Post by stargazer1682 on Oct 29, 2018 3:35:36 GMT
I have to say, I don't remember disliking this episode so much the previous times I've watched it. I think it primarily comes down to the inconsistencies when taken at any degree of face value. We know that Skip was just working for Jasmine, in order to turn Cordelia into her vessel or incubator, or whatever, but there's so much more than that, that never really gets addressed.
First and foremost, I have to say as "what if" episodes go, this is the weakest. It could have been good to see what the world would have been like if Cordelia had become a star, but instead we get maybe 5 minutes of her on set, then immediately she follows one ham-fisted clue to the next. First it's the desire to the go to the Hyperion, then it's to check into the room that she was in, in the normal reality, where she had written the address, which is conveniently still there somehow; then that breadcrumb leads round about to Gunn and Wesley, who lead her to Angel and promptly taking back her visions. There's no nuance, it's one plot convenience after the next during the second half of the episode.
Then there's whole Powers that be thing, which is a generally broader annoyance, but they really dwell on it here in this episode; more so afterwards, arguably as consequence of what happens here. I hate what the series does with the concept of "the powers that be," taking an ambiguous term Doyle applied to the unknown force that was granting him visions and turning it into the literal name of veritable gods or higher beings that everyone outside of Angel and his inner circle uses.
Then there's the main theme of the story itself, which is that the visions are hurting Cordelia and even killing her; all because she isn't part human. This is of course pure bullshit. From the very beginning of the series, the visions were incredibly painful, even to Doyle, but the idea of them causing lasting physical damage kind of seems to conflate the normal visions and the time Wolfram and Hart hijacked them in season 2 and they started causing physical injury. More to the point though, Doyle was half demon and it caused him excruciating pain to have a vision, but even overlooking that, in the very episode where they're making the case that Cordelia can't handle the visions as a pure human, they have Cordelia going through a series of events depicting Angel getting the visions instead (which poses the question of what he and Doyle did to achieve that...) and the visions drove Angel insane - something that they didn't even do to Cordelia. But no, ambiguously becoming "part demon," allows her to have a vision without a second thought or slightest bit of pain....
Then there's Drusilla, who was a human with the "gift" of site; and who was tormented for years by Angelus, driven insane by him before being turned, but by all accounts never experienced any the physical pain. Interesting though that Skip brings forth an example of a human who had visions, and died as a results of them, who kind of talked like Dru.
And how can Cordelia be sure that the vision she had was resolved, when the resolution occurred in some purported alternate reality that's now never happened....?
Now of course we know - assuming you, the reader, have watched the entirety of Angel; or at least through season 4 - that Cordelia falls victim of a plot by Jasmine, with the assistance of Skip; and the most proactive part of that plan arguably starts with this episode and with Cordelia becoming part demon, eventually "ascending" and returning to the mortal plane controlled by Jasmine. The thing I feel gets overlooked and even ignored is the probable nature that all of that entails; particularly given all the inconsistencies that actually line up when looked at from another perspective.
On the old board, the generally accepted conceit was that Jasmine was more or less exactly as she presented herself in description, if not literal physical appearance, but I call bs - Jasmine was evil, she was not a "power that was". She was, maybe, a "god" in the same sense as Glory, but I very much doubt she was ever a benevolent being who legitimately wanted world peace and decided to take a more active role, where other higher beings wanted to remain passive and uninvolved.
The reality of "Birthday" should go without saying; the whole thing was designed solely to lead Cordelia to the decision they wanted her to make, i.e. "I want to keep the visions so desperately, I'll do or agree to anything." I'm on the fence whether Jasmine or her toady Skip were necessarily controlling the visions themselves, but it seems likely they were actively responsible for the pain they inflicted and the degree of physical harm they would cause; and that they were gradually ramping it up to the point where Cordelia would be separated from her body at predesignated point where they could begin phase two. It would be necessary before that to really drive home the "if I keep these visions, I will die" concept; the extreme implications of becoming "part demon" would have to be on par with the consequences of keeping the visions in order for her to be willing to agree to it. And of course what better way of convincing someone to do something you want, than to lead them to think it's their idea? 'Here, I've shown this idealized world, that conveniently lead you to glimpse the old life you knew; and it's so bleak that you want to change it more than anything, but what can we do? It's either this or your life. What's that you say? There must be another option... Well... I suppose... nah, it's a crazy idea, but... we could... make you a demon, I guess....'
Of course the events Skip shows Cordelia is complete fiction; unlike "The Wish," this scenario is constructed for the purpose of steering Cordelia one way, rather than letting causality play out from a single divergent point in past events. It's all too neat and tidy; if Cordelia's integrated with this new reality, she shouldn't want to go to the Hyperion, let alone look for an address that definitely shouldn't be there. And if Angel's gained the visions upon Doyle's death and sometime after that lost all grip on reality, how does Gunn become part of this, when Angel was the one who first met him and got him involved with his efforts, instead of his own crew?
So how does this prove that Jasmine was evil? Because she did all of this for starters, including likely intentionally causing the pain in the visions, in order to take it away once the prime objective was achieved by making Cordelia part demon. And for another, she needed Cordelia to be part demon before using her body; and prior to coming Earth, was a supreme power of a hell dimension that was so hellish humans couldn't even exist there. There whole ascension this was clearly a red herring; and any of her claims of things she was responsible for are likely rubbish. And, oh yeah, she ate people....
