|
|
Post by goz on Oct 26, 2018 23:46:09 GMT
Why? Logically it is not essential to be baptised to be a Christian nor do you HAVE to be a Christian just because you are baptised.  Baptism is the Sacrament of Initiation into the faith. In fact, contrary to what many Evangelical Protestants teach, Baptism is how one becomes a Born Again Christian. NOT in ALL denominations of Christianity! |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Oct 26, 2018 23:57:15 GMT
Baptism is the Sacrament of Initiation into the faith. In fact, contrary to what many Evangelical Protestants teach, Baptism is how one becomes a Born Again Christian. NOT in ALL denominations of Christianity! No, but, in the original denominations of Christianity (Catholic & Orthodox). |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Oct 27, 2018 0:04:38 GMT
NOT in ALL denominations of Christianity! No, but, in the original denominations of Christianity (Catholic & Orthodox). What does that matter? Historically we have had a couple of Reformations since then with the establishment of many legitimate churches! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 0:22:25 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Oct 27, 2018 2:39:34 GMT
No, but, in the original denominations of Christianity (Catholic & Orthodox). What does that matter? Historically we have had a couple of Reformations since then with the establishment of many legitimate churches! I kinda already know that. The Protestant Reformation was all about allowing the average Christian to read & interpret the Holy Bible for themselves. However, at the time Protestantism first came along, they only went with studying the Holy Bible, & not the other historical Christian writings, such as those of the Church Fathers, etc. Because of this, in the past 500 years, since Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis, there have been thousands & thousands of Christian sects coming along, because everyone disagrees with one another, regarding what the Holy Bible teaches. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Oct 27, 2018 7:27:03 GMT
What does that matter? Historically we have had a couple of Reformations since then with the establishment of many legitimate churches! I kinda already know that. The Protestant Reformation was all about allowing the average Christian to read & interpret the Holy Bible for themselves. However, at the time Protestantism first came along, they only went with studying the Holy Bible, & not the other historical Christian writings, such as those of the Church Fathers, etc. Because of this, in the past 500 years, since Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis, there have been thousands & thousands of Christian sects coming along, because everyone disagrees with one another, regarding what the Holy Bible teaches. IF you kind'a already know that, why do you dispute that Christians don't necessarily have to have the Baptism that the Catholic Church espouse, to be Christian? My next door neighbour is a lay preacher in the Anglican church, plays the organ in his church and is a marriage celebrant, who would be very disappointed if you called him a non-Christian... Do you even think about this when you make these Catholic biased pronouncements? |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Oct 27, 2018 10:54:09 GMT
Except that it's not since circumcision is not the equivalent of baptism. Baptism was based on knowledge, acceptance, repentance, & conviction...None of which a baby is capable of. It is pointless to do beyond a relgion say so in contradiction to scripture. That isn't a knock, it just is and a religion is more than able to make up their own rules regarding baptism outside of its description in the Bible. However, they cannot redefine what a Scriptural precedent for baptism is. The conscious decision is the baptism. Otherwise, it's just a baby getting wet. Yes it is. Colossians chapter 2, verses 11 - 12. Baptism was the Rite which replaced Circumcision, for the Christian community. While the baby is not capable of "knowledge, acceptance, repentance, & conviction," his/her parents certainly are, as are the Christian adults that are chosen to be the child's godparents, hence, they make the decision for the baby, until he/she is old enough to take those vows on his/her own. This is also the reason why infant Baptism is also known as 'Christening." Because he/she becomes a Christian when he/she is Baptized. The baby becomes Born Again in Christ. Again those verses are tied to identity not the reason for baptism. He is discussing the circumcision with Gentiles who did not need to be physically circumcised to be Christian. Just as circumcision was an identifier for God's people in Israel, baptism is the identifier for Christians. But a person would still need to choose to be baptized. Paul was not talking to a bunch of babies we he wrote this. |
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Oct 27, 2018 12:19:54 GMT
Not a surprise. She’s a liberal and a feminist. I read somewhere recently that 62% of British converts to Islam are women which I find astonishing. It is not astonishing that more converts to Islam are woman in the UK. There is a big reason for that. Muslim women are disallowed by Islam to marry people of other faith. A Muslim man is allowed and also encouraged to ask the women who marries them to change their religion to Islam. Most of these converts would be the women who get married to Muslims.
