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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2018 4:57:38 GMT
homecoming is not a failure for disney but for spiderman fans, long time comic fans who were around during spiderman 2002 and general movie fans, it was. we saw it , many called it the most childish mcu movie to date and others felt we had seen superior spidey movies, it was generic and nothing new. very dimissed.
sony may have well made Spiderman 4 all along.
So what’s your excuse about ‘The Amazing Spider-Man 2’ or ‘Venom’? I need to hear this. the verdict is out venom, it is not as bad as the media say it is, in fact all venom has done is convince people more that critics and the media are biased to mcu movies.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2018 5:02:28 GMT
I love how you write "when" it fails. As if its a foregone conclusion.
At this point I think the X-Men joining the MCU is the only way to top any of the previous movie milestones they've already achieved. No one gives two poops about the Fantastic Four and they already failed to make anything out of the Inhumans. X-Men it is!
Milestone 1: Iron Man starts off the whole thing with a huge success. Milestone 2: Avengers successfully pulls off the shared universe concept bringing in all MCU franchises to date. Milestone 3: Guardians of the Galaxy takes totally unknown, unrelated C-list Marvel characters and turns them into a huge hit. Milestone 4: Civil War brings in Spider-Man over from Sony. Milestone 5: Black Panther is a monster hit all on its own. Milestone 6: Infinity War, the most ambitious movie ever made, is also a monster hit, and hot on the heels of Black Panther.
Outside of Avengers 4 being a monster hit (which is the only foregone conclusion we can really admit) what other new milestones can they achieve?
I know! I know! X-Men come into the MCU and interact with MCU mainstays! It will be huge!!!
AVX: Wolverine Vs. Hulk? Avengers Vs. X-Men anyone?!
I cant deny a certain moistness in my pants at the thought of it...
Evything is huge hit, geez I did not know cross overs toy disney commercial movies making money are mile stones in the world of serious film making.
funny all these movies you mentioned ruined the reputation of comic books.
also dont you see how shallow you are. its all about idiotic cross over AVX: Wolverine Vs. Hulk? Avengers Vs. X-Men anyone?! where is substance? where is story telling, where are the themes? so shallow.
and some dumb mcu usually wonder why mcu will never have a logan or a tdk
poor mcu fans, they hide behind quantity since they have 0 quality, leave that to the good xmen and dc films that have both.
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Post by hobowar on Oct 19, 2018 5:12:32 GMT
How was the fallout when Apocalypse was released?
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2018 6:14:10 GMT
What would disney do? given disney's past, I think we know they will have a pr stunt. I know this from last jedi and spiderman homecoming. the media via disney hyped the movies as the best star wars and spiderman movie until shit the fan. no doubt the media will hype mcu xmen up as the best ever until we find out it is terrible and we have had better.
artistic backlash, i have no doubt many film actors and directors will speak out against mxu xmen. bashing them for their lack of creative thinking, little film making or story telling compared to the past films, this will make mcu xmen loose every credibility. I also think the director of the first mcu xmen will distance himself from the movie.
Fans, we have seen star wars fans and spiderman fans react in a hard way to disney's spiderman and star wars, accusing disney of dumbing them down. and dismissing their movies. spiderman fans are more excited about venom and into the spiderverse to homecoming, star wars fans are happy to watch their old movies. xmen fans have been knowN to be vocal, no doubt disney will try to shut them up like they did star wars fans by accusing them of been racist or sexist or something but they will fail there since xmen fans know the lore.
the fans response will be hard for disney, no doubt xmen fans are going to be big problem for disney as problematic as star wars fans. this could be where MCU now gets nailed to the Coffin once and for all in an already dead genre that no longer has any credibility.
I mean how much of a failure will mcu xmen be? I mean what is winter solider and black panther to DOFP and Logan when it comes to quality movies? LOL
look at the other thread of DOFP vs Logan. how much everyone talked about the great performances and story craft in both movies. mcu movies are not even praised for that kind of things. they are praised for been goffy fun but hated by most film artists and long time comic fans. that is failure in the making for mcu xmen.