First and foremost, I have to say as "what if" episodes go, this is the weakest. It could have been good to see what the world would have been like if Cordelia had become a star, but instead we get maybe 5 minutes of her on set, then immediately she follows one ham-fisted clue to the next. First it's the desire to the go to the Hyperion, then it's to check into the room that she was in, in the normal reality, where she had written the address, which is conveniently still there somehow; then that breadcrumb leads round about to Gunn and Wesley, who lead her to Angel and promptly taking back her visions. There's no nuance, it's one plot convenience after the next during the second half of the episode.
Then there's whole Powers that be thing, which is a generally broader annoyance, but they really dwell on it here in this episode; more so afterwards, arguably as consequence of what happens here. I hate what the series does with the concept of "the powers that be," taking an ambiguous term Doyle applied to the unknown force that was granting him visions and turning it into the literal name of veritable gods or higher beings that everyone outside of Angel and his inner circle uses.
Then there's the main theme of the story itself, which is that the visions are hurting Cordelia and even killing her; all because she isn't part human. This is of course pure bullshit. From the very beginning of the series, the visions were incredibly painful, even to Doyle, but the idea of them causing lasting physical damage kind of seems to conflate the normal visions and the time Wolfram and Hart hijacked them in season 2 and they started causing physical injury. More to the point though, Doyle was half demon and it caused him excruciating pain to have a vision, but even overlooking that, in the very episode where they're making the case that Cordelia can't handle the visions as a pure human, they have Cordelia going through a series of events depicting Angel getting the visions instead (which poses the question of what he and Doyle did to achieve that...) and the visions drove Angel insane - something that they didn't even do to Cordelia. But no, ambiguously becoming "part demon," allows her to have a vision without a second thought or slightest bit of pain....
Then there's Drusilla, who was a human with the "gift" of site; and who was tormented for years by Angelus, driven insane by him before being turned, but by all accounts never experienced any the physical pain. Interesting though that Skip brings forth an example of a human who had visions, and died as a results of them, who kind of talked like Dru.
And how can Cordelia be sure that the vision she had was resolved, when the resolution occurred in some purported alternate reality that's now never happened....?
Now of course we know - assuming you, the reader, have watched the entirety of Angel; or at least through season 4 - that Cordelia falls victim of a plot by Jasmine, with the assistance of Skip; and the most proactive part of that plan arguably starts with this episode and with Cordelia becoming part demon, eventually "ascending" and returning to the mortal plane controlled by Jasmine. The thing I feel gets overlooked and even ignored is the probable nature that all of that entails; particularly given all the inconsistencies that actually line up when looked at from another perspective.
On the old board, the generally accepted conceit was that Jasmine was more or less exactly as she presented herself in description, if not literal physical appearance, but I call bs - Jasmine was evil, she was not a "power that was". She was, maybe, a "god" in the same sense as Glory, but I very much doubt she was ever a benevolent being who legitimately wanted world peace and decided to take a more active role, where other higher beings wanted to remain passive and uninvolved.
The reality of "Birthday" should go without saying; the whole thing was designed solely to lead Cordelia to the decision they wanted her to make, i.e. "I want to keep the visions so desperately, I'll do or agree to anything." I'm on the fence whether Jasmine or her toady Skip were necessarily controlling the visions themselves, but it seems likely they were actively responsible for the pain they inflicted and the degree of physical harm they would cause; and that they were gradually ramping it up to the point where Cordelia would be separated from her body at predesignated point where they could begin phase two. It would be necessary before that to really drive home the "if I keep these visions, I will die" concept; the extreme implications of becoming "part demon" would have to be on par with the consequences of keeping the visions in order for her to be willing to agree to it. And of course what better way of convincing someone to do something you want, than to lead them to think it's their idea? 'Here, I've shown this idealized world, that conveniently lead you to glimpse the old life you knew; and it's so bleak that you want to change it more than anything, but what can we do? It's either this or your life. What's that you say? There must be another option... Well... I suppose... nah, it's a crazy idea, but... we could... make you a demon, I guess....'
Of course the events Skip shows Cordelia is complete fiction; unlike "The Wish," this scenario is constructed for the purpose of steering Cordelia one way, rather than letting causality play out from a single divergent point in past events. It's all too neat and tidy; if Cordelia's integrated with this new reality, she shouldn't want to go to the Hyperion, let alone look for an address that definitely shouldn't be there. And if Angel's gained the visions upon Doyle's death and sometime after that lost all grip on reality, how does Gunn become part of this, when Angel was the one who first met him and got him involved with his efforts, instead of his own crew?
So how does this prove that Jasmine was evil? Because she did all of this for starters, including likely intentionally causing the pain in the visions, in order to take it away once the prime objective was achieved by making Cordelia part demon. And for another, she needed Cordelia to be part demon before using her body; and prior to coming Earth, was a supreme power of a hell dimension that was so hellish humans couldn't even exist there. There whole ascension this was clearly a red herring; and any of her claims of things she was responsible for are likely rubbish. And, oh yeah, she ate people....