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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 28, 2018 3:26:02 GMT
The child would be raised in the religion of the parents regardless of if they were baptized. Does the church forbid kids from going to church that haven't been baptized? If not then Christianity has always been based on a choice. Judaism did not have a baptism requirement and circumcision is not what made one a religious Jew. No, but, the Church would forbid people who are not Baptized from receiving Holy Communion. Kids make the personal decision to remain within the faith at Confirmation, which they make approximately between the ages of 12 - 15 years. Circumcision makes the guy a Jew, whether he is religious or not (Baby girls have a rite too, in Judaism). Are you serious?
All these things are just an abstract of mindset belief that can't possibly be proven. And no, circumcision does not make someone a Jew, that is a fallacy as well. It is a belief in Judaism that has to be beholden. That then brings up the argument is Jewish an ethnicity or just born out of religious belief?
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 28, 2018 3:28:01 GMT
Like most lost and confused people, it appears that O'Connor is looking for meaning and connection in this world. She doesn't really get it and identifies spirituality, or something holistic, as being compartmentalized or separate.
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Post by rizdek on Oct 28, 2018 8:13:19 GMT
If it turns out Islam is true and Allah the one true God, she'll be the lucky one...not those following false gods. The thing is, back when she was Christian, she had a very negative view of the faith, as she considered it to be misogynistic (for reasons such as women not being allowed to become priests, etc). Islam (both the Sunni & Shia branches) is way more restricting for women, than Christianity ever could be!! She also got away with a lot of anti-christian attacks, such as ripping up a photo of the Pope, on national television, etc. The worst thing that happened to her, was being booed off of the stage at a Bob Dylan tribute concert. If Sinead O'Connor ripped up a photo of an important Muslim spiritual leader, on national television, she would have had a fatwa put on her. And that means what to my point? That Christianity and Christians in general just aren't that sincere? I would agree...at best Christians seem to try to have it both ways. They have their religion and their idyllic eternity, but happily apply it inconsistently and generally TO their own personal and material benefit cherry-picking the tidbits that make them happy and setting aside the inconvenient parts. Very little "take up they cross and follow me" and "love you enemies" and "do good to those who abuse you" and "if someone asks for your coat, give him your cloak as well" attitude, especially among American Christians. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 15:06:51 GMT
The thing is, back when she was Christian, she had a very negative view of the faith, as she considered it to be misogynistic (for reasons such as women not being allowed to become priests, etc). Islam (both the Sunni & Shia branches) is way more restricting for women, than Christianity ever could be!! She also got away with a lot of anti-christian attacks, such as ripping up a photo of the Pope, on national television, etc. The worst thing that happened to her, was being booed off of the stage at a Bob Dylan tribute concert. If Sinead O'Connor ripped up a photo of an important Muslim spiritual leader, on national television, she would have had a fatwa put on her. And that means what to my point? That Christianity and Christians in general just aren't that sincere? I would agree...at best Christians seem to try to have it both ways. They have their religion and their idyllic eternity, but happily apply it inconsistently and generally TO their own personal and material benefit cherry-picking the tidbits that make them happy and setting aside the inconvenient parts. Very little "take up they cross and follow me" and "love you enemies" and "do good to those who abuse you" and "if someone asks for your coat, give him your cloak as well" attitude, especially among American Christians. I don't think you see my own point. I'm not disputing Muslims commitment to their religion, anymore than Christians' commitment to theirs'. Sinead O'Connor never protested the core doctrines of the Christian faith. She complained about stuff such as no women priests, Church rule in Ireland, etc. Islam is 10 times all this. So, her conversion to the religion makes no sense. If she lived in a Muslim nation, & dared to criticize the religion for having no woman imams or mullahs, etc., women having to share their husbands with other women (something that is not a problem in Christianity, as Christian marriages are monogamous), & Muslim law running the nation, she'd be stoned to death. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 15:21:14 GMT
The thing is, back when she was Christian, she had a very negative view of the faith, as she considered it to be misogynistic (for reasons such as women not being allowed to become priests, etc). Islam (both the Sunni & Shia branches) is way more restricting for women, than Christianity ever could be!! She also got away with a lot of anti-christian attacks, such as ripping up a photo of the Pope, on national television, etc. The worst thing that happened to her, was being booed off of the stage at a Bob Dylan tribute concert. If Sinead O'Connor ripped up a photo of an important Muslim spiritual leader, on national television, she would have had a fatwa put on her. And that means what to my point? That Christianity and Christians in general just aren't that sincere? I would agree...at best Christians seem to try to have it both ways. They have their religion and their idyllic eternity, but happily apply it inconsistently and generally TO their own personal and material benefit cherry-picking the tidbits that make them happy and setting aside the inconvenient parts. Very little "take up they cross and follow me" and "love you enemies" and "do good to those who abuse you" and "if someone asks for your coat, give him your cloak as well" attitude, especially among American Christians. This video alone, sums up my entire point: |
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Post by rizdek on Oct 28, 2018 17:07:05 GMT
And that means what to my point? That Christianity and Christians in general just aren't that sincere? I would agree...at best Christians seem to try to have it both ways. They have their religion and their idyllic eternity, but happily apply it inconsistently and generally TO their own personal and material benefit cherry-picking the tidbits that make them happy and setting aside the inconvenient parts. Very little "take up they cross and follow me" and "love you enemies" and "do good to those who abuse you" and "if someone asks for your coat, give him your cloak as well" attitude, especially among American Christians. This video alone, sums up my entire point: God works in mysterious ways, so maybe God intends for women's faces to be covered. How would one know? And if that's true, the those converting to Islam might be the lucky ones.
