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Post by goz on Oct 26, 2018 19:54:22 GMT
She's not. She's a theist and has mental health issues.Of course, there are posters on this board who don't let facts get in the way of their judgment. My guess: Sinead O'Connor won't be a Muslima for ever. This doesn’t change the fact that she’s a liberal and a feminist. Let's face it! ANY female you don't like or who challenges your misogynistic fundamentalism is a liberal and a feminist!  |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 19:55:41 GMT
Of course she was!!! She was from Ireland. The 'white' in the flag symbolized Catholicism in Ireland, while the 'orange' symbolized Protestantism. I'm sure she was raised Catholic, but I don't think she was ever particularly religious or even really identify as a Christian for that matter. Just because she wasn't religious, doesn't mean she was any less Christian, if she had been Baptized. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 19:58:45 GMT
It is the parents decision what religion the child will be raised in. Do Jews not have ceremonies for their infant children? Same with all other religions, including Christianity. The child would be raised in the religion of the parents regardless of if they were baptized. Does the church forbid kids from going to church that haven't been baptized? If not then Christianity has always been based on a choice. Judaism did not have a baptism requirement and circumcision is not what made one a religious Jew. No, but, the Church would forbid people who are not Baptized from receiving Holy Communion. Kids make the personal decision to remain within the faith at Confirmation, which they make approximately between the ages of 12 - 15 years. Circumcision makes the guy a Jew, whether he is religious or not (Baby girls have a rite too, in Judaism). |
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Post by goz on Oct 26, 2018 19:59:25 GMT
I'm sure she was raised Catholic, but I don't think she was ever particularly religious or even really identify as a Christian for that matter. Just because she wasn't religious, doesn't mean she was any less Christian, if she had been Baptized. You can see that is illogical, right? If someone denounces Christianity and becomes an atheist, even if they were baptised, they are no longer a Christian. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Oct 26, 2018 19:59:34 GMT
I'm sure she was raised Catholic, but I don't think she was ever particularly religious or even really identify as a Christian for that matter. Just because she wasn't religious, doesn't mean she was any less Christian, if she had been Baptized. I don't quite understand that reasoning, "being a Christian" typically implies believing in the divinity of Christ, not just having some water splashed on you. Imagine if someone went up to you and said "I'm a Christian", and you ask "Oh you accept Christ as your lord and savior" and that person responds with "No". What sense does that make? |
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Post by goz on Oct 26, 2018 20:01:19 GMT
The child would be raised in the religion of the parents regardless of if they were baptized. Does the church forbid kids from going to church that haven't been baptized? If not then Christianity has always been based on a choice. Judaism did not have a baptism requirement and circumcision is not what made one a religious Jew. No, but, the Church would forbid people who are not Baptized from receiving Holy Communion. Kids make the personal decision to remain within the faith at Confirmation, which they make approximately between the ages of 12 - 15 years. Circumcision makes the guy a Jew, whether he is religious or not (Baby girls have a rite too, in Judaism). WTF? Hadn't you better re-phrase that? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Oct 26, 2018 20:21:42 GMT
The child would be raised in the religion of the parents regardless of if they were baptized. Does the church forbid kids from going to church that haven't been baptized? If not then Christianity has always been based on a choice. Judaism did not have a baptism requirement and circumcision is not what made one a religious Jew. No, but, the Church would forbid people who are not Baptized from receiving Holy Communion. Kids make the personal decision to remain within the faith at Confirmation, which they make approximately between the ages of 12 - 15 years. Circumcision makes the guy a Jew, whether he is religious or not (Baby girls have a rite too, in Judaism). Not really, circumcision is what identified some as a tribal Jew. It was about citizenship. A baby would have no way of knowing or caring about the requirements of being a religious Jew which is why I assume there is a Bar Mitzvah which I think is tied to them taking responsibility for their own actions which is what a baptism represents in Christianity.
Christianity is not based on heritage and the fact that people could change their mind about a baptism defeats the purpose of a baptism. But whatever floats your vote... |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 22:13:21 GMT
Just because she wasn't religious, doesn't mean she was any less Christian, if she had been Baptized. You can see that is illogical, right? If someone denounces Christianity and becomes an atheist, even if they were baptised, they are no longer a Christian. Yes, but until they become an atheist, they are Christian, due to being Baptized. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 22:18:01 GMT
Just because she wasn't religious, doesn't mean she was any less Christian, if she had been Baptized. I don't quite understand that reasoning, "being a Christian" typically implies believing in the divinity of Christ, not just having some water splashed on you. Imagine if someone went up to you and said "I'm a Christian", and you ask "Oh you accept Christ as your lord and savior" and that person responds with "No". What sense does that make? Your thinking of Christianity in the way in which an Evangelical thinks of Christianity. A Catholic, an Anglican (Episcopalian), a member of the United Church, or an Orthodox, wouldn't think of responding "Oh, you accept Christ as your lord and saviour," upon meeting someone who says "I'm Christian." They would most likely say "So am I. Which denomination are you? I'm _ _ _ _" |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 22:20:02 GMT
No, but, the Church would forbid people who are not Baptized from receiving Holy Communion. Kids make the personal decision to remain within the faith at Confirmation, which they make approximately between the ages of 12 - 15 years. Circumcision makes the guy a Jew, whether he is religious or not (Baby girls have a rite too, in Judaism). WTF? Hadn't you better re-phrase that? The Bris Millah ceremony brings the baby boy into the Jewish religion (it is when he gets circumcised). The Simchat Bat ceremony brings the girl into the Jewish religion. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 22:23:10 GMT
No, but, the Church would forbid people who are not Baptized from receiving Holy Communion. Kids make the personal decision to remain within the faith at Confirmation, which they make approximately between the ages of 12 - 15 years. Circumcision makes the guy a Jew, whether he is religious or not (Baby girls have a rite too, in Judaism). Not really, circumcision is what identified some as a tribal Jew. It was about citizenship. A baby would have no way of knowing or caring about the requirements of being a religious Jew which is why I assume there is a Bar Mitzvah which I think is tied to them taking responsibility for their own actions which is what a baptism represents in Christianity.
