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Post by snsurone on Nov 15, 2018 23:58:45 GMT
It's surprising that this show hasn't been mentioned on this board. It had a large following on the old format.
It's still entertaining, although badly dated. Beaver and Wally were not very bright, yet I felt sorry for them having to live with a helicopter mother and a tyrant father. Not to mention their friends, especially the snarky Eddie Haskell!
My main complaint is that even after Beaver became a teenager, the script writers still had him acting like a dopey 6-year old.
What do you think?
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Nov 16, 2018 0:22:59 GMT
It's surprising that this show hasn't been mentioned on this board. It had a large following in the old format.
It's still entertaining, although badly dated. Beaver and Wally were not very bright, yet I felt sorry for them having to live with a helicopter mother and a tyrant father. Not to mention their friends, especially the snarky Eddie Haskell!
My main complaint is that even after Beaver became a teenager, the scriptwriters still had him acting like a dopey 6-year old.
What do you think? It was a fun and enjoyable show. NOT my favorite, NOR close to it.
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Post by marianne48 on Nov 19, 2018 18:26:53 GMT
Ward Cleaver was my favorite TV dad, mainly because he wasn't a tyrant. June wasn't a helicopter parent, either, but she was a strict-but-caring mother. The premise of the show was that most of the other parents were pretty dysfunctional, and that dysfunction was reflected in their kids--creepy Eddie Haskell; that brown-nosing harridan Judy who was in Beaver's class at school; Lumpy Rutherford and most of Beaver's dopey friends who were always getting him into trouble. Ward always worried about treating the boys fairly without becoming too stern; it was implied that his own father was at least borderline abusive, while June apparently spent a lot of her childhood being raised by her aunt, so there may have been issues with her parents, too. As a result, they were both anxious about being better parents for their kids. There was a little dark side to the show that wasn't evident in other family sitcoms of the time, such as Ozzie and Harriet and The Donna Reed Show.
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Post by snsurone on Nov 20, 2018 13:47:22 GMT
I'm sorry, marianne, but I feel that I must disagree. Whenever I see this show in reruns, Ward is constantly lecturing and punishing his sons for even the most minor infractions, and even if they were not guilty or were coerced into mischief by their friends. And June was initially opposed to anything new the boys wanted to try, such as school sports.
I'll give you a couple of examples: Ward bawled Wally out in front of Beaver--and Eddie--for using his (Ward's) razor. The next day, Wally was taunted so badly at school that he quit the football team. It wasn't until Beaver told him what happened that Ward apologized, albeit reluctantly, to Wally. In a later episode, Wally wanted to take a summer job as a lifeguard at a lakeside resort, and Helicopter June begged Ward to dissuade him. And neither of them would let the boys buy their own clothing--a situation that I can relate to personally; I couldn't shop for my own clothes until I finally moved out of the parental home! And everything my mother got me had to be "cute" or "adorable", no matter how I felt about it! But I digress--sorry about that.
We never see most of the parents of the boys' friends, except for Larry's mother and Lumpy's father (who was also Ward's boss). And I do agree that they were clueless and dysfunctional. And Judy Hensler was spoiled rotten; apparently her parents led her to believe that she was Queen of the World!
Bottom line--I really don't think that Ward and June were exemplary parents. IMHO, the very best sitcom parent was Andy Taylor. With Henry Mitchell as a close second; he was much kinder and more tolerant of Dennis than his cartoon counterpart!
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 20, 2018 22:52:08 GMT
One of the funniest shows of all time. June and Ward were good parents but not perfect. The family was not perfect but it also wasn't dysfunctional.
A great and underrated show.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Nov 21, 2018 4:59:02 GMT
Have to wonder … in the OPs opinion.. was Ward Cleaver as TYRANICAL as the "evil" Ricky Ricardo she has so often written about ?
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Post by BATouttaheck on Nov 21, 2018 5:04:51 GMT
One of the funniest shows of all time. June and Ward were good parents but not perfect. The family was not perfect but it also wasn't dysfunctional. Yes ! ^^^ It's on one of the re-run channels and is a fun way to get away from the 2000's and back to a fictional fifties family who never pretended to be in a documentary on American Family Life. It's not fall down laughing funny … but the situations are funny and no one is angry or yelling or being mean just for the hell'o'it. The kids are not cloyingly sweet and that's a plus !
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Post by snsurone on Nov 21, 2018 14:26:42 GMT
Look up Jeri Weil's (she played Judy) website. Although she's 70, she still physically resembles the brat she played on TV, LOL.
She quit acting after leaving LITB, and is now a successful realtor.
It's cool to read about child actors like her and Ken Osmond who made successful lives for themselves after their acting careers dried up. Unlike others, who descended into addiction and early death.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Nov 21, 2018 15:42:59 GMT
Just caught the end of an episode of the beaver … the boys had wanted to go to a carnival and instead had to stay home to visit with a relative. They were apparently rude during the visit.. Mom was upset. They came to her and sincerely apologized. Mom accepted their apology. Dad suggested that they go to the carnival that evening. They went and the family had fun together. All was right in their world.