I'm not religious and don't think any religious rituals/garments/practices are of any value and some are down right gross...even in the Christian religion. So the degree to which someone finds Muslim practices...their "inhumane" punishments, their treatment of women, their penchant for violence...wrong is irrelevant unless they are "wrong" in their understanding of what God wants. If they are right, ie that God want's people to believe and do those things, then whether "non-believers" find all that stuff distasteful is irrelevant.
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Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 17:54:58 GMT
This video alone, sums up my entire point: God works in mysterious ways, so maybe God intends for women's faces to be covered. How would one know? And if that's true, the those converting to Islam might be the lucky ones.
I'm not religious and don't think any religious rituals/garments/practices are of any value and some are down right gross...even in the Christian religion. So the degree to which someone finds Muslim practices...their "inhumane" punishments, their treatment of women, their penchant for violence...wrong is irrelevant unless they are "wrong" in their understanding of what God wants. If they are right, ie that God want's people to believe and do those things, then whether "non-believers" find all that stuff distasteful is irrelevant.
If God Intended for women's faces to be covered, then He Would Have Intended for men's faces to be covered too. If it all boiled down to what God Wants, then why did Sinead O'Connor feel differently as a Christian? The reason women cannot be ordained as priests, is because it is what God Wants. Rather, He lets them serve Him by becoming His Brides (i.e.: Nuns, Religious Sisters, Chaste missionaries, etc). |
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Post by goz on Oct 28, 2018 22:13:11 GMT
Well, unless he converted to Anglicanism as an adult, he was Baptized as a baby. He did. |
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Post by goz on Oct 28, 2018 22:17:31 GMT
God works in mysterious ways, so maybe God intends for women's faces to be covered. How would one know? And if that's true, the those converting to Islam might be the lucky ones.
I'm not religious and don't think any religious rituals/garments/practices are of any value and some are down right gross...even in the Christian religion. So the degree to which someone finds Muslim practices...their "inhumane" punishments, their treatment of women, their penchant for violence...wrong is irrelevant unless they are "wrong" in their understanding of what God wants. If they are right, ie that God want's people to believe and do those things, then whether "non-believers" find all that stuff distasteful is irrelevant.
If it all boiled down to what God Wants, then why did Sinead O'Connor feel differently as a Christian? The reason women cannot be ordained as priests, is because it is what God Wants. Rather, He lets them serve Him by becoming His Brides (i.e.: Nuns, Religious Sisters, Chaste missionaries, etc). How do you know that? |
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Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 22:55:24 GMT
If God Intended for women's faces to be covered, then He Would Have Intended for men's faces to be covered too. If it all boiled down to what God Wants, then why did Sinead O'Connor feel differently as a Christian? The reason women cannot be ordained as priests, is because it is what God Wants. Rather, He lets them serve Him by becoming His Brides (i.e.: Nuns, Religious Sisters, Chaste missionaries, etc). How do you know that? Uhm...because I'm Catholic. |
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Post by rizdek on Oct 28, 2018 23:04:47 GMT
God works in mysterious ways, so maybe God intends for women's faces to be covered. How would one know? And if that's true, the those converting to Islam might be the lucky ones.
I'm not religious and don't think any religious rituals/garments/practices are of any value and some are down right gross...even in the Christian religion. So the degree to which someone finds Muslim practices...their "inhumane" punishments, their treatment of women, their penchant for violence...wrong is irrelevant unless they are "wrong" in their understanding of what God wants. If they are right, ie that God want's people to believe and do those things, then whether "non-believers" find all that stuff distasteful is irrelevant.
If it all boiled down to what God Wants, then why did Sinead O'Connor feel differently as a Christian? The reason women cannot be ordained as priests, is because it is what God Wants. Rather, He lets them serve Him by becoming His Brides (i.e.: Nuns, Religious Sisters, Chaste missionaries, etc). There's no reason that I can see to believe God intended anything. It's all in people's minds...including that women can't be priests and that they are to become his brides...ewww, I just threw up in my mouth...women wanting to become the bride of Christ...that doesn't gross you out?
As far as Sinead, you'd have to ask her what she was thinking. Maybe she just went off the deep end.
