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Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 12, 2018 6:31:47 GMT
MCU always devalues female characters! Shuri is a Mary Sue! (i.e., a “flawless” character) ![](https://m0.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/15125046/stupid.gif) DC-Fan just got owned!
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 12, 2018 6:38:26 GMT
MCU always devalues female characters! Shuri is a Mary Sue! (i.e., a “flawless” character) ![](https://m0.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/15125046/stupid.gif) DC-Fan just got owned! How does Ding Dong Shady posting a self portrait own someone else? ![](https://s26.postimg.cc/5hoy7902h/confused.gif)
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 12, 2018 7:02:43 GMT
I just answered the question. Wakanda doesn't have the best scientific equipment or stat-of-the-art laboratories for studying and testing the vibranium because Wakanda doesn't have the money required to acquire or build those things. It's similar to asking why aren't there any African countries on the list pf participating countries for the International Space Station? Because having a space program and astronauts requires a lot of money, which they don't have. Likewise, having the best scientific equipment and state-of-the-art laboratories requires a lot of money, which Wakanda doesn't have. Wakanda's problem is vibranuim with no little explanation.thank goodness this is a black film that no one could dare criticise, if not a person like james cameron would have torn the movies to shreds since black panther is a worse science fiction film than GOTG,
Yes, vibranium is treated as a deus ex machina and we can definitely discuss that further if you want. That still doesn't make Shuri a mary sue and the only thing this thread has proven is that DC-Fan (and a few others here) have no idea what a mary sue is.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 12, 2018 11:37:13 GMT
What degree subjects did both Xavier have along with Hank McCoy for them to even attempt to build let alone achieve making Cerebro, or the Blackbird or bio chemical compounds to not only remove mutants of their mutations (despite First Class specifically claiming that no one even knew about mutants in the first place for any such research to even exist or be a basis for making a cure) but also cure cripples and allow them to walk... Hank was a child graduate of Harvad at 15. Someone like that would be Einstein level of genius. Its not stated but i can guess he would have had a degree in biophysics and engineering based on his descriptions of Cerebro being able to amplify brainwaves over great distances. Next? Charles is a Professor in Evolutionary Biology and combined with biophysics background of Hank, would not be a stretch to see them build cerebro. You realise people can hold 2 pHDs of different disclipes at the same time right? RIGHT?
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Post by damngumby on Nov 12, 2018 12:54:34 GMT
Where did they publish papers then??? What degree subjects did both Xavier have along with Hank McCoy for them to even attempt to build let alone achieve making Cerebro, or the Blackbird or bio chemical compounds to not only remove mutants of their mutations (despite First Class specifically claiming that no one even knew about mutants in the first place for any such research to even exist or be a basis for making a cure) but also cure cripples and allow them to walk...
It's like Prof. X who also seems to teach poetry/literature which gave him the background to build a mind reading device of Cerebro along with Hank who in addition to being a mechanical engineer an aeronautical engineer (build a super aircraft, Blackbird) AND also a geneticist and a biochemist who can cure cripples and remove mutant powers (like telepathy for Prof. X) are Gary Stu's, right??? Funny how you FOX-Men fans don't have a problem with that at all....
At the end of the day, X-men is completely ridiculous ... what with the wide variety of whacky “mutants” with fantastical powers. And to think that anyone would be satisfied with the “mutation hypothesis” as a scientific explaination for all this. I mean, it’s fine as an aid to help one suspend their disbelief so they can enjoy the movie, but to tout it as an actual scientific foundation for the X-men characters ... well ... just goes to show how gullible some X-men fans are.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 12, 2018 19:02:57 GMT
And no, having possession of a ring or a tattoo isn't scientific proof since anyone could've taken the ring or gotten a tattoo. Having just the ring or just the tattoo wouldn't be enough. They'd need the ring, the tattoo, the ability and the knowledge combined. And it's very possible that someone could have the ring, the tattoo, the ability (if they served with Killmonger on Special Forces) and the knowledge (being told all about Wakanda by Killmonger). The only thing that they wouldn't be able to do is alter their DNA. But either way there doesn't need to be scientific proof. This isn't real life and these aren't real people. Its a movie and the plot device they came up with worked for what they were trying to do. It doesn't work. It's a contrived plot, which doesn't work simply because they want the audience to believe that Wakanda is a scientifically advanced country, but no scientifically advanced country would be so stupid to just accept a claim of royal heritage by someone whom no one in the country has seen or even knew about this person before without any scientific proof, such as a DNA test. There is no such character, there was no mention of any friend in the black op Avengers had Nick Fury arguing with some mysterious council about the use of nuclear weapons, which only POTUS has the authority to say Yes or No. But Avengers didn't mention POTUS at all (despite the fact that the most populated city in the US was being invaded by aliens, which is another example of dumb and lazy writing in Avengers). So are we to assume that in MCU, since there was no mention of POTUS while New York was being invaded by aliens in Avengers, that there's no POTUS in MCU and Nick Fury has all the power and authority that POTUS would normally have? It's just dumb and lazy writing to not mention POTUS at all when the most populated city in the country was being invaded by aliens. (They didn't even have to show POTUS. Just show that POTUS exists and is aware of the crisis, like in BvS when they didn't show POTUS but they had POTUS on the phone authorizing Secretary Swanwick to use a nuclear missile against Doomsday.) And likewise, it's just dumb and lazy writing for a supposedly scientifically advanced country to accept a claim of royal heritage by someone whom no one in the country has seen or even knew about this person before without any scientific proof, such as a DNA test.
