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Post by puvo on Nov 4, 2018 4:36:10 GMT
1.2. Then women should not be using the pill. There fore your comment on other forms of contraceptive is null and void and rather foolish, not to mention sexist and men should NEVER have sex EVER without using a condom unless they are planning a pregnancy with their partner. 1) *sigh* 2) No, consider why weed was illegal and alcohol wasn't. The same applies here. It is unethical to manipulate hormones to reduce fertility, however, the Pillis out there and there is no way anyone would allow it to be withdrawn. Why?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 7:34:44 GMT
Ah... the old 'I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about so SQUIRREL!" I find your posts interesting... it's like Arlon with a limited vocabulary. ITs not my fault you didn't read the thread. ... and a touch of Jenny. Thanks for playing
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Post by Morgana on Nov 4, 2018 8:21:11 GMT
This is not only factually incorrect, but it effectively disempowers women by treating them like helpless children. Unless he physically forces her, she has the power to refuse. If she declines to refuse unprotected sex, then she must carry her part of the responsibility. If anything, her responsibility is even greater, as it is her body, and the guy might skip town if she gets pregnant for all she knows. He can escape her pregnancy by being a cad, but she cannot. She will then be stuck with a new choice: abortion, adoption or raising the child. She needs to take this into consideration every time she consents to unprotected sex. Yes, the man has a responsibility, no one is denying that. But it takes two to tango. No. Even if the woman consents, she does NOT have the power to become pregnant if he is wearing a condom. A condom fits on HIS penis therefore it is in his power and it is HIS responsibility to prevent a pregnancy. She does not have a penis Without HIS penile actions she CANNOT become pregnant. It is ALL on him. I agree with Karl. Both share equal responsibility. That a woman cannot get pregnant without a man's sperm is indisputable, but she has control over her body, presumably, and can say no. By saying it is his responsibility alone, you are taking away a woman's freedom of her own body. Perhaps she should learn abstinence if she doesn't want the dilemma of having kids and doesn't want to use contraception.
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Post by islandmur on Nov 4, 2018 12:08:24 GMT
No. Even if the woman consents, she does NOT have the power to become pregnant if he is wearing a condom. A condom fits on HIS penis therefore it is in his power and it is HIS responsibility to prevent a pregnancy. She does not have a penis Without HIS penile actions she CANNOT become pregnant. It is ALL on him. I agree with Karl. Both share equal responsibility. That a woman cannot get pregnant without a man's sperm is indisputable, but she has control over her body, presumably, and can say no. By saying it is his responsibility alone, you are taking away a woman's freedom of her own body. Perhaps she should learn abstinence if she doesn't want the dilemma of having kids and doesn't want to use contraception. goz, I'm sorry dear but that's ridiculous. 1- there are other modes of contraception including a female condom. HE cannot GET her pregnant if she doesn't let HIM in her VAGINA (teasing with the caps thing lol) but statement remains. I refuse to divert control of MY body to a man, I'm the one who decides who I have sex with and if yes or no contraception is an issue. Me not a man.
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Post by goz on Nov 4, 2018 19:57:10 GMT
No. Even if the woman consents, she does NOT have the power to become pregnant if he is wearing a condom. A condom fits on HIS penis therefore it is in his power and it is HIS responsibility to prevent a pregnancy. She does not have a penis Without HIS penile actions she CANNOT become pregnant. It is ALL on him. I agree with Karl. Both share equal responsibility. That a woman cannot get pregnant without a man's sperm is indisputable, but she has control over her body, presumably, and can say no. By saying it is his responsibility alone, you are taking away a woman's freedom of her own body. Perhaps she should learn abstinence if she doesn't want the dilemma of having kids and doesn't want to use contraception.Agreed only Yet there is NO need for BOTH. One is sufficient and it should be the man who is the initiating one with the whole erection and penetration thing. Since HE has the active sperm, perhaps he should either wear a condom or say no.