While it is not allowed by Islam to let Muslim omen marry a non-Muslim men the British legal system would allow such a thing. But given the social pressure on Muslims to follow customs, very few Muslim women actually marry non-Muslim men.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Oct 27, 2018 13:18:09 GMT
Not a surprise. She’s a liberal and a feminist. I read somewhere recently that 62% of British converts to Islam are women which I find astonishing. It is not astonishing that more converts to Islam are woman in the UK. There is a big reason for that. Muslim women are disallowed by Islam to marry people of other faith. A Muslim man is allowed and also encouraged to ask the women who marries them to change their religion to Islam. Most of these converts would be the women who get married to Muslims.
While it is not allowed by Islam to let Muslim omen marry a non-Muslim men the British legal system would allow such a thing. But given the social pressure on Muslims to follow customs, very few Muslim women actually marry non-Muslim men.
I know this. And it highlights yet another example of Islamic misogyny. What I find astonishing is why would any western woman put herself in a position to have to convert to the most misogynistic oppressive and blatantly false religion on the planet in the first place? 🤷♂️ |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Oct 27, 2018 14:20:18 GMT
I kinda already know that. The Protestant Reformation was all about allowing the average Christian to read & interpret the Holy Bible for themselves. However, at the time Protestantism first came along, they only went with studying the Holy Bible, & not the other historical Christian writings, such as those of the Church Fathers, etc. Because of this, in the past 500 years, since Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis, there have been thousands & thousands of Christian sects coming along, because everyone disagrees with one another, regarding what the Holy Bible teaches. IF you kind'a already know that, why do you dispute that Christians don't necessarily have to have the Baptism that the Catholic Church espouse, to be Christian? My next door neighbour is a lay preacher in the Anglican church, plays the organ in his church and is a marriage celebrant, who would be very disappointed if you called him a non-Christian... Do you even think about this when you make these Catholic biased pronouncements? I never said Protestants were non-Christians. Good for your next door neighbour. As an Anglican, he would have been Baptized as a baby too. My father was Anglican too. |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Oct 27, 2018 14:24:40 GMT
Yes it is. Colossians chapter 2, verses 11 - 12. Baptism was the Rite which replaced Circumcision, for the Christian community. While the baby is not capable of "knowledge, acceptance, repentance, & conviction," his/her parents certainly are, as are the Christian adults that are chosen to be the child's godparents, hence, they make the decision for the baby, until he/she is old enough to take those vows on his/her own. This is also the reason why infant Baptism is also known as 'Christening." Because he/she becomes a Christian when he/she is Baptized. The baby becomes Born Again in Christ. Again those verses are tied to identity not the reason for baptism. He is discussing the circumcision with Gentiles who did not need to be physically circumcised to be Christian. Just as circumcision was an identifier for God's people in Israel, baptism is the identifier for Christians. But a person would still need to choose to be baptized. Paul was not talking to a bunch of babies we he wrote this. No, the parents would have to choose for their babies to be Baptized. For the People of Israel, the parents made the arrangements for their infant sons to be Circumcised at 8 days, & receive their names. So too, the Christian parents make the arrangements for their own babies to be Baptized (Christened). Of course St. Paul was to talking to a bunch of babies. He was talking to their parents. However, these same babies, will later choose for themselves to receive the Holy Spirit at their Confirmation. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 18:14:14 GMT
She was batshit crazy before... she's batshit crazy now.
|
|
|
|
Post by maya55555 on Oct 27, 2018 18:16:20 GMT
clusium
You are sealed in GOD. What is sad , as I heard from Anglican Minister, Rev. Willis; many parents are failing to Baptize their children . He feels as Chief Exorcist, that that is accounting for the rise in hauntings (demonic) in Britain.