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Post by scabab on Nov 12, 2018 21:07:59 GMT
And it's very possible that someone could have the ring, the tattoo, the ability (if they served with Killmonger on Special Forces) and the knowledge (being told all about Wakanda by Killmonger). The only thing that they wouldn't be able to do is alter their DNA. It's not possible at all as they never established such a thing. They never established that Killmonger has any friend or that he would have told any other person about Wakanda. This is all merely of your own invention, it plays no part in any of the story for Black Panther because it's just fan fiction. For one thing there is a President in the MCU, Matthew Ellis who appeared in Iron Man 3, so unlike the "friend" he actually does exist within the story. marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Matthew_EllisEven if he hadn't actually appeared in the flesh he would still clearly exist because it's a position that has to be filled. There would also be a Pope and a Prime Minister in existence but a "friend" is just a specific individual who is make believe character.
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Post by kleinreturns on Nov 12, 2018 22:57:45 GMT
What degree subjects did both Xavier have along with Hank McCoy for them to even attempt to build let alone achieve making Cerebro, or the Blackbird or bio chemical compounds to not only remove mutants of their mutations (despite First Class specifically claiming that no one even knew about mutants in the first place for any such research to even exist or be a basis for making a cure) but also cure cripples and allow them to walk... Hank was a child graduate of Harvad at 15. Someone like that would be Einstein level of genius. Its not stated but i can guess he would have had a degree in biophysics and engineering based on his descriptions of Cerebro being able to amplify brainwaves over great distances. Next? Charles is a Professor in Evolutionary Biology and combined with biophysics background of Hank, would not be a stretch to see them build cerebro. You realise people can hold 2 pHDs of different disclipes at the same time right? RIGHT? And yet not once do we see Xavier doing any genetic/biological research HIMSELF in FC, DOFP, Ivan Ooze, or any of the original trilogy. In fact he is teaching PHYSICS in X1 DESPITE NOT HAVING ANY DEGREE TO TEACH PHYSICS, and spends most of the other movies spouting useless lines from POETRY and LITERATURE.... as any real Professor of Genetics/Biology does....LOL @ the fail dummy defense you are giving here.
Hank is such a genius that not only is he a Gary Stu in the fields on mechanical and aeronautical engineering (Blackbird) he even gets to the point of magically creating a machine to amplify telepathy (cerebro) to find other mutants with isn't his power or mutant ability at all. Plus he stupidly triggered his blue animalistic appearance by accident, what a genius indeed and in DOFP he magically created a mutant cure THAT ALSO HEALS CRIPPLED PEOPLE AS A SIDE EFFECT... yeah he's totally not an unbelievable Gary Stu at all, right FOX-Men fans ....LOL!!!
Try again you pathetic FOX-Men fans. Your extremely rubbish defenses for this tripe is as lame as your FOX-Men movies. Thank God the MCU getting the X-Men back in 2019.
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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 12, 2018 23:40:46 GMT
there is a President in the MCU If there's a POTUS in MCU, then why did Nick Fury argue with the council and say he doesn't authorize the use of nuclear missiles? Fury has no power nor authority to make that decision and neither does the council so why didn't they just call POTUS? Aliens are invading New York and killing people and yet Fury and the council are wasting time arguing instead of calling the 1 person who has the power and authority to say YES or NO on the use of nuclear weapons? That's another example of really awful writing in MCU movies. There would also be a Pope and a Prime Minister But no Queen of Great Britain?
