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Post by stargazer1682 on Oct 8, 2018 2:20:44 GMT
What are some uncommon or less popular fan theories about the Biffyverse you like to apply to the shows? Feel free to swing for the fences with some off the wall fanwanking too.
I'll start.
I posted this at least once on the old board - I think when Anya created her human persona in The Wish to approach Cordelia, she basically made a knock off Cordelia to temporarily inhabit; like literally, she metaphysically clicked copy on the contents of the Cordelia Chase folder and pasted into the Anya folder. Only it was a rudimentary process, she didn't get every nuance and it wasn't meant to last. That's why she seems to become more of a caricature as time goes on, because as the magics that made this form break down, more and more the only thing that remain are the most basic traits Cordelia had the time, being vain, being greedy... and being in love with Xander. This is why she can drive in season 3, but can't in season 5; the magic has begun to break down and she's forgotten that knowledge and skils. And if she hadn't become a demon again, if Xander had married her, eventually - probably not terribly long after - she would have died, or even simply ceased to exist.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Oct 24, 2018 3:34:30 GMT
This is fan wank territory, in large part because of my dislike for the comics, but I think it tracks pretty well.
Basically, everything from some point in Buffy season 7 takes place in a shared dreamscape, induced by the First; and this was the First's plot all along. I'd say "Conversations with Dead People" would be as good a place to peg the start as any, especially in terms of where the inconsistencies in the story started to occur more frequently; like the whole thing with who Dawn was really talking to during CwDP, or the constantly shifting and inscrutable plan of the First's. A major power of the First's the first time it appears was its ability to infiltrate Angel's dream and even connect Buffy to Angel to witness that dream; yet the best possible reference to this was the time Buffy dream she saw her mom, and even that was left ambiguous as to whether it was really the First trying to intimidate her or Buffy just having a bad dream.
It would have been a gradual process, starting with Sunnydale and spreading; eventually encompassing the world. Yes, this means by necessity that eventually Angel his team would have been affected; ostensibly setting season 5 at least, if not some tail end of season 4, in this dreamscape as well. This is somewhat regrettable, but it still tracks when looked at on the whole. As Buffy goes on, things become more surreal; an army of ubervamps beneath the hellmouth, which no one has found or tried to access, even when the hellmouth has been opened before. The First wants to pick off the Potentials before going after the Slayer, but no wait, it's going to go after Buffy before the Potentials are finished, but no wait, it wants to merge with people like it does Caleb, no it wants to be corporeal(?), no it wants to dig up a Slayer sythe that it doesn't want Buffy to have, which was convenient forged by a secret ancient order who watched the Watchers and embued it with the same power the Slayers have, or something; and the First does this so as to keep it out of Buffy's hands, even though she wouldn't have found it if the First wasn't digging it up; and even when Buffy does get it, the First appears to be nonplussed. Then all the Potentials gets called, then Dawn is a giant and a minotaur and a mecha-Dawn. Angel is gifted the LA branch of Wolfram and Hart, because sure, why not; he ended "world peace," that wasn't really world peace; so he gets paid the big bucks and drive around in fancy cars; and somehow a prophecy about a vampire with a soul doesn't know which vampire with a soul it's talking about; and now Angel's a puppet , then fighting the Senior partners or something in an alley... Then LA goes to hell and Angel rides a dragon, Giles dies, no magic, Willow and some alternate dimension chick hook up, Spike meets aliens and Buffy robs banks to fund their crusade; and Xander and Dawn start dating.............
Or they're all dreaming, albeit sharing the dream; which means the experiences still have a mutual impact, but the physical consequences aren't the same. And because time in dreams moves differently, what seems like years has only been a couple of days. But that's key, because when people go without water for more than three days they start to die, and that's what begins to happen; that's the master plan and the First actually wins. By keeping things low key to start and ultimately letting them guide where things go as the dream goes on, they're never the wiser; until eventually it's too late. The Potentials may even be real, in that they may exist in the real world and become incorporated into the dream as consequence of the connection they have to Buffy; and it's through that connection the First exploits its one true power, putting all of the Potentials and the two Slayers into a deep sleep. First the First had to get rid of the Watchers, who would be monitors the Potentials and would have tried various means to wake them. But once they're out and because they were among the first to fall into the shared sleep state, they're among the first to begin to die from dehydration and lack of food and care. Buffy's dreams of the Bringers being sent to kill Potentials may have been a test of the connection between Buffy and the Potentials through the dreamscape.
