Post by stargazer1682 on Nov 17, 2018 23:49:20 GMT
I know this episode has had its share of analysis, especially on the old board; the climactic fight is a critical turning point for "Empty Places" and the falling out between Buffy and everyone else. It's pretty much the culmination of all the stress and pressure everyone's been under up to this point, personifying every sense of doubt Buffy and the Potentials had about her command ability, confirming the worse.
Having just rewatched the episode, I find myself ambivalent about it and the ensuing fight. For once I was largely agreeing with Giles and Willow in the debate over whether to follow the lure of Caleb's claim that he had something of hers. She seemed a bit brazen, but more importantly desperate - though I'll touch on that latter part in a bit.
When watching that scene was to ask myself how might have approached the matter different, even if the hindsight of knowing what's to come may skew my judgement; and my first thought was that they would have benefited from scouting things out before heading in. Which of course I apparently forgotten they had done, as I watch the subsequent scene of Buffy and Faith doing just that....
I have mixed feelings about the ultimate plan and division of forces. On the one hand, sure, Willow protecting the Potentials left behind has some merit to it, given her strength of magic; yet by that same token, it's exactly the same reason she would have been an essential asset to take with to the vineyard. What might have made more strategic sense would have been to take Willow and leave Faith for protection. Faith may not have offered the same level of defensive power as Willow, but she'd at least be on par with strength of protection Buffy has offered to date without Faith around. And now having active Slayers, it might have made a good idea in the short term to avoid having both in battle simultaneously, regardless of the boost in fighting strength, for the sake of ensuring at least one survived if the other fell in a battle. And at least having Willow along would have allowed for a variety of defense than engaging on mass with fighters who predominantly rely on hand to hand combat. This of course is the writers' dilema after making Willow so powerful; there aren't as many challenges so long as she's around - but that shouldn't mean contriving her out of the major fights in order to make the problems for everyone else worse.
Then there's the level of fight ability and the methods used. On the one hand, the Potentials are what they are; which is to say they're human, which is the same inherent issue with Xander fighting this battle. Whatever training they've had, it doesn't make up for the lack of supernatural strength and stamina; and even those who have had that have fallen when facing less imposing forces than the First evil and its minions - just ask Spike. It's questionable they didn't call Robin into the fight; even though he tried to kill Spike, he and Buffy seemed to be at a palce at the start of the episode where this was not going to be a fundamental issue and if you're going to go into a situation where hand to hand combat is expected with a team comprised at least in part of people who are at best borderline in this ability to hold their own in a fight, it's stupid to not invite anyone in your corner who is a brawler and stands the least chance of surviving the fight. Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not - I'd even go so far as to say probably not, all things being equal, Robin likely would have just gotten spanked with the rest of them; which may have been one reason they held him back, in order to keep him in prime condition for the final battle in lieu of advanced healing abilities.
What stands out even more than usual this time around is the choice of weaponry. I'm not exactly the poster boy for guns, but seriously, if you're fighting monsters and can't bench press a Mini Cooper, you should probably come to any potential demon brouhaha packing heat. Xander looked absolutely ridiculous with his bow and arrow set in the vineyard; he's not the fucking Green Arrow who can fire off a half dozen perfectly placed shots while doing a summersault, before going toe to toe in a masterfully choreographed fight sequence. And that's someone who's been doing this for seven years; the Potentials flailing aroud with swords and axes don't stand nearly as much of a chance than they were carrying some type of fire arm. Sure, with this crew there's probably a f 50/50 chance they'd hit each other as anyone else, but given the outcome otherwise, arguably better to get caught in the crossfire and maybe survive than the near massacre Caleb and his lackeys hit them with. Hell, if Wesley can get off a good shot to take down Skip, it would at least slow down Caleb, if not outright put him down for good.
Side note, I don't know what it is about Nathan Fillion in this role, but I've never cared for it. It's the first thing I ever saw him in, and thankfully first impressions didn't turn me away, because I've enjoyed seeing him in Doctor Horrible and even in Firefly (which....many other people like....) but I don't like him on Buffy. It's not even disliking him for being the bad guy, I just find him annoying. Plus, somehow I've never been able to shake the sense he's supposed to be from Texas or some other place down south on account of this role; and it surprised the hell out of me when I learned he was Canadian...
Lastly, to get back to the debate earlier in the episode and the Buffy's apparent desperation; for all the good arguments Giles and Willow made about it being a trap and the Potentials not being ready, what it really came down to, I felt, was what choice did they really have? Maybe they could have waited to form some kind of foolproof plan, but how could they possibly know how much time was really at their disposal? They had no idea what the First's plans even were, much less the time table to do it in; the fact that Faith had already been attacked and someone like Caleb was coming to Sunnydale, could very well have been an indication that the First was getting ready to pull the trigger on whatever its endgame was.
Just as importantly, what other options did they have? They had nothing that might have helped them up to that point, no leads on anything that could have been an asset. That it was a trap was pretty much a given, but whether Caleb really had something that Buffy might want, a Potential or a weapon or a mystical dagger with the First true name written on it that allows the wielder to control the First, or even if it was a complete and utter bluff, the white hats had absolutely nothing. The possibility of getting anything, even just a win, let alone anything that might add value or power to their fight, would be a net gain. Yes, any sort of losses were a risk, even probably a certainty that some of them would die or get hurt, but the potential's certainly weren't much in the way of an asset still and compared to where they collectively were, which wasn't even square 1, those losses, while regrettable, would still be worth the sacrifice if it meant gaining any ground.