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 2, 2019 23:50:14 GMT
Hauntedknight87 said if I was going to revisit a previous topic, then I should bump the thread. So after watching Aquaman yesterday and seeing how Aquaman did an excellent job of making female characters strong and able to hold their own in battle, I'm revisiting the question of why Black Panther makes female characters so weak and subservient to male characters. When Killmonger threw T'Challa over the edge of the waterfall and everyone thought T'Challa was dead and Killmonger was the new King, why did all of the female warriors just submit to Killmonger (whom they had never seen or heard of before and who doesn't give a shit about the people of Wakanda) instead of challenging Killmonger for the throne? The logical thing would be for T'Challa's sister to challenge Killmonger for the throne. But instead of challenging Killmonger for the throne, they run away and try to get another male tribal leader (who couldn't even beat T'Challa in combat) to challenge Killmonger for the throne. Some MCU fans claimed that T'Challa's sister didn't challenge Killmonger for the throne because T'Challa's sister wasn't trained for combat. So Black Panther basically made the women weak in the movie. Because when you're an heir to the throne, you would normally get combat training at a young age because if you become the ruler one day, you may have to lead your army into battle so you have to know how to handle yourself on the battlefield. We saw in Aquaman that Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera were both fully capable of holding their own in battle.
So why wasn't T'Challa's sister trained for combat like Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera were ? Is it because Wakanda doesn't allow women to rule so that's why they didn't bother to train T'Challa's sister for combat? Or was it because the women in Wakanda don't think they can fight against men the way that Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera could ?
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 2, 2019 23:54:39 GMT
Hauntedknight87 said if I was going to revisit a previous topic, then I should bump the thread. So after watching Aquaman yesterday and seeing how Aquaman did an excellent job of making female characters strong and able to hold their own in battle, I'm revisiting the question of why Black Panther makes female characters so weak and subservient to male characters. When Killmonger threw T'Challa over the edge of the waterfall and everyone thought T'Challa was dead and Killmonger was the new King, why did all of the female warriors just submit to Killmonger (whom they had never seen or heard of before and who doesn't give a shit about the people of Wakanda) instead of challenging Killmonger for the throne? The logical thing would be for T'Challa's sister to challenge Killmonger for the throne. But instead of challenging Killmonger for the throne, they run away and try to get another male tribal leader (who couldn't even beat T'Challa in combat) to challenge Killmonger for the throne. Some MCU fans claimed that T'Challa's sister didn't challenge Killmonger for the throne because T'Challa's sister wasn't trained for combat. So Black Panther basically made the women weak in the movie. Because when you're an heir to the throne, you would normally get combat training at a young age because if you become the ruler one day, you may have to lead your army into battle so you have to know how to handle yourself on the battlefield. We saw in Aquaman that Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera were both fully capable of holding their own in battle.
So why wasn't T'Challa's sister trained for combat like Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera were ? Is it because Wakanda doesn't allow women to rule so that's why they didn't bother to train T'Challa's sister for combat? Or was it because the women in Wakanda don't think they can fight against men the way that Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera could ? So basically you believe women should throw themselves to their death. Glad we cleared that up.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 3, 2019 0:01:04 GMT
Hauntedknight87 said if I was going to revisit a previous topic, then I should bump the thread. So after watching Aquaman yesterday and seeing how Aquaman did an excellent job of making female characters strong and able to hold their own in battle, I'm revisiting the question of why Black Panther makes female characters so weak and subservient to male characters. When Killmonger threw T'Challa over the edge of the waterfall and everyone thought T'Challa was dead and Killmonger was the new King, why did all of the female warriors just submit to Killmonger (whom they had never seen or heard of before and who doesn't give a shit about the people of Wakanda) instead of challenging Killmonger for the throne? The logical thing would be for T'Challa's sister to challenge Killmonger for the throne. But instead of challenging Killmonger for the throne, they run away and try to get another male tribal leader (who couldn't even beat T'Challa in combat) to challenge Killmonger for the throne. Some MCU fans claimed that T'Challa's sister didn't challenge Killmonger for the throne because T'Challa's sister wasn't trained for combat. So Black Panther basically made the women weak in the movie. Because when you're an heir to the throne, you would normally get combat training at a young age because if you become the ruler one day, you may have to lead your army into battle so you have to know how to handle yourself on the battlefield. We saw in Aquaman that Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera were both fully capable of holding their own in battle.
So why wasn't T'Challa's sister trained for combat like Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera were ? Is it because Wakanda doesn't allow women to rule so that's why they didn't bother to train T'Challa's sister for combat? Or was it because the women in Wakanda don't think they can fight against men the way that Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera could ? So basically you believe women should throw themselves to their death. Glad we cleared that up. Did Queen Atlanna or Princess Mera throw themselves to their deaths? No, they fought in battle and held their own in battle. Because as royalty, they were trained at a young age to fight so that if they became ruler one day, they could lead their people into battle. So my question is why didn't T'Challa's sister challenge Killmonger for the throne instead of running away like a coward and trying to get a male tribal leader to challenge Killmonger for the throne? Was T'Challa's sister, a potential heir to the throne, not given battle training, because she was a woman and women aren't allowed to rule in Wakanda?