Oh good, another raving rant from our resident troll. This must keep you up at night. What will you do when the new films turn out to be popular and critical successes and the previous films are wiped from everyone's memories? You're worrying about something that is years away from happening, but with your obsessive and insecure nature, it's only natural for you to need to speculate to help ease that damaged mind of yours. Typical of bud, he deflects the topic and just tries to insult me. Yawn that tactic has stalled. kind of bizzare, you wanted xmen in the mcu, well can we talk about xmen in the mcu now? why so insecure not to.
Hang on. mcu is popular? where have I heard this? oh right. thatguy also says the same and I tell him MCU is popular to the kids and the dumb masses but very unpopular to grown ups and an intellectual audiences. infact, now i think of it, mcu deserves the popular oscar disney tried to buy for them. leave the real Oscar recognition to X-Men and DC. LOL.
Critical success that has been question and challenged. please who questions the acclaim of xmen or the Sam raimi Spidey movies? little to no one. who questions the critical acclaim of mcu movies, everyone since they make no sense and we know goofy cgi movies with little story should not be getting good reviews and the best part? film artists speak out which just makes mcu acclaim more uncredible
I am obsessive and insecure? nah, just bold and certain in my opinions since i know I am right. also everything I said there has happened. the star wars mess, the hatred film artist have for mcu movies, disney pr stunct, it all happened in reality,
how sad, the best come back is I am damaged when all I am doing is just stating the truth peacefully
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2018 6:20:21 GMT
bud47 People still remember the Sam Raimi films and think of Spider-Man 2 as the best Spider-Man film. I agree. Spider-Man 2 is one of my favorites as well. Not discounting those films at all. Isn't it ironic you are calling people trolls on an xmen forum where this same people seem to be the only people that know xmen the most and back their opinions by sighting many xmen comics , xmen writers and xmen cartoons. last I checked that is not trolling. you are the troll due to your magnitude of lies you tell.
Spiderman 2, this is the movie with kirsten dunst mary jane, who called homecoming a waste of time and no match for the her own spiderman movies.
spiderman 2 the same powerful character study film while homecoming was trying to compete with high school musical?
Us real marvel fans had a high from getting the gift of X2 and Spiderman 2 back to back in 2003 and 2004. now we distance ourselves from the disney mcu movies because we are embarrassed by the goofy childish nature of what marvel have become for folks that grew up with spiderman 2 and x-men 2.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Oct 19, 2018 6:21:38 GMT
Oh good, another raving rant from our resident troll. This must keep you up at night. What will you do when the new films turn out to be popular and critical successes and the previous films are wiped from everyone's memories? You're worrying about something that is years away from happening, but with your obsessive and insecure nature, it's only natural for you to need to speculate to help ease that damaged mind of yours. the dumb masses
I cringe hard everytime you say that. You definitely don’t come across as someone who is much smarter than the “dumb masses”. You can’t even type proper sentences. You type like an 8 year old and sound like a 12 year old. Before calling other people dumb and immature, take a good look at yourself.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Oct 19, 2018 6:24:21 GMT
I cringe hard everytime you say that. You definitely don’t come across as someone who is much smarter than the “dumb masses”. You can’t even type proper sentences. You type like an 8 year old and sound like a 12 year old. Before calling other people dumb, take a good look at yourself. Go easy on me. He’s clearly mentally ill and needs the attention by pretending that he cares about this franchise.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 19, 2018 6:34:45 GMT
Mcu movies besides black panther and winter soldier are failures. The netflix shows are were its at Failures based on that? Audience and critical reception say otherwise. Then how come Netflix has cancelled Iron Fist?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 19, 2018 6:36:19 GMT
There will only be a fallout if it underperforms at box office and critics are not fond of them, it would only be worse if their only source of inspiration were more recent SJW-filled comic books.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Oct 19, 2018 6:42:15 GMT
mcu movies are hated by most film artists and long time comic fans. I’d still like to know where you got that “fact” from.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2018 6:49:49 GMT
There will only be a fallout if it underperforms at box office and critics are not fond of them, it would only be worse if their only source of inspiration were more recent SJW-filled comic books. box office will be irrelevant because it will be about quality.