My only point is that IF Islam is the right religion and if Allah is the one true God, then she's chosen wisely. Otherwise, if Christianity is true, the she's chosen foolishly. Personally I don't think either is true. |
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Post by goz on Oct 28, 2018 23:09:16 GMT
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Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 23:25:49 GMT
If God Intended for women's faces to be covered, then He Would Have Intended for men's faces to be covered too. If it all boiled down to what God Wants, then why did Sinead O'Connor feel differently as a Christian? The reason women cannot be ordained as priests, is because it is what God Wants. Rather, He lets them serve Him by becoming His Brides (i.e.: Nuns, Religious Sisters, Chaste missionaries, etc). There's no reason that I can see to believe God intended anything. It's all in people's minds...including that women can't be priests and that they are to become his brides...ewww, I just threw up in my mouth...women wanting to become the bride of Christ...that doesn't gross you out?
As far as Sinead, you'd have to ask her what she was thinking. Maybe she just went off the deep end.
My only point is that IF Islam is the right religion and if Allah is the one true God, then she's chosen wisely. Otherwise, if Christianity is true, the she's chosen foolishly. Personally I don't think either is true. Nope. Traditionally, in many religions priests, priestesses, monastics, etc., were considered to be the spouse of which ever god or goddess that they served. Yes, I agree that Sinead O'Connor went off the deep end. Most people think she has. I actually wouldn't care if Sinead O'Connor converted to another religion or not. It's when she has bitched for years about her old one's problems, & she converts to a religion that has the same problems 10 x over, that blows my mind. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 23:27:02 GMT
I actually was referring to what role women have in the Church, when I responded to your post. |
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Post by goz on Oct 28, 2018 23:49:18 GMT
I actually was referring to what role women have in the Church, when I responded to your post. So you intentionally ignored the intentionally bolded part about knowing what God thinks about covered faces? I have many skills, mind reading is not USUALLY amongst them!  |
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Post by clusium on Oct 28, 2018 23:51:44 GMT
I actually was referring to what role women have in the Church, when I responded to your post. So you intentionally ignored the intentionally bolded part about knowing what God thinks about covered faces? I have many skills, mind reading is not USUALLY amongst them! No. I didn't take any notice of it. I responded while exhausted. I do not know what God Thinks of covered faces, but, I do not believe that He Would Prefer a woman's face to be covered, & not a man's. The core argument Muslim men have given for making women cover up from head-to-toe, is to protect her from getting raped. Not whether or not it pleases God. |
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Post by goz on Oct 29, 2018 0:08:16 GMT
So you intentionally ignored the intentionally bolded part about knowing what God thinks about covered faces? I have many skills, mind reading is not USUALLY amongst them! No. I didn't take any notice of it. I responded while exhausted. I do not know what God Thinks of covered faces, but, I do not believe that He Would Prefer a woman's face to be covered, & not a man's.The core argument Muslim men have given for making women cover up from head-to-toe, is to protect her from getting raped. Not whether or not it pleases God. Again Rinse and repeat. How do you know this? Is it as previously stated that is it because you are Catholic? Also IF you are Catholic, how do you know the 'core argument' of the Muslim world that women wearing covered faces, is to stop women getting raped? |
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Post by clusium on Oct 29, 2018 3:27:00 GMT
No. I didn't take any notice of it. I responded while exhausted. I do not know what God Thinks of covered faces, but, I do not believe that He Would Prefer a woman's face to be covered, & not a man's.The core argument Muslim men have given for making women cover up from head-to-toe, is to protect her from getting raped. Not whether or not it pleases God. Again Rinse and repeat. How do you know this? Is it as previously stated that is it because you are Catholic? Also IF you are Catholic, how do you know the 'core argument' of the Muslim world that women wearing covered faces, is to stop women getting raped? As I mentioned " I do not KNOW what God Thinks of Covered faces..." I just do not believe that He Would Like a woman to cover her face, but, have No Problem with a man publicly showing his. As for how I know that the core argument from Muslim men is that it is supposed to protect women from getting raped: From years & years of reading public religion message boards, reading newspaper interviews from Muslim men, etc. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 29, 2018 12:35:28 GMT
Again Rinse and repeat. How do you know this? Is it as previously stated that is it because you are Catholic? Also IF you are Catholic, how do you know the 'core argument' of the Muslim world that women wearing covered faces, is to stop women getting raped?
As for how I know that the core argument from Muslim men is that it is supposed to protect women from getting raped: From years & years of reading public religion message boards, reading newspaper interviews from Muslim men, etc. Why do you even have the belief then, if you DO NOT know? Is your belief tangible and realistic? It is a man made Islamic law\custom to oppress women because of Muslim egos and God\Allah has f<>k all to do with it. |
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Post by clusium on Oct 29, 2018 14:14:21 GMT
As I mentioned "I do not KNOW what God Thinks of Covered faces..." I just do not believe that He Would Like a woman to cover her face, but, have No Problem with a man publicly showing his.
As for how I know that the core argument from Muslim men is that it is supposed to protect women from getting raped: From years & years of reading public religion message boards, reading newspaper interviews from Muslim men, etc. Why do you even have the belief then, if you DO NOT know? Is your belief tangible and realistic? It is a man made Islamic law\custom to oppress women because of Muslim egos and God\Allah has f<>k all to do with it. Because it is arrogant for a mere human being to claim to know the Mind Of God. |
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