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Oct 27, 2018 18:30:16 GMT
clusium
You are sealed in GOD. What is sad , as I heard from Anglican Minister, Rev. Willis; many parents are failing to Baptize their children . He feels as Chief Exorcist, that that is accounting for the rise in hauntings (demonic) in Britain.
Very interesting!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by maya55555 on Oct 27, 2018 18:44:44 GMT
clusium
More newsletters
It has been dismissed by sceptics who believe it is the stuff of Hollywood horror movies rather than real life.
But when Pope Francis stopped to lay hands on a disabled boy last week some believe he shone a new light on the mysterious world of exorcism.
And while many people believe it has no place in modern society, there are still ministers across Britain who insist that they are casting out evil spirits.
Reverend Tom Willis is the UK’s leading exorcist – a man who has been called in to tackle poltergeists and the possessed for the past 50 years.
In a lifetime dealing with the supernatural, he says he has seen things that cannot be explained, including ornaments flying through walls and bodiless voices calling to him from beyond the grave.
And at the age of 82, the Church of England minister is still in demand around the world from people who want his help to destroy what they believe are evil spirits.
His expertise is so valued in Britain that even the police call on him.
Rev Willis says: “The people who come to me are really frightened. I’ve even had atheists tell me, ‘I don’t believe in ghosts but I can’t explain what is happening’.”
Exorcist horror
A scene from the Exorcist film
He adds: “I always say, ‘you don’t get possessed just walking to the supermarket’. You have to look for a reason why it should have happened. Often, people have dabbled quite strongly in evil.”
Rev Willis found his spooky vocation while working as a minister in York.
When a parishioner asked for help dealing with her haunted house – something Rev Willis says is more common than people think – he discovered he had a gift for restoring peace.
Since then he’s found himself in some strange and scary situations – including the time he helped rid a medium of a powerful evil spirit.
Rev Willis says the man approached him after giving a speech about the supernatural.
The stranger kept tapping his shoulder and talking to an invisible companion. Rev Willis was unsure if the medium was pretending... until the conversation took an unexpected turn.
The reverend says: “When I mentioned the blood of Christ, his voice changed. He said, ‘don’t talk about that’ and started shaking and rubbing himself. At that point I thought ‘you really have got something evil in you’.”
Rev Willis is part of the international exorcist community and has heard some startling stories on his travels. Like the time one of his colleagues was asked to perform an exorcism in India on a girl who couldn’t speak.
“The colleague told me that when he blessed her she began to shake,” he explains. “He asked the girl what her name was and although she didn’t usually talk, a weird voice said, ‘I am stubbornness’.
A ghostly spirit rising from a body (Image: Getty Images)
“He commanded the evil to depart and she fell back. He went on down the line, blessing people. Then when he looked back she had started singing hymns in her normal language.”
Rev Willis is often called on to rid a haunted house of ghosts.
He had a particularly chilling experience when he went to the home of a policeman who feared that his home had become possessed.
As Rev Willis sat with the officer and his family, ornaments suddenly started to move.
“I couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” he says.
“After 10 minutes the father said, ‘the dog ornament has gone again’. I looked at the mantelpiece and it had.
Then I heard a thump in the kitchen and said ‘nobody move’. I went to take a look and the ornament was there on the kitchen floor. It had gone right through a brick wall.”
Speaking about the continuing demand for his services – including from the authorities – he says: “I still get a couple of calls a week. The police say ‘we think this one is more your field of expertise’.”
Rev Willis has encountered his fair share of sceptics over the decades but he says that he is convinced by what he has witnessed.