Critics are trapped. they will be forced to tell the truth this time due to the fact that we have 11 xmen movies to compare with.. especially great ones like X2, DOFP, First Class. it's not like anyone will buy into a gotg-avengers xmen movie as the best xmen movie over most of the xmen movies when we all know the tone , story telling and content is awful for an xmen movie. we know this because we have seen DOFP or X2.
if critics lie to protect mcu xmen like they do with most mcu movies, they will loose the last amount of credibility they have left after disney star wars and mcu movies and will stir up controversy.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2018 7:06:43 GMT
I cringe hard everytime you say that. You definitely don’t come across as someone who is much smarter than the “dumb masses”. You can’t even type proper sentences. You type like an 8 year old and sound like a 12 year old. Before calling other people dumb and immature, take a good look at yourself. mickey rouke already told us this truth after iron man 2 and he has more credibility since he was in the movie.he said mcu movies are for the mindless masses. he was right.
also i think the world got the memo.
lastly the truth is the truth. didn't mcu dumb down spiderman superficially to appeal to kids as confirmed by tom holland himself.
why do people get mad at the truth?
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Oct 19, 2018 7:12:36 GMT
I cringe hard everytime you say that. You definitely don’t come across as someone who is much smarter than the “dumb masses”. You can’t even type proper sentences. You type like an 8 year old and sound like a 12 year old. Before calling other people dumb and immature, take a good look at yourself. mickey rouke already told us this truth after iron man 2 and he has more credibility since he was in the movie.he said mcu movies are for the mindless masses. he was right.
also i think the world got the memo.
lastly the truth is the truth. didst mcu dumbed down spiderman superficially to appeal to kids as confirmed by tom holland himself.
why do people get mad at the truth?
The delusion is strong with this one. "I THINK THIS (AND SO DOES MICKEY ROURKE DERP) THEREFORE IT IS THE TRUTH!1”
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2018 7:21:30 GMT
mickey rouke already told us this truth after iron man 2 and he has more credibility since he was in the movie.he said mcu movies are for the mindless masses. he was right.
also i think the world got the memo.
lastly the truth is the truth. didst mcu dumbed down spiderman superficially to appeal to kids as confirmed by tom holland himself.
why do people get mad at the truth?
The delusion is strong with this one. "I THINK THIS (AND SO DOES MICKEY ROURKE DERP) THEREFORE IT IS THE TRUTH!1” delusion? more like facts as proven by hard evidence from both mickey rouke and tom holland..in their own words.
Mickey Rouke calls MCU movies mindless.
''Mickey Rourke Really Doesn't Like 'Iron Man 2'; Calls Marvel Movies 'Mindless'
''Why Spiderman wont be able to punch people''
I have figured it out with you mcu fans , you people want us to live in a world where facts no longer matter and the truth is no longer important.To call me delusional when nothing I said there was a lie or made up. How pathetic.
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Post by hobowar on Oct 19, 2018 7:23:26 GMT
There will only be a fallout if it underperforms at box office and critics are not fond of them, it would only be worse if their only source of inspiration were more recent SJW-filled comic books. box office will be irrelevant because it will be about quality.
Critics are trapped. they will be forced to tell the truth this time due to the fact that we have 11 xmen movies to compare with.. especially great ones like X2, DOFP, First Class. it's not like anyone will buy into a gotg-avengers xmen movie as the best xmen movie over most of the xmen movies when we all know the tone , story telling and content is awful for an xmen movie. we know this because we have seen DOFP or X2.
if critics lie to protect mcu xmen like they do with most mcu movies, they will loose the last amount of credibility they have left after disney star wars and mcu movies and will stir up controversy.
Twilight and the Fifty Shades movies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All X-Men movies except First Class FACT!
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Oct 19, 2018 7:24:45 GMT
The delusion is strong with this one. "I THINK THIS (AND SO DOES MICKEY ROURKE DERP) THEREFORE IT IS THE TRUTH!1” delusion? more like facts as proven by hard evidence from both mickey rouke and tom holland..in their own words.
Mickey Rouke calls MCU movies mindless.
''Mickey Rourke Really Doesn't Like 'Iron Man 2'; Calls Marvel Movies 'Mindless'
''Why Spiderman wont be able to punch people''
I have figured it out with you mcu fans , you people want us to live in a world where facts no longer matter and the truth is no longer important.To call me delusional when nothing I said there was a lie or made up. How pathetic.