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Post by scabab on Jan 3, 2019 0:14:31 GMT
This was already explained to you so I don't know why you're asking again.
Killmonger defeated T'Challa fair and square. Okoye and the rest of the bodyguards are there to serve the King regardless of who it is, which was explained.
These same bodyguards couldn't challenge Killmonger because they aren't members of the royal family like he is.
And T'Challas sister is a scientist, that it is what her expertise lies in, not fighting.
Its not as complicated as you seem to make it out to be, this was all made very clear in the movie.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 3, 2019 0:38:16 GMT
T'Challas sister is a scientist, that it is what her expertise lies in, not fighting. She's also a child of King T'Chaka so she's a potential heir to the throne. And heirs to the throne are normally given combat training at a young age because if they become ruler one day, they may need to lead their people into battle. That's why Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera could hold their own in battle against men. Because as royalty they would've received combat training at a young age. So my question is why wasn't T'Challa's sister, being a potential heir to the throne, not given combat training when she was younger? The only reason for not giving her combat training is because Wakanda doesn't allow women to rule so T'Challa's sister could never become the sovereign of Wakanda and thus would never have to lead her people into battle.
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 3, 2019 1:09:55 GMT
So basically you believe women should throw themselves to their death. Glad we cleared that up. Did Queen Atlanna or Princess Mera throw themselves to their deaths? No, they fought in battle and held their own in battle. Because as royalty, they were trained at a young age to fight so that if they became ruler one day, they could lead their people into battle. So my question is why didn't T'Challa's sister challenge Killmonger for the throne instead of running away like a coward and trying to get a male tribal leader to challenge Killmonger for the throne? Was T'Challa's sister, a potential heir to the throne, not given battle training, because she was a woman and women aren't allowed to rule in Wakanda? So you're saying a woman can only be considered "valuable" if she knows how (and is willing) to fight in physical combat?
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Post by MooseNugget on Jan 3, 2019 1:26:43 GMT
At the end of the day, X-men is completely ridiculous ... what with the wide variety of whacky “mutants” with fantastical powers. And to think that anyone would be satisfied with the “mutation hypothesis” as a scientific explaination for all this. I mean, it’s fine as an aid to help one suspend their disbelief so they can enjoy the movie, but to tout it as an actual scientific foundation for the X-men characters ... well ... just goes to show how gullible some X-men fans are. I'm not going through the whole conversation but I imagine most people aren't worried how realistic the science is in a superhero comic book story.
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Post by scabab on Jan 3, 2019 1:33:24 GMT
So my question is why wasn't T'Challa's sister, being a potential heir to the throne, not given combat training when she was younger? They never said she wasn't giving any training. Again, she was a scientist, that was her role in the movie, that was what was written for her in that movie. She was not a warrior, certainly not a warrior who can beat a special forces soldier who can beat another warrior. She is also not the same character as those Mera and Atlanta from entirely different movies with backgrounds and rules. So that plays no part into anything. So I don't know why you keep asking. The character wasn't as a warrior so she didn't fight. Its no more complicated than that.
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Post by damngumby on Jan 3, 2019 1:36:14 GMT
This was already explained to you so I don't know why you're asking again. ![](http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/troll-face..png)
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 3, 2019 2:23:52 GMT
So my question is why wasn't T'Challa's sister, being a potential heir to the throne, not given combat training when she was younger? She is also not the same character as those Mera and Atlanta from entirely different movies with backgrounds and rules. So that plays no part into anything. The character wasn't as a warrior so she didn't fight. So basically she wasn't allowed to be the sovereign then. Because part of the job of being a sovereign is knowing how to defend your throne from enemies. And that's not just Queen Atlanna and Princess Mera in the Aquaman movie. In the Clash of the Titans remake, Princess Andromeda wore armor and had a sword and led her troops in battle. In The Phantom Menace, Queen Amidala led her supporters in battle as well. Neither Princess Andromeda in Clash of the Titans nor Queen Amidala in The Phantom Menace were warriors. But as sovereigns or heirs to the throne, they had to defend their throne by leading their people in battle. So it doesn't matter if T'Challa's sister is a scientist and not a warrior. As a potential heir to the throne, she should've been given combat training at a young age so that if she became the ruler one day she would be able to defend the throne by leading her people in battle. The only reason to not give her combat training would be if women weren't allowed to rule in Wakanda so she wouldn't have the responsibility to defend the throne and lead her people in battle.
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Post by scabab on Jan 3, 2019 2:56:25 GMT
She took part in the battle between tribes at the end of the movie using her scientific inventions.
And even if she did receive combat training what difference would it have made if her more experienced, stronger and faster older brother couldn't defeat Killmonger either?
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