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 4, 2018 22:05:27 GMT
1) *sigh* 2) No, consider why weed was illegal and alcohol wasn't. The same applies here. however, the Pillis out there and there is no way anyone would allow it to be withdrawn. 1. Do you deny contradicting yourself, despite the evidence? 2. That is the greatest load of bollocks you have ever written, apart from the nonsense in No 1. and yet as a sexist misogynistic male you expect women to continue to do so, because 'reasons' that are unethical, sexist and a pathetic 'status quo' argument? You have seriously lost the plot! 1) *sigh* See the thing is, Goz, context really is a thing...Lets look at your quote mines. You quoted "you've nobody to blame but yourself. " When what I said was " You let a man have unprotected sex with you and you get pregnant, you've nobody to blame but yourself. " and I said that in response to you flatly denying it was in any way the responsibility of women if they got pregnant. Next you quote me saying this "I know. I'm not blaming women." Which I said in response to this "Men know that unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy yet they still put their penis in a woman's vagina and are sometimes unpleasantly surprised when she gets pregnant. Better not to do it in the first place. " Yes, its not your fault if we have unprotected sex and I get pissed off if you get pregnant. They are not contradictions, they are the same damn point from different perspectives. If you don't want a kid, rubber up. It isn't my responsibility any more or less than it is yours.
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 4, 2018 22:09:57 GMT
1) *sigh* 2) No, consider why weed was illegal and alcohol wasn't. The same applies here. It is unethical to manipulate hormones to reduce fertility, however, the Pillis out there and there is no way anyone would allow it to be withdrawn. Why? Because injecting testosterone can lead the body to stop producing it. Some of the test cases became infertile.
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 4, 2018 22:10:38 GMT
ITs not my fault you didn't read the thread. ... and a touch of Jenny. Thanks for playing Yeah, Eddy, wanna go pull up Karl and Island for making the same points as me? Thought not.
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Post by goz on Nov 4, 2018 22:15:53 GMT
1. Do you deny contradicting yourself, despite the evidence? 2. That is the greatest load of bollocks you have ever written, apart from the nonsense in No 1. and yet as a sexist misogynistic male you expect women to continue to do so, because 'reasons' that are unethical, sexist and a pathetic 'status quo' argument? You have seriously lost the plot! 1) *sigh* See the thing is, Goz, context really is a thing...Lets look at your quote mines. You quoted "you've nobody to blame but yourself. " When what I said was " You let a man have unprotected sex with you and you get pregnant, you've nobody to blame but yourself. " and I said that in response to you flatly denying it was in any way the responsibility of women if they got pregnant. Next you quote me saying this "I know. I'm not blaming women." Which I said in response to this "Men know that unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy yet they still put their penis in a woman's vagina and are sometimes unpleasantly surprised when she gets pregnant. Better not to do it in the first place. " Yes, its not your fault if we have unprotected sex and I get pissed off if you get pregnant. They are not contradictions, they are the same damn point from different perspectives. If you don't want a kid, rubber up. It isn't my responsibility any more or less than it is yours. Precisely the man should always rubber up if he doesn't want a kid. Yes, it is the male's responsibility because it is his penis and its contents which is the 'active' or 'activating' ingredient.
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 4, 2018 22:16:57 GMT
gozSo you have no responsibility at all?
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Post by goz on Nov 4, 2018 22:19:57 GMT
goz So you have no responsibility at all? Only one of us needs to. It is biology.
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Post by puvo on Nov 4, 2018 22:25:15 GMT
Because injecting testosterone can lead the body to stop producing it. Some of the test cases became infertile. Yeah, sometimes testing drugs has negative side effects, hence the testing. Basically every drug on the planet causes serious complications in some people. I dont see anything unethical about progesterone based contraceptive pills, which "manipulate hormones to reduce fertility"
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Post by puvo on Nov 4, 2018 22:27:57 GMT
goz So you have no responsibility at all? Only one of us needs to. It is biology. Fine. It should be the woman then, as an IUD is FAR more effective.
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Post by goz on Nov 4, 2018 22:33:48 GMT
Only one of us needs to. It is biology. Fine. It should be the woman then, as an IUD is FAR more effective. Why should it be the woman, when the male is the activating agent? It is his responsibility to stop HIS sperm from making a baby unless one is wanted. Why should a women risk excessive bleeding and possibly future infertility just because the male can't be arsed to simply, inexpensively and with no medical complications, use a condom to prevent his penis and its contents impregnating a woman? The same goes for the contraceptive pill since it has side effects. It is not logical.