Christianity is not based on heritage and the fact that people could change their mind about a baptism defeats the purpose of a baptism. But whatever floats your vote... The Bar/Bat Mitzvah ceremonies take place when they become adults in the faith. Confirmation is the Christian equivalent in Western Christianity. At Confirmation, the young person makes the conscious decision to remain in the Christian faith (when he/she takes on the Baptismal vows on his/her own), and receive the Seal Of the Holy Spirit. |
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Post by goz on Oct 26, 2018 22:40:18 GMT
You can see that is illogical, right? If someone denounces Christianity and becomes an atheist, even if they were baptised, they are no longer a Christian. Yes, but until they become an atheist, they are Christian, due to being Baptized. Why? Logically it is not essential to be baptised to be a Christian nor do you HAVE to be a Christian just because you are baptised.  |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Oct 26, 2018 23:00:14 GMT
Yes, but until they become an atheist, they are Christian, due to being Baptized. Why? Logically it is not essential to be baptised to be a Christian nor do you HAVE to be a Christian just because you are baptised. You do have to be baptized to be a Christian per Scripture. Otherwise, you just like it for philosophical purposes. You are not a Christian simply because you are baptized and especially if you had no say in the matter. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Oct 26, 2018 23:04:35 GMT
Not really, circumcision is what identified some as a tribal Jew. It was about citizenship. A baby would have no way of knowing or caring about the requirements of being a religious Jew which is why I assume there is a Bar Mitzvah which I think is tied to them taking responsibility for their own actions which is what a baptism represents in Christianity.
Christianity is not based on heritage and the fact that people could change their mind about a baptism defeats the purpose of a baptism. But whatever floats your vote... The Bar/Bat Mitzvah ceremonies take place when they become adults in the faith. Confirmation is the Christian equivalent in Western Christianity. At Confirmation, the young person makes the conscious decision to remain in the Christian faith (when he/she takes on the Baptismal vows on his/her own), and receive the Seal Of the Holy Spirit. Except that it's not since circumcision is not the equivalent of baptism. Baptism was based on knowledge, acceptance, repentance, & conviction...None of which a baby is capable of. It is pointless to do beyond a relgion say so in contradiction to scripture. That isn't a knock, it just is and a religion is more than able to make up their own rules regarding baptism outside of its description in the Bible. However, they cannot redefine what a Scriptural precedent for baptism is. The conscious decision is the baptism. Otherwise, it's just a baby getting wet. |
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Post by goz on Oct 26, 2018 23:14:40 GMT
Why? Logically it is not essential to be baptised to be a Christian nor do you HAVE to be a Christian just because you are baptised. You are not a Christian simply because you are baptized and especially if you had no say in the matter. ..and the problem is? I know many un-baptised Christians who adopted Christianity in adulthood from Atheist or other religious parents. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Oct 26, 2018 23:17:25 GMT
You do have to be baptized to be a Christian per Scripture. Otherwise, you just like it for philosophical purposes.You are not a Christian simply because you are baptized and especially if you had no say in the matter. ..and the problem is? I know many un-baptised Christians who adopted Christianity in adulthood from Atheist or other religious parents. I didn't say there was a problem. I was correcting you. |
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Post by goz on Oct 26, 2018 23:22:14 GMT
..and the problem is? I know many un-baptised Christians who adopted Christianity in adulthood from Atheist or other religious parents. I didn't say there was a problem. I was correcting you. OK. So even if my friends identify and practice as Christians, according to you, they are not? |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 23:31:12 GMT
Yes, but until they become an atheist, they are Christian, due to being Baptized. Why? Logically it is not essential to be baptised to be a Christian nor do you HAVE to be a Christian just because you are baptised. Baptism is the Sacrament of Initiation into the faith. In fact, contrary to what many Evangelical Protestants teach, Baptism is how one becomes a Born Again Christian. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 23:38:57 GMT
The Bar/Bat Mitzvah ceremonies take place when they become adults in the faith. Confirmation is the Christian equivalent in Western Christianity. At Confirmation, the young person makes the conscious decision to remain in the Christian faith (when he/she takes on the Baptismal vows on his/her own), and receive the Seal Of the Holy Spirit. Except that it's not since circumcision is not the equivalent of baptism. Baptism was based on knowledge, acceptance, repentance, & conviction...None of which a baby is capable of. It is pointless to do beyond a relgion say so in contradiction to scripture. That isn't a knock, it just is and a religion is more than able to make up their own rules regarding baptism outside of its description in the Bible. However, they cannot redefine what a Scriptural precedent for baptism is. The conscious decision is the baptism. Otherwise, it's just a baby getting wet. Yes it is. Colossians chapter 2, verses 11 - 12. Baptism was the Rite which replaced Circumcision, for the Christian community. While the baby is not capable of "knowledge, acceptance, repentance, & conviction," his/her parents certainly are, as are the Christian adults that are chosen to be the child's godparents, hence, they make the decision for the baby, until he/she is old enough to take those vows on his/her own. This is also the reason why infant Baptism is also known as 'Christening." Because he/she becomes a Christian when he/she is Baptized. The baby becomes Born Again in Christ. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 23:43:46 GMT
Sinead O'Connor needs Help: Rebel Media |
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