True to life ? No way ! … but would it not be nice if real people were like that ?
Reading too much personal stuff into a comedy show from the fifties really does diminish the enjoyment of the program (imo). Tyranical dad ? Helicopter mom ? Perhaps in a viewers real life but certainly not in the Cleaver household. Gotta wonder … did anyone's real Mom in the 50's wear pearls and fancy dresses when working around the house ? Going out .. sure .. but in the kitchen when no company was coming or dinner ….
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 21, 2018 15:53:16 GMT
I don't think helicopter mom's would let their kids walk to school alone every day. Also, people need to learn how to make a common sense distinction between discipline and abuse.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Nov 21, 2018 15:59:32 GMT
... people need to learn how to make a common sense distinction between discipline and abuse. asking an awful lot there ^^^^
'nuther observation entirely : Negatively relating to programs because of personal real life experiences or being jealous of a functional 50's family is just self defeating. (imo)
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Post by snsurone on Nov 22, 2018 18:06:24 GMT
I don't think helicopter mom's would let their kids walk to school alone every day. Also, people need to learn how to make a common sense distinction between discipline and abuse. Don't forget--the US was far different in the '50's than it is today, and there was no problem with kids walking to school unaccompanied. In fact, I did the same thing when I was a kid. Beisdes, June expected Wally to protect Beaver when necessary. What Ward and June never took into account was that Beaver was bullied by Wally's friends Eddie and Lumpy. And Wally never took up for his brother, valuing his friendships over his responsibility to his family. One thing that always bothered me about this show was that the boys were never taught the skills needed to solve life's problems. If there was any trouble, they were expected to tell Mommy and Daddy (or teacher), and the "grown-ups" would fix everything. It's a wonder that Mayfield's children didn't all grow up to be sociopaths!
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Post by BATouttaheck on Nov 22, 2018 18:19:51 GMT
"It's a wonder that Mayfield's children didn't all grow up to be sociopaths!"
Perhaps they did and are now the sociopaths featured on shows such as Criminal Minds !
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Post by telegonus on Nov 28, 2018 9:11:29 GMT
Leave It To Beaver was a fun show, and the kids I grew up with liked it better than the more conservative "adult focused" family sitcoms of the same period. Wally and Beave seemed like real brothers.
Overall, the Cleavers struck me as a more lenient and easygoing clan than the Father Knows Best Andersons or Donna Reed's Stone family. Neither of those two shows felt real to me except in special moments. I mean their plots. Both felt more like contemporary attempts at creating a kind of ideal (but not wholly perfect) almost Norman Rockwell-like mid-century America.
The Beave and Wally show steered clear of that. I never got the sense that the show's producers were aiming so high. They went more for gentle realism. Father and Donna struck me as at times near forbiddingly pedantic when they got serious. Mom and dad on Beaver almost never did. They were occasionally stern, far more so Ward than June, and yet it felt more like Discipline Lite rather than something truly painful.
Oh well. More laughs than moral lessons with Wally and Beave, with Beaver being at its best a neat show that kids liked to watch becauseit was a neat show. Television had, I feel, loosened up considerably by the late Fifties. The Cleaver boys seemed to smile a lot more than the kids on other family sitcoms. Not because they were supposed to "look happy" but because their lives were pretty happy ones, so why not smile?
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Post by marianne48 on Nov 29, 2018 2:54:50 GMT
Not only did kids walk to school alone in those days, but even up to the early 1970s, high school kids in my suburban town who missed the bus would sometimes hitchhike to school. There were plenty of preteen latchkey kids, too.
Many, if not most of the stories on Leave it to Beaver came from real-life experiences of the kids of the show's writers. Even some of the kids' conversations were written down and repeated as dialogue in the show. As a result, the kids' conversations sounded a little goofy sometimes, but never like the stilted versions of moral lessons overheard in other sitcoms of the time (and even later ones, like The Brady Bunch).
One of the boys' biggest fears was that Ward would "clobber" them if they got into trouble. Apparently, a lot of their friends were physically punished, but Ward never hit them, and the poor guy was always confused by their fear that he would. Once or twice during the series, Beaver kissed his father, a touching gesture in an era when boys were discouraged from showing such affection towards a male relative. Ward was surprised and moved by the gesture, and once made a move to kiss Wally (but was rebuffed).
One of the highlights of the show, of course, were Eddie's slimy attempts to ingratiate himself with June, who was never fooled and always treated him with thinly veiled disgust. Which was a good thing, because the last thing the show needed was any kind of sexual tension between those two.