He adds that one in 10 people will claim to see a ghost during their lifetime.
Another scene from the controversial film (Image: Press Association)
Now one of his four daughters is documenting his spooky experiences for a book which will feature the strangest cases he has dealt with.
And while he’s happy to talk about some of the frightening episodes, he is keen to point out that not every claim is genuine.
He says some of the reports of hauntings and possessions are made by attention seekers as well as people with mental health problems.
Rev Willis knows that some people dismiss every claim about evil spirits but he says what the Pope did in the Vatican eight days ago has sparked a much-needed debate about the subject.
The Pontiff touched the head of a boy who then convulsed and slumped in his wheelchair.
Some say it was an exorcism, though the Vatican has denied it.
Even so, Rev Willis says: “This Pope and the last have encouraged the ministry of exorcism and set up conferences and colleges because it is a problem that is brought to them.”
This means exorcists like Rev Willis will continue to be called into action, tending to the spiritual needs of their flocks and the wider population.
It isn’t always an easy task but the minister says the strength of his faith continues to guide him.
It can be uncomfortable if I lay my hands on someone for healing and they growl at me in a weird voice,” he explains. “And I might bring another couple of priests in to help me.
“In the end, I know evil exists but it is afraid of good. I need to be wary of it but I should not be afraid. That is what my work is all about.”
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terrifying-tales-real-life-exorcist-1914530
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Oct 27, 2018 19:05:41 GMT
clusium
More newsletters
It has been dismissed by sceptics who believe it is the stuff of Hollywood horror movies rather than real life.
But when Pope Francis stopped to lay hands on a disabled boy last week some believe he shone a new light on the mysterious world of exorcism.
And while many people believe it has no place in modern society, there are still ministers across Britain who insist that they are casting out evil spirits.
Reverend Tom Willis is the UK’s leading exorcist – a man who has been called in to tackle poltergeists and the possessed for the past 50 years.
In a lifetime dealing with the supernatural, he says he has seen things that cannot be explained, including ornaments flying through walls and bodiless voices calling to him from beyond the grave.
And at the age of 82, the Church of England minister is still in demand around the world from people who want his help to destroy what they believe are evil spirits.
His expertise is so valued in Britain that even the police call on him.
Rev Willis says: “The people who come to me are really frightened. I’ve even had atheists tell me, ‘I don’t believe in ghosts but I can’t explain what is happening’.”
Exorcist horror
A scene from the Exorcist film
He adds: “I always say, ‘you don’t get possessed just walking to the supermarket’. You have to look for a reason why it should have happened. Often, people have dabbled quite strongly in evil.”
Rev Willis found his spooky vocation while working as a minister in York.
When a parishioner asked for help dealing with her haunted house – something Rev Willis says is more common than people think – he discovered he had a gift for restoring peace.
Since then he’s found himself in some strange and scary situations – including the time he helped rid a medium of a powerful evil spirit.
Rev Willis says the man approached him after giving a speech about the supernatural.
The stranger kept tapping his shoulder and talking to an invisible companion. Rev Willis was unsure if the medium was pretending... until the conversation took an unexpected turn.
The reverend says: “When I mentioned the blood of Christ, his voice changed. He said, ‘don’t talk about that’ and started shaking and rubbing himself. At that point I thought ‘you really have got something evil in you’.”
Rev Willis is part of the international exorcist community and has heard some startling stories on his travels. Like the time one of his colleagues was asked to perform an exorcism in India on a girl who couldn’t speak.
“The colleague told me that when he blessed her she began to shake,” he explains. “He asked the girl what her name was and although she didn’t usually talk, a weird voice said, ‘I am stubbornness’.
A ghostly spirit rising from a body (Image: Getty Images)
“He commanded the evil to depart and she fell back. He went on down the line, blessing people. Then when he looked back she had started singing hymns in her normal language.”
Rev Willis is often called on to rid a haunted house of ghosts.