Since when does 2 persons’ opinions = facts or the truth? Wow you’re really out of touch.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 19, 2018 7:30:29 GMT
There will only be a fallout if it underperforms at box office and critics are not fond of them, it would only be worse if their only source of inspiration were more recent SJW-filled comic books. box office will be irrelevant because it will be about quality.
Critics are trapped. they will be forced to tell the truth this time due to the fact that we have 11 xmen movies to compare with.. especially great ones like X2, DOFP, First Class. it's not like anyone will buy into a gotg-avengers xmen movie as the best xmen movie over most of the xmen movies when we all know the tone , story telling and content is awful for an xmen movie. we know this because we have seen DOFP or X2.
if critics lie to protect mcu xmen like they do with most mcu movies, they will loose the last amount of credibility they have left after disney star wars and mcu movies and will stir up controversy.
Box office indicates whether or not a product is successful or not, if the MCU is destroying the credibility for superhero / comic based movies then they wouldn't be doing very well in theatres because nobody would care for them. No critic is being forced to like something they don't, there are exceptions of where critics allow politics and hype to cloud proper analysis of movies but they do not make up the majority - they're not the rule.
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Post by summers8 on Oct 19, 2018 8:16:34 GMT
delusion? more like facts as proven by hard evidence from both mickey rouke and tom holland..in their own words.
Mickey Rouke calls MCU movies mindless.
''Mickey Rourke Really Doesn't Like 'Iron Man 2'; Calls Marvel Movies 'Mindless'
''Why Spiderman wont be able to punch people''
I have figured it out with you mcu fans , you people want us to live in a world where facts no longer matter and the truth is no longer important.To call me delusional when nothing I said there was a lie or made up. How pathetic.
Since when does 2 persons’ opinions = facts or the truth? Wow you’re really out of touch. opinions? they were not opinions.
it is of fact, disney banned spiderman from punching people to dumb him down to appeal to kids more.
it is of fact marvel told mickey rouke to be one dimensional and he felt angry because he oscar prepared for the role and wanted something better and deeper and marvel removed everything he did to make the movie more mindless.
those are not opinions, they are facts. it happened.
This is bad for mcu fans, they are so desperate to deny reality. lol
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Post by thenewnexus on Oct 19, 2018 9:55:47 GMT
Mcu movies besides black panther and winter soldier are failures. The netflix shows are were its at Failures based on that? Audience and critical reception say otherwise. Then how come Netflix has cancelled Iron Fist? They got low standards. Its criminal one of the best products in the mcu got canned while crappy movies keep getting made
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Post by Vassaggo on Oct 19, 2018 11:08:18 GMT
It all depends how you define failure vs successful. I guess I never knew people defined it differently. In this case I would say it is successful if it makes a profit, has critical praise, and generally liked by the public. None of these things makes a movie good or bad, but it can tell us if a movie is a failure or not.
Marvel Studios's history predicts that the MCU X-men will be a financial success, critical success, and the public as a whole will like it.
Financial success will be easy to find out, but doesn't make it a good movie. Financial success can tell us how popular a movie is. This is one way we can judge the general public's opinion on the movie.
Critical success is also easy to find out. If used properly Rotten Tomatoes can give you an overall snap shot of the critics opinion. The percentage tells us the ratio between thumbs up and thumbs down. The rating of 1-10 tells us the average rating the critics gave. None of this tells us if the movie is good or not. The only thing it tells us is whether or not the movie is a critical success or not.
Another way we can gauge the public's opinion is Cinemascore, and to a lesser extent Rotten Tomatoes Audience score and IMDB's rating. In my opinion I trust Cinemascore more when it comes to gauging the general public's opinion of a movie. Of course the public's opinion of a movie doesn't make it a good movie.
I trust IMDB and RT audience score less because Cinemascore has polled movie audience on opening weekend for like 40 years. Cinemascore goes to the public to get a rating. IMDB and RT relies on members of the public to care enough to go to their website, have an account and rate the movie. This skews their ratings in my opinion to a narrower demographic than the general public.