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ag25
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Post by ag25 on Nov 2, 2018 17:08:10 GMT
What are some uncommon or less popular fan theories about the Biffyverse you like to apply to the shows? Feel free to swing for the fences with some off the wall fanwanking too. I'll start. I posted this at least once on the old board - I think when Anya created her human persona in The Wish to approach Cordelia, she basically made a knock off Cordelia to temporarily inhabit; like literally, she metaphysically clicked copy on the contents of the Cordelia Chase folder and pasted into the Anya folder. Only it was a rudimentary process, she didn't get every nuance and it wasn't meant to last. That's why she seems to become more of a caricature as time goes on, because as the magics that made this form break down, more and more the only thing that remain are the most basic traits Cordelia had the time, being vain, being greedy... and being in love with Xander. This is why she can drive in season 3, but can't in season 5; the magic has begun to break down and she's forgotten that knowledge and skils. And if she hadn't become a demon again, if Xander had married her, eventually - probably not terribly long after - she would have died, or even simply ceased to exist. I think this is a cool idea! It makes sense and fills some plot holes, and while I agree this is how it started out, I think Anya's human self did eventually become her own person not just a copy of Cordy. I think as the magic wore off, the "copy" of Cordy faded and Anya's original Aud human qualities came out before she became a vengeance demon the first time. But I like your idea and definitely think it could be true to an extent.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Nov 3, 2018 16:26:51 GMT
What are some uncommon or less popular fan theories about the Biffyverse you like to apply to the shows? Feel free to swing for the fences with some off the wall fanwanking too. I'll start. I posted this at least once on the old board - I think when Anya created her human persona in The Wish to approach Cordelia, she basically made a knock off Cordelia to temporarily inhabit; like literally, she metaphysically clicked copy on the contents of the Cordelia Chase folder and pasted into the Anya folder. Only it was a rudimentary process, she didn't get every nuance and it wasn't meant to last. That's why she seems to become more of a caricature as time goes on, because as the magics that made this form break down, more and more the only thing that remain are the most basic traits Cordelia had the time, being vain, being greedy... and being in love with Xander. This is why she can drive in season 3, but can't in season 5; the magic has begun to break down and she's forgotten that knowledge and skils. And if she hadn't become a demon again, if Xander had married her, eventually - probably not terribly long after - she would have died, or even simply ceased to exist. I think this is a cool idea! It makes sense and fills some plot holes, and while I agree this is how it started out, I think Anya's human self did eventually become her own person not just a copy of Cordy. I think as the magic wore off, the "copy" of Cordy faded and Anya's original Aud human qualities came out before she became a vengeance demon the first time. But I like your idea and definitely think it could be true to an extent. I would say maybe to any remnants of Aud coming through with Anya. For one thing, when they flashed back to show Anya's history in season 7, Aud was shown to almost be a polar opposite to who she would become as Anya; she wasn't afraid of bunnies, and rather loved them. She's shown later talking to Halfrek during a revolution she sparked, about capitalism eventually giving way to communism or socialism. It was arguably all written for laughs, to show that in the past Anya had all these ideas and beliefs that are so vastly different than she would later and would be better known for. But all things being Whedon, I think all of that could point to something much more insidious. Not only could that indicate that the persona she took in the Wish was modeled after someone else and subsumed Anyanka, the thousand year old demon when made mortal at the end of "The Wish," it also poses the question of what, if anything of Aud actually remained after she became a demon? To what extent, beyond the physical shell and to some degree the mind, was Anya Aud? For example, and I believe I posed this at some point on the old board, did Anya have a soul when she was turned into a vengeance demon? And would she have had a soul when her power center was destroyed and became human again? Whether or not her soul was stripped away the instant she ceased to be human, I would think that after a thousand years as a demon, there would be little left of it, if she did retain it, let alone any lingering trace of her persona as Aud. I think channel that kind of dark power and causing all the havoc she did, would erode any traces of humanity. Here's another theory after watching "Hells Bells," may not be new for others out there, but it just occurred to me - what if D'Hoffryn set everything in "Hells Bell" in motion, in order to get Anya back as one of his vengeance demons? He could have released the demon/former-philanderer who went after Anya, possibly even giving him the means to do so; all to break-up Xander and Anya in the worst possible way, so that he could get her to return to the fold.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Nov 5, 2018 2:01:48 GMT
Okay, here are a few interlacing theories I've developed over the years:
I'll start with the most straight forward - Buffy's soul really did end up trapped in one of the hell dimensions that began appearing on Earth when she closed the barrier at the expense of her life at the end of season 5. It had nothing to do with the nature of her death or being unworthy for heaven, etc.; just the way the dice fell. Her soul separated from her body upon death, as it normally did, but hell was literally closer to Earth for that brief moment, in comparison to heaven, what with all the hell dimension occupying the same space as Earth at the time. Even though Buffy's death closed the breach the barrier snapped back into place at the same instant and Buffy's soul was on the wrong side; which is arguably the price for closing the rift. The reason Buffy believed she was in heaven was because she raised a little hell of her own during her time in the hell dimension she was trapped in; and managed to make some enemies with some powerful beings. Upon realizing she was being pulled back to Earth, one of those beings managed to exact revenge by taking the opportunity to alter Buffy's memories and replace her entire experience in hell with that of a sense of happiness and contentment; know that upon her return she would believe her friends had ripped her out of paradise instead of rescuing her from hell.