He had a particularly chilling experience when he went to the home of a policeman who feared that his home had become possessed.
As Rev Willis sat with the officer and his family, ornaments suddenly started to move.
“I couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” he says.
“After 10 minutes the father said, ‘the dog ornament has gone again’. I looked at the mantelpiece and it had.
Then I heard a thump in the kitchen and said ‘nobody move’. I went to take a look and the ornament was there on the kitchen floor. It had gone right through a brick wall.”
Speaking about the continuing demand for his services – including from the authorities – he says: “I still get a couple of calls a week. The police say ‘we think this one is more your field of expertise’.”
Rev Willis has encountered his fair share of sceptics over the decades but he says that he is convinced by what he has witnessed.
He adds that one in 10 people will claim to see a ghost during their lifetime.
Another scene from the controversial film (Image: Press Association)
Now one of his four daughters is documenting his spooky experiences for a book which will feature the strangest cases he has dealt with.
And while he’s happy to talk about some of the frightening episodes, he is keen to point out that not every claim is genuine.
He says some of the reports of hauntings and possessions are made by attention seekers as well as people with mental health problems.
Rev Willis knows that some people dismiss every claim about evil spirits but he says what the Pope did in the Vatican eight days ago has sparked a much-needed debate about the subject.
The Pontiff touched the head of a boy who then convulsed and slumped in his wheelchair.
Some say it was an exorcism, though the Vatican has denied it.
Even so, Rev Willis says: “This Pope and the last have encouraged the ministry of exorcism and set up conferences and colleges because it is a problem that is brought to them.”
This means exorcists like Rev Willis will continue to be called into action, tending to the spiritual needs of their flocks and the wider population.
It isn’t always an easy task but the minister says the strength of his faith continues to guide him.
It can be uncomfortable if I lay my hands on someone for healing and they growl at me in a weird voice,” he explains. “And I might bring another couple of priests in to help me.
“In the end, I know evil exists but it is afraid of good. I need to be wary of it but I should not be afraid. That is what my work is all about.”
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terrifying-tales-real-life-exorcist-1914530
It's a shame Halloween isn't celebrated in Britain (they have Guy Fawkes Day). With all the hauntings, etc., it would be a great holiday for them. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Oct 27, 2018 23:35:43 GMT
IF you kind'a already know that, why do you dispute that Christians don't necessarily have to have the Baptism that the Catholic Church espouse, to be Christian? My next door neighbour is a lay preacher in the Anglican church, plays the organ in his church and is a marriage celebrant, who would be very disappointed if you called him a non-Christian... Do you even think about this when you make these Catholic biased pronouncements? I never said Protestants were non-Christians. Good for your next door neighbour. As an Anglican, he would have been Baptized as a baby too. My father was Anglican too. You know this, how? |
|
|
|
Post by rizdek on Oct 28, 2018 1:07:52 GMT
If it turns out Islam is true and Allah the one true God, she'll be the lucky one...not those following false gods. |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 3:14:24 GMT
I never said Protestants were non-Christians. Good for your next door neighbour. As an Anglican, he would have been Baptized as a baby too. My father was Anglican too. You know this, how? Well, unless he converted to Anglicanism as an adult, he was Baptized as a baby. |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 3:23:02 GMT
If it turns out Islam is true and Allah the one true God, she'll be the lucky one...not those following false gods. The thing is, back when she was Christian, she had a very negative view of the faith, as she considered it to be misogynistic (for reasons such as women not being allowed to become priests, etc). Islam (both the Sunni & Shia branches) is way more restricting for women, than Christianity ever could be!! She also got away with a lot of anti-christian attacks, such as ripping up a photo of the Pope, on national television, etc. The worst thing that happened to her, was being booed off of the stage at a Bob Dylan tribute concert. If Sinead O'Connor ripped up a photo of an important Muslim spiritual leader, on national television, she would have had a fatwa put on her. |
|