I honestly don't know how you define successful vs failure. It seems yours depends on this ephemera of "true" fans of X-men, a handful of artists, and groups with your opinion on-line. Your "true" fans is shorthand for likes XMU and dislikes the MCU. If you like the MCU as a whole, you can't be an "True" X-men fan. If you have problems with movies in the XMU you can't be a "true" fan either. I thought I was a "true" fan of the X-men, but apparently I'm not. Your definition of failure/success is dependent on a handful of movie maker's opinions. Not their whole opinion, though. Just the part of their opinion that's negative. A movie maker can literally say "I love the MCU, I think sometimes they are hyped up to much." And you would use that to say <Insert Name Here> believes the MCU is over hyped. Blowing of the first part because they were being nice, they have to say that part first, it's a backhanded compliment (which it obviously wasn't), and any other number of reasons you come up with to believe the part of their opinion you believe and dismiss the part that you don't.
I like the MCU as a concept and I like the movies, I don't like all of them, but I wouldn't go as far as to say I hated any MCU movie. Thor 2 I didn't like. I was underwhelmed with The Incredible Hulk. I thought Thor 1 was a bit slow and drags in the 2nd act. Ironman 2 was a wasted opportunity.
I have problems with some movies in the XMU. I would go as far as to say I hated some movies in the X-Verse. I hated X-men The Last Stand and X-men Origins: Wolverine. (XO:W is one of a handful of movies I call abortions) I have a slight dislike almost a "meh" for The Wolverine. I am completely underwhelmed when it comes to Apocalypse. It's not bad enough to fully dislike it. I don't care enough for the movie to actively dislike it. With X-men Origins Wolverine only has 1 thing going for it Liev Schreiber's Sabertooth that's it. With The Wolverine they made 2/3 of a good movie. Then they fucked it up with the last 1/3. So there is a reason to dislike it. Almost giving you what you want and then snatching it away at the last minute. I was more whelmed during Apocalypse than for Incredible Hulk, but not by much. Both movies were underwhelming Incredible Hulk just more so.
You know before I got on the original IMDB boards I didn't know there was such a thing as a Fox-men/XMU fan. I didn't know there were people out there who loved X-Men movies and Hated Marvel Studios/MCU movies. It surprised the shit out of me honestly. Everybody knows of the Marvel vs DC war, hell my 75 year old mother knows that. I was baffled that there were subdivisions inside of Marvel Movie Fan base between MCU vs XMU or MCU vs Sony. Every Comic Book fan I have ever met were hit or miss on XMU, MCU, DCEU, and Nolan movies. Each had their preference of course but going on to IMDB was the first time I saw people Love XMU and Hate the MCU. In so much as they didn't want marvel to contaminate their XMU. Preferring that Marvel, the company that created the X-men, not to have the rights to all their characters. That they would rather not have any more X-men movies if Marvel Studios had the rights. Also the original IMDB was the first time I heard of someone loving the DCEU and hating Nolan movies. I won't mention his name. I hear he is kind of like Candy Man or Beetlejuice. If you say his name enough times then boom there he is. I know a few people irl and online who love the Nolan Batman movies and actively hate a few of the DCEU movies.
I am an easy lay. I go see all Comic Book movies released in theater, but generally speaking I tend to favor MCU. Meaning I am still seeing every comic book movie, but I might get slightly more excited for a MCU movie than the rest. Excluding my brother and people online (on here mostly) I've never met someone who actively hated/disliked Homecoming. They may like Raimi's first 2 Spiderman better, but at worst they were "meh" about Homecoming. In my experience I've found that people only hated Spiderman 3 and The Amazing Spiderman 2. Hell, saying they hated The Amazing Spiderman 2 isn't exactly right, they were severely disappointed by it. I know more than a few people who actively hate Spiderman 3.
So do I think X-men movies will be successful? Yes, in every objective metric we can use to define successful. Financially if it turns a profit during it's theatrical run. Critically if the majority of Critics liked it. Public opinion if majority of the public polled or rated it thinks it's Good. A movies success or failure shouldn't mean that much to us. The only thing that success/failure for a movie means to us is if we get a sequel or not. Other than that it shouldn't matter to you how much money a movie made and what other people's opinion on the movie is. Yes you shouldn't care about the public's opinion, critics' opinion, or people in movie making business' opinion. The only thing that should mean anything to you is if you liked it or not.
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