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Post by puvo on Nov 4, 2018 22:44:47 GMT
Fine. It should be the woman then, as an IUD is FAR more effective. Why should it be the woman, when the male is the activating agent? It is his responsibility to stop HIS sperm from making a baby unless one is wanted. Why should a women risk excessive bleeding and possibly future infertility just because the male can't be arsed to simply, inexpensively and with no medical complications, use a condom to prevent his penis and its contents impregnating a woman? The same goes for the contraceptive pill since it has side effects. It is not logical. This activating agent BS is ridiculous. You need both an egg an sperm. Cant have a baby without both. I can just as easily say it is her responsibility to keep the sperm from her eggs, or her eggs from implanting. We can start weighing up potential for complications vs effectiveness and still come to the conclusion that it is the females responsibility. The woman has the more effective solutions, therefore it should be the woman's responsibility only. Im not that stupid though. It is the responsibility of both parties to make sure unwanted pregnancies don't happen. Sure, condoms are easier but if she has sex without a condom involved, she is just as responsible. She has a vested interest, and she has control. Therefore she bears some responsibility. This is obvious and isnt actually debatable. Maybe you'll notice at some point that not one single person is agreeing with you, male or female. Anyone with half a brain will take that fact and think maybe they are saying something silly... Now, I know you never change you mind once you make your original point, no matter how stupid it might be, so im moving on.
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Post by goz on Nov 4, 2018 22:56:53 GMT
Why should it be the woman, when the male is the activating agent? It is his responsibility to stop HIS sperm from making a baby unless one is wanted. Why should a women risk excessive bleeding and possibly future infertility just because the male can't be arsed to simply, inexpensively and with no medical complications, use a condom to prevent his penis and its contents impregnating a woman? The same goes for the contraceptive pill since it has side effects. It is not logical. This activating agent BS is ridiculous. You need both an egg an sperm. Cant have a baby without both. I can just as easily say it is her responsibility to keep the sperm from her eggs, or her eggs from implanting. We can start weighing up potential for complications vs effectiveness and still come to the conclusion that it is the females responsibility. The woman has the more effective solutions, therefore it should be the woman's responsibility only. Im not that stupid though. It is the responsibility of both parties to make sure unwanted pregnancies don't happen. Sure, condoms are easier but if she has sex without a condom involved, she is just as responsible. Now, I know you never change you mind once you make your original point, no matter how stupid it might be, so im moving on. Maybe you'll notice at some point that not one single person is agreeing with you, male or female. Anyone with half a brain will take that fact and think maybe they are saying something silly... I don't take any notice of the level of acceptance of my posts. I don't subscribe to argumentum ad populum. I just post. My point is logical and not stupid. I don't think you know biology if you disagree with the concept of the activating agent(sperm) and the facilitator (penis) A woman's eggs lie safe and unadulterated inside her unless the male initiates sex ie has an erection moves the sperm to the site and ejaculates. She is the passive partner. How is it her responsibility what he does? It is HIS penis and HIS sperm. Did you read my example of the woman and her disabled husband?
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Post by puvo on Nov 4, 2018 23:12:07 GMT
This activating agent BS is ridiculous. You need both an egg an sperm. Cant have a baby without both. I can just as easily say it is her responsibility to keep the sperm from her eggs, or her eggs from implanting. We can start weighing up potential for complications vs effectiveness and still come to the conclusion that it is the females responsibility. The woman has the more effective solutions, therefore it should be the woman's responsibility only. Im not that stupid though. It is the responsibility of both parties to make sure unwanted pregnancies don't happen. Sure, condoms are easier but if she has sex without a condom involved, she is just as responsible. Now, I know you never change you mind once you make your original point, no matter how stupid it might be, so im moving on. Maybe you'll notice at some point that not one single person is agreeing with you, male or female. Anyone with half a brain will take that fact and think maybe they are saying something silly... I don't take any notice of the level of acceptance of my posts. I don't subscribe to argumentum ad populum. I just post. My point is logical and not stupid. I don't think you know biology if you disagree with the concept of the activating agent(sperm) and the facilitator (penis) A woman's eggs lie safe and unadulterated inside her unless the male initiates sex ie has an erection moves the sperm to the site and ejaculates. She is the passive partner. How is it her responsibility what he does? It is HIS penis and HIS sperm. Did you read my example of the woman and her disabled husband? Having no one agreeing with you as a call to reconsider your opinion, is perfectly valid, and not fallacious. It is always clear you don't seem to care that nobody thinks you are saying something worthwhile. Your point is stupid. It is her responsibility also because she has to consent to what is happening. You got the "partner" part right at least. That partner is equally responsible for what occurs, and under what specific conditions. This point has been made to you repeatedly though, and not even dented your confidence in your waste of time point. It is her responsibility what he does because they are DOING IT TOGETHER. There is nothing passive about it unless she didn't consent. If you think your point is logical, why can no one else see the logic of it? You just seem to want to make an anti men point for some reason, pinning unwanted pregnancies on them alone. Now, ive seen a few others ending up just having to repeat themselves to you because you dont seem to understand simple things, so im actually moving on this time.