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wanton87
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Post by wanton87 on Nov 29, 2018 3:03:37 GMT
Overall, the Cleavers struck me as a more lenient and easygoing clan than the Father Knows Best Andersons or Donna Reed's Stone family. Neither of those two shows felt real to me except in special moments. Coincidentally enough, I recently came across an article regarding these two shows. The Donna Reed cast were like a family in real life. Following the cancellation of the show in 1966, the cast members made it a point to meet up at least once a month, and they remained close until the death of both Carl Betz and Donna Reed (I also believe that Shelly Fabares and Paul Peterson are still close). Paul Peterson took the cancellation of the show rather hard. He also saw the often resulting fate of other child stars, post career, and as a result, founded A Minor Consideration.The Father Knows Best cast? It was said that they merely had a working relationship, and nothing more. No hard feelings, but no closeness in any way, off the set or following the cancellation of the show. Leave it to Beaver is one of my all time favorites. But I don’t know how to explain it, but it appears that upon reaching puberty, that Jerry Mathers lost all ability to act in a natural way, as he did in the earlier episodes. He actually got down right dopey at times. As a result, you’ll notice that the later episodes seemed to concentrate more on Wally, and his various adventures.
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Post by telegonus on Nov 29, 2018 7:48:17 GMT
That's interesting about the Donna Reed cast, Wanton. The players were all good fits for their parts, even regular-player-for-a-few-seasons Bob Crane, who brought a (mild) bit of raciness to his part.
Jerry Mathers didn't age well,--even as a child!--and this struck me at the time, first run, in the later seasons of Beave. He was too an unappealing looking to be the show's star. Despite his being the (as cast) lead player of the series the show wasn't really about him.
Funny if you think about it. When people talk about LITB they usually first mention Ward, then Eddie Haskell, followed by Wally and June (depending on who's doing the reminiscing). It's not like it was The Jerry Mathers Sow, not even close.
Father Knows Best's cast not being close IRL doesn't surprise me. The relationships between the siblings didn't seem strong, although Father Robert Young was clearly the lead player his dominance was more one of attitude than in his being the alpha guy, though I suppose he was. I've read that Young was supportive of Lauren Chapin in her years of woe as a young woman.
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wanton87
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Post by wanton87 on Nov 29, 2018 15:39:38 GMT
Interesting telegonusI actually didn’t know that Bob Crane was in the Donna Reed Show, until very recently, when I happened to catch a few of the later episodes. After Shelly Fabares left, I couldn’t really get into the show anymore, and I didn’t really care that much for the addition of Patti Peterson (Paul’s real life sister). I really liked Bob Crane in Hogan’s Heroes. Sad ending for the poor guy. Good to know about Robert Young. So I suppose that there was some affection there after all. I’ve listened to the Father Knows Best radio program before as well. Apparently, Robert Young was the only member of the radio cast to make the jump to the television series.
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Post by snsurone on Nov 29, 2018 23:11:54 GMT
tele, I love Jim and Margaret Anderson on FKB. They were both intelligent and level-headed parents stuck with three loser kids: drama queen Betty. dumb and cowardly Bud, and the whining brat Kathy. In fact, my feelings about FKB is the reverse of LITB: I feel sorry for the parents, not the kids!
And marianne--I was a latchkey kid, too. In fact, I had to BEG my parents for my own front door key! Y'see, that was the time when girls had to wear skirts or dresses to school, and I wanted to get back home to change into my jeans. I was what was called a "tomboy" in the '50's.
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Post by telegonus on Nov 30, 2018 3:15:29 GMT
Snsurone: I'm not 100% sure I know what a latchkey kid is (was?) but I think I was one, too. Certainly independent, walked to and from school, only got a ride (a ride! ) in wretched weather, with rain and/or thunder, hailstones, mudslides, blizzards, days when even (radio) weathermen warned grownups not to go outdoors, as in Zero Visibility weather conditions. Yet I remember it all with fondness: the snowbanks, the giant puddles on the sidewalk crawling with earthworms; bonfires, the fun kind, in autumn, when it was still legal to burn leaves. Where I grew up didn't much resemble the family TV sitcom towns, with few neighborhoods like you saw on those shows. Our house wasn't old but we were surrounded, especially up the street, on the hill, with Victorian homes, some quite elegant; and others once elegant, sadly neglected near the railroad station, with cobwebs on the front porch and, when could catch a glimpse, inside as well. Some big homes had rather little in the way of property, of yards; and yet there were small ones that looked like they might once have been farmhouses that had a lot of land, mostly overgrown, complete with grape arbors and decaying crab apple trees. Quite frankly, even at the age of nine, I felt lucky to not live in a generic American city or small town. We had Boo Radley houses that looked haunted and Addams family ones whose weird residents looked as strange as the one on the TV show,--and this was years before the show went on the air. No, nothing like The Munsters, which I didn't care for, and whose main house looked exactly like what it was: something put together on a studio back lot. When I feel bad about my life such remembrances make me feel gratitude for so much that was just there: to walk around, bike around, fences to climb over, garages that once were barns with posters for things like Fatima cigarettes, inexplicably, on the back wall.
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