Having just rewatched the episode, I find myself ambivalent about it and the ensuing fight. For once I was largely agreeing with Giles and Willow in the debate over whether to follow the lure of Caleb's claim that he had something of hers. She seemed a bit brazen, but more importantly desperate - though I'll touch on that latter part in a bit.
When watching that scene was to ask myself how might have approached the matter different, even if the hindsight of knowing what's to come may skew my judgement; and my first thought was that they would have benefited from scouting things out before heading in. Which of course I apparently forgotten they had done, as I watch the subsequent scene of Buffy and Faith doing just that....
I have mixed feelings about the ultimate plan and division of forces. On the one hand, sure, Willow protecting the Potentials left behind has some merit to it, given her strength of magic; yet by that same token, it's exactly the same reason she would have been an essential asset to take with to the vineyard. What might have made more strategic sense would have been to take Willow and leave Faith for protection. Faith may not have offered the same level of defensive power as Willow, but she'd at least be on par with strength of protection Buffy has offered to date without Faith around. And now having active Slayers, it might have made a good idea in the short term to avoid having both in battle simultaneously, regardless of the boost in fighting strength, for the sake of ensuring at least one survived if the other fell in a battle. And at least having Willow along would have allowed for a variety of defense than engaging on mass with fighters who predominantly rely on hand to hand combat. This of course is the writers' dilema after making Willow so powerful; there aren't as many challenges so long as she's around - but that shouldn't mean contriving her out of the major fights in order to make the problems for everyone else worse.
Then there's the level of fight ability and the methods used. On the one hand, the Potentials are what they are; which is to say they're human, which is the same inherent issue with Xander fighting this battle. Whatever training they've had, it doesn't make up for the lack of supernatural strength and stamina; and even those who have had that have fallen when facing less imposing forces than the First evil and its minions - just ask Spike. It's questionable they didn't call Robin into the fight; even though he tried to kill Spike, he and Buffy seemed to be at a palce at the start of the episode where this was not going to be a fundamental issue and if you're going to go into a situation where hand to hand combat is expected with a team comprised at least in part of people who are at best borderline in this ability to hold their own in a fight, it's stupid to not invite anyone in your corner who is a brawler and stands the least chance of surviving the fight. Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not - I'd even go so far as to say probably not, all things being equal, Robin likely would have just gotten spanked with the rest of them; which may have been one reason they held him back, in order to keep him in prime condition for the final battle in lieu of advanced healing abilities.
What stands out even more than usual this time around is the choice of weaponry. I'm not exactly the poster boy for guns, but seriously, if you're fighting monsters and can't bench press a Mini Cooper, you should probably come to any potential demon brouhaha packing heat. Xander looked absolutely ridiculous with his bow and arrow set in the vineyard; he's not the fucking Green Arrow who can fire off a half dozen perfectly placed shots while doing a summersault, before going toe to toe in a masterfully choreographed fight sequence. And that's someone who's been doing this for seven years; the Potentials flailing aroud with swords and axes don't stand nearly as much of a chance than they were carrying some type of fire arm. Sure, with this crew there's probably a f 50/50 chance they'd hit each other as anyone else, but given the outcome otherwise, arguably better to get caught in the crossfire and maybe survive than the near massacre Caleb and his lackeys hit them with. Hell, if Wesley can get off a good shot to take down Skip, it would at least slow down Caleb, if not outright put him down for good.
Side note, I don't know what it is about Nathan Fillion in this role, but I've never cared for it. It's the first thing I ever saw him in, and thankfully first impressions didn't turn me away, because I've enjoyed seeing him in Doctor Horrible and even in Firefly (which....many other people like....) but I don't like him on Buffy. It's not even disliking him for being the bad guy, I just find him annoying. Plus, somehow I've never been able to shake the sense he's supposed to be from Texas or some other place down south on account of this role; and it surprised the hell out of me when I learned he was Canadian...
Lastly, to get back to the debate earlier in the episode and the Buffy's apparent desperation; for all the good arguments Giles and Willow made about it being a trap and the Potentials not being ready, what it really came down to, I felt, was what choice did they really have? Maybe they could have waited to form some kind of foolproof plan, but how could they possibly know how much time was really at their disposal? They had no idea what the First's plans even were, much less the time table to do it in; the fact that Faith had already been attacked and someone like Caleb was coming to Sunnydale, could very well have been an indication that the First was getting ready to pull the trigger on whatever its endgame was.
Just as importantly, what other options did they have? They had nothing that might have helped them up to that point, no leads on anything that could have been an asset. That it was a trap was pretty much a given, but whether Caleb really had something that Buffy might want, a Potential or a weapon or a mystical dagger with the First true name written on it that allows the wielder to control the First, or even if it was a complete and utter bluff, the white hats had absolutely nothing. The possibility of getting anything, even just a win, let alone anything that might add value or power to their fight, would be a net gain. Yes, any sort of losses were a risk, even probably a certainty that some of them would die or get hurt, but the potential's certainly weren't much in the way of an asset still and compared to where they collectively were, which wasn't even square 1, those losses, while regrettable, would still be worth the sacrifice if it meant gaining any ground.