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Post by snsurone on Mar 30, 2017 20:11:11 GMT
I guess I'm the only person in the world who is unhappy with the ending of this otherwise superb movie. Maybe part of that lies in the interpretation of the title. Does "the best years of our lives" refer to our heroes in combat, or to the hopes and dreams of their futures? Even though Al, Fred, and Homer did encounter difficulties adjusting to civilian life, I'm inclined th believe the latter interpretation. Oh, I'm glad that Fred dumped that golddigger wife of his and felt confident enough to start a new life with Peggy, and I wouldn't mind at all seeing them kiss, I still don't like that as the very final frame of the movie. I'm sorry, but I still think my suggestion would have been better, as it would have shown the men ready to face their fears and uncertainties.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 30, 2017 20:45:21 GMT
snsurone"I guess I'm the only person in the world who is unhappy with the ending of this otherwise superb movie." Starting to look that way.
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spiderwort
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Post by spiderwort on Mar 30, 2017 20:51:15 GMT
Does "the best years of our lives" refer to our heroes in combat, or to the hopes and dreams of their futures? Actually, though I can't document it, I seem to recall that those words may have been a saying that was directly attributed to WW2, the great and last so-called "good" war. I have a distant recollection of it from childhood and relatives who served in WW2. Wish I could find out for sure.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 30, 2017 21:05:41 GMT
spiderwortI too recall hearing WWII vets who reminisced about the war and expressed the "Best Years of Our Lives" feeling, if not in those very words. They were young. It was an adventure, It was terrible but it was a very intense something that they shared with their comrades. Not being a WWII Vet I don't quite understand it on a personal level. One of the roles of groups like the VFW was to be a place to get together and swap "war stories". If nothing else, talking can sometimes lead to healing.
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spiderwort
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Post by spiderwort on Mar 30, 2017 21:10:04 GMT
spiderwort I too recall hearing WWII vets who reminisced about the war and expressed the "Best Years of Our Lives" feeling, if not in those very words. THANK YOU, BAT!
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 30, 2017 21:25:07 GMT
About that scene in the drugstore and perhaps what they had in mind with it. "The scene where Fred Derry punches a loudmouth and loses his job for it was inspired by an incident that happened to director William Wyler during the war. Wyler punched a doorman at the Statler Hotel for referring to someone with an anti-Semitic slur, and Wyler received an official reprimand for it." Lots more interesting trivia at Best Years Triviaanother tidbit: ""The story grew out of a July 1944 Time magazine story about a group of Marines taking a train back home to New York from San Diego, and growing more quiet and nervous the closer they got. mattgarth Doghouse6 spiderwort
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Post by mattgarth on Mar 30, 2017 21:33:59 GMT
Fred's wife 'Marie' does mention the title when breaking