Second theory - Connor is not the son of Angel and Darla, but rather Angel and Buffy. He was conceived, or at least would have been, as a direct result of their reconciliation during "I Will Remember You". His powers derive more from being the product of a Slayer and a former vampire who was remade human. He was destined to be a champion in his own right; a destiny Angel robbed him and the world of when he reset history and erased his son's conception. When Angel tried his soul by sleeping with Darla, his soul reached out to the ether, where it made contact with Connor's at a point where space and time lose all meaning. Because part of Connor's soul was Angel's, the two connected; and Angel became an anchor for Connor, drawing him back into reality and into the closest womb (Darla), where admittedly some higher power lent a helping hand to ensure Darla could not only incubate Connor, but that he would also remain protected until he came to term. Darla would still be his surrogate mother, and her love for the child would still be genuine and made possible through sharing Connor's soul. Had the original timeline been allowed to proceed, Buffy would have returned home, while Angel put his affairs in LA in order before joining her back in Sunnydale. They would soon discover she was pregnant, which would create a number of issues; not the least of which was Angel becoming overly protective of her the longer the pregnancy went on. The Initiative story played out much differently without Buffy and Riley's relationship, including Professor Walsh living and Riley Finn becoming one of her demonoids, who ultimately turns on Walsh and her other soldiers, helping the Scoobies taken them down. Eventually Buffy would be required to be confined to bed rest, prompting the other Scoobies and in particular Angel, to take over her patrol duties. Angel, still struggling months later to learn to compensate for his lack of vampire abilities gets ambushed and overwhelmed by a group of vamps; and one of the vamps tries to turn him. Only instead, due to the regenerative nature of the demon blood that made him human again, the result is turning Angel into a being with many of a vampire's strengths, but none of its weaknesses; he retains his soul, his humanity and continues to live. On the day Buffy goes into labor at the very beginning of season 5, Willow tries a spell intended to make Buffy's labor less difficult, which has the unintended side-effect of everyone closest to Buffy living the day of her labor as Buffy and experiencing the process in her stead - including Xander, Willow, Tara, Giles and Spike. When the baby finally arrives, the spell is broken; Buffy is Buffy, she and Angel are over the moon and the doctor presents them with their baby boy - and their baby girl. They name the boy Connor and the girl Dawn. A sequence of events similar to Holtz taking Connor to Quor'toth may or may not have played out with the twins; or in a similar fashion Buffy or Angel escaping with the children to the hell dimension, where they return fully grown and Glory in search of the Key, who in this timeline was disguised as Buffy's daughter rather than her sister (easier to make a baby with no history and all).
The third theory - Quor'toth is the dimension vampires originate from and where they go when "dusted" - they never die, but rather get sucked to the hell dimension they're all tethered to from moment they were sired, dragging their original soul with them, damning said soul forever. Quor'toth is also the hell dimension Acathla opened a rift to, that Angel was sent at the end of season 2; and is also where Buffy's soul was trapped at the end of season 5, meaning father, mother and son all spent a period of time there.
I'd also say Glory was one of the hell gods who reigned over Quor'toth, and it was Angel's escape that lead to her banishment; though I can't quite reconcile the implication that she had been around, joined with Ben since his birth.....
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Post by stargazer1682 on Nov 17, 2018 15:25:01 GMT
When Darla appears to Connor in "Inside Out," it's actually the First, trying to stop its rival, who would become known as Jasmine, from rising. Besides being an apparition of the spirit of an unholy vampire, which arguably shouldn't exist; when Connor says, "You're not real," her response isn't something as simple as, "of course I am," but "I have her memories, her feelings," which is the sort of nuanced response something like the First would say; it's not really her, but on a technicality it is.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 5, 2019 2:12:16 GMT
At the end of season 7, Andrew gets separated from the rest of the Scoobies, in spite of his appearances on Angel, which is just a facade; he really doesn't know what happened to them. He eventually makes peace with this and settles in LA, where he becomes a script doctor and writer and manages to sell a script based on his concept of "Buffy, the Slayer of the Vampyres," which gets turned into a movie, but the director and actors make changes that completely compromise the vision he had for telling Buffy's story. He subsequently gets a chance to tell the story correctly in the form of a television series, which is based entirely on knowledge he gained from attending Sunnydale High, studying Buffy when he was part of the Trio and later worming his way into the middle circle of the Scoobies. He even creates a spin-off about Angel, aided by Lorne, who sees the show and recognizes how much truth is in the production, along with the Andrew as the creator; and Lorne approaches Andrew and writers for Angel under a pseudonym. Once Buffy ends however, Andrew tries to keep the story going in comic book form, but since at this point he no longer has firsthand knowledge about what happened, he begins making it all up and becomes more and more outlandish and absurd.
That's right, Buffy's real, Lorn is "David Greenwalt and Joss Whedon is Andrew.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 5, 2019 16:00:58 GMT
Vampires do breath, but they don't breath/exhale oxygen/carbon monoxide; whatever it is they take in, they breath out something toxic, maybe methane (which is a byproduct of decomposition). They also excrete this on some level, which is why fire is so dangerous for vampires, because they're extra flammable.
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