selection process or the pay scale due to their sex. ie equality of opportunity. Neither of the spheres you mention have any intrinsic reason why women can't do them, either physical or mental, so why are these discrepancies? Endemic discrimination and assumptions about girls and females not being able to do certain professions. BTW the numbers are swelling at last ( at least here in Australia) with women in traditionally male dominated professions. There are many women in the mining industry driving heavy moving equipment, there are equal number of female and male medical students, dentists vets and an increasing number of astronomers research scientists computer techs etc. It takes time to wind back the type of endemic discrimination women have suffered since time began. Parliamentarians and CEOs are sadly not catching up so fast due to a 'boy's club' mentality. The last bastions of male domination and ego.
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Post by thorshairspray on Oct 29, 2018 22:45:54 GMT
gozI don't know Goz, I don't know why we see general differences in preference between men and women. I have an idea that you will dismiss so I won't bother. However, you are yet to offer any evidence that women for some reason are unable to take physics or maths degrees in the same numbers as men do because of sexism. Buzzwordy nonsense. IF you have the ability to study engineering you can study engineering. You realise that MP's are elected, right?
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Post by goz on Oct 29, 2018 23:58:01 GMT
goz I don't know Goz, I don't know why we see general differences in preference between men and women. I have an idea that you will dismiss so I won't bother. However, you are yet to offer any evidence that women for some reason are unable to take physics or maths degrees in the same numbers as men do because of sexism. Buzzwordy nonsense. IF you have the ability to study engineering you can study engineering. You realise that MP's are elected, right? I take your point about the choices of subjects and careers and although there is and could never be 'evidence' however it is a fact that there have been complex reason why women have NOT taken up these careers, often to do with societal (patriarchal) expectations for women that are only gradually being overcome as these things are often self fulfilling and it takes few 'leaders' and role models to encourage others. A not so 'buzzwordy' explanation for your consideration. Now this is a very interesting comment that is VERY current in Australian politics, so I will use this as an example. In this country, unless you nominate as an 'Independent candidate' you must be given pre-section by the 'Party'. THIS is where the problem lies. Hence women candidates cannot even get to the election phase without being endorse by the male heavy, 'boy's club' party faithful. It is a fact that when and if women are pre-selected they do well in elections. THEN in our current government ( not the opposition who has an equality programme for women) you get the situation where ( due to the boy's club again ) you only have between 1-6 women in Cabinet. www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-13/fact-check-women-in-cabinet-scott-morrison/10230820
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Post by thorshairspray on Oct 30, 2018 0:40:07 GMT
gozAgain, its a claim without evidence. You are looking for sexism to explain numbers when no explanation is required. If you can produce a significant number of women who wanted to take STEM courses but were refused for gender reasons, then we can talk. As it is you are simply complaining that the numbers are not how you want them. Again, you blaming sexism because you personally don't think the numbers are correct. Show me that equal numbers of women awnt to be MP's but are discriminated against by men during the selection process and we can talk. Until then, you're inventing oppression.
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Post by goz on Oct 30, 2018 3:09:05 GMT
Not to speak ill of the dead, butt that is exac goz Again, its a claim without evidence. You are looking for sexism to explain numbers when no explanation is required. If you can produce a significant number of women who wanted to take STEM courses but were refused for gender reasons, then we can talk. As it is you are simply complaining that the numbers are not how you want them. Again, you blaming sexism because you personally don't think the numbers are correct. Show me that equal numbers of women awnt to be MP's but are discriminated against by men during the selection process and we can talk. Until then, you're inventing oppression. goz Again, its a claim without evidence. You are looking for sexism to explain numbers when no explanation is required. If you can produce a significant number of women who wanted to take STEM courses but were refused for gender reasons, then we can talk. As it is you are simply complaining that the numbers are not how you want them. Again, you blaming sexism because you personally don't think the numbers are correct. Show me that equal numbers of women awnt to be MP's but are discriminated against by men during the selection process and we can talk. Until then, you're inventing oppression. Utter nonsense. Read this again, wgea.gov.au/addressing-pay-equity/what-gender-pay-gapThis is a reputable government agency. If you and Toasted Cheese don't accept their findings on the data available, then it says more about you than me. Not to speak ill of the dead, but that is exactly what Cash used to do when I posted Government sponsored figures from primary sources and statistics about the reduction of gun deaths in Australia since the introduction of Gun Control Laws and Government buy backs of weapons. Even the US Government under Obama accepted it. These are not opinion pieces, these are statutory bodies required to report to Government on the relevant issues. It is laughable that you two bozos think you know better!  
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 2, 2018 20:14:58 GMT
gozI shall quote from your own link "The national gender pay gap is the difference between women’s and men’s average weekly full-time base salary earnings, expressed as a percentage of men’s earnings. It is a measure of women’s overall position in the paid workforce and does not compare like roles." The fact that this simple point continues to elude you baffles me.
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Post by goz on Nov 2, 2018 20:24:15 GMT
goz I shall quote from your own link "The national gender pay gap is the difference between women’s and men’s average weekly full-time base salary earnings, expressed as a percentage of men’s earnings. It is a measure of women’s overall position in the paid workforce and does not compare like roles." The fact that this simple point continues to elude you baffles me. That is quite simply, because it is not the whole point, as reference all through this thread and elsewhere and in the article. Cherry picking and nit picking does not show a sign of comprehension of a problem, rather the opposite. For the dummies. The actual 'reasons' for this pay gap are part of the problem so a comparison of 'comparable roles' is not relevant where there is discrimination or other reasons preventing an accurate comparison. That this eludes you baffles me, though I am pretty sure it is your misogynous confirmatory bias.
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Post by goz on Nov 2, 2018 20:26:46 GMT
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 2, 2018 20:31:22 GMT
gozIt isn't cherry picking, the entire argument you are presenting is that the wage gap represents sexism, but even your own links are not showing this. They are simply showing that men earn more. Of course its relevant. You are not showing that women are paid less for the same work and you are not presenting any evidence at all that womens educational and career choices are not freely taken. You tell me now Goz, if we were both 16, with the same high school grades, what prevents you from choosing a career in physics, but doesn't prevent me?
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Post by goz on Nov 2, 2018 20:41:37 GMT
goz It isn't cherry picking, the entire argument you are presenting is that the wage gap represents sexism, but even your own links are not showing this. They are simply showing that men earn more. Of course its relevant. You are not showing that women are paid less for the same work and you are not presenting any evidence at all that womens educational and career choices are not freely taken. You tell me now Goz, if we were both 16, with the same high school grades, what prevents you from choosing a career in physics, but doesn't prevent me? I usually hate posters who answer a question with a question, however I need to know in what year you and I were both 16. If it is a current situation, I would have to answer that I could not be assured that when I graduated with the same degree and level of experience, that I would get the same pay and conditions and chance of promotion as you, as so far this is not the norm though it has improved in recent years. There is also a 'lag factor' which is why I asked about when we were both entering a profession or making a choice. Read about the lag factor and then the glass ceiling in the article I posted. These days there are many more girls choosing traditionally male oriented careers. One that gives me the most satisfaction is medicine here in Australia. It is about 50/50 HOWEVER theconversation.com/female-doctors-in-australia-are-hitting-glass-ceilings-why-51325and you DARE to say that it is girls/women's choices?
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 2, 2018 21:07:48 GMT
gozNone of those things prevent you from choosing physics, even if they were true. Yes, because the pay gap is largely due to female choices. And again with a link showing disparity if numbers with NO data showing ANY sexism and actually gives two plausible reasons that are not sexism. Do you read these links?
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