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Post by goz on Nov 5, 2018 0:02:33 GMT
I don't take any notice of the level of acceptance of my posts. I don't subscribe to argumentum ad populum. I just post. My point is logical and not stupid. I don't think you know biology if you disagree with the concept of the activating agent(sperm) and the facilitator (penis) A woman's eggs lie safe and unadulterated inside her unless the male initiates sex ie has an erection moves the sperm to the site and ejaculates. She is the passive partner. How is it her responsibility what he does? It is HIS penis and HIS sperm. Did you read my example of the woman and her disabled husband? Having no one agreeing with you as a call to reconsider your opinion, is perfectly valid, and not fallacious. It is always clear you don't seem to care that nobody thinks you are saying something worthwhile. Your point is stupid. It is her responsibility also because she has to consent to what is happening. You got the "partner" part right at least. That partner is equally responsible for what occurs, and under what specific conditions. This point has been made to you repeatedly though, and not even dented your confidence in your waste of time point. It is her responsibility what he does because they are DOING IT TOGETHER. There is nothing passive about it unless she didn't consent. If you think your point is logical, why can no one else see the logic of it? You just seem to want to make an anti men point for some reason, pinning unwanted pregnancies on them alone. Now, ive seen a few others ending up just having to repeat themselves to you because you dont seem to understand simple things, so im actually moving on this time. As the article stated, plenty of people who saw the original tweets agreed. This boards tends to be anti-intellectual, uber conservative and inhabited by anti-feminist bigoted men. Pearls before swine. BTW it is a different thing entirely for the women to 'protect her interests' and she has that choice, however it does not surpass the original point which is that contraception should be the responsibility of the man due to his role in procreation. ( combined with the fact using a condom is simple cheap and reasonably effective and most importantly non-invasive. As in most things in life it is a classic case of cost/risk benefit)
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Post by islandmur on Nov 5, 2018 3:22:51 GMT
This activating agent BS is ridiculous. You need both an egg an sperm. Cant have a baby without both. I can just as easily say it is her responsibility to keep the sperm from her eggs, or her eggs from implanting. We can start weighing up potential for complications vs effectiveness and still come to the conclusion that it is the females responsibility. The woman has the more effective solutions, therefore it should be the woman's responsibility only. Im not that stupid though. It is the responsibility of both parties to make sure unwanted pregnancies don't happen. Sure, condoms are easier but if she has sex without a condom involved, she is just as responsible. Now, I know you never change you mind once you make your original point, no matter how stupid it might be, so im moving on. Maybe you'll notice at some point that not one single person is agreeing with you, male or female. Anyone with half a brain will take that fact and think maybe they are saying something silly... I don't take any notice of the level of acceptance of my posts. I don't subscribe to argumentum ad populum. I just post. My point is logical and not stupid. I don't think you know biology if you disagree with the concept of the activating agent(sperm) and the facilitator (penis) A woman's eggs lie safe and unadulterated inside her unless the male initiates sex ie has an erection moves the sperm to the site and ejaculates. She is the passive partner. How is it her responsibility what he does? It is HIS penis and HIS sperm. Did you read my example of the woman and her disabled husband? Are you kidding me Goz? Your eggs lie safe? Your eggs are only in danger when you are ovulating! and the only one who knows when that happens it's your responsibility to NOT have sex when you are ovulating if you don't want to get pregnant. They even sell kits now to check if you are ovulating.
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Post by goz on Nov 5, 2018 7:11:20 GMT
I don't take any notice of the level of acceptance of my posts. I don't subscribe to argumentum ad populum. I just post. My point is logical and not stupid. I don't think you know biology if you disagree with the concept of the activating agent(sperm) and the facilitator (penis) A woman's eggs lie safe and unadulterated inside her unless the male initiates sex ie has an erection moves the sperm to the site and ejaculates. She is the passive partner. How is it her responsibility what he does? It is HIS penis and HIS sperm. Did you read my example of the woman and her disabled husband? Are you kidding me Goz? Your eggs lie safe? Your eggs are only in danger when you are ovulating! and the only one who knows when that happens it's your responsibility to NOT have sex when you are ovulating if you don't want to get pregnant. They even sell kits now to check if you are ovulating. Are you Catholic? Rhythm method anyone? Do you take your ovulating kit out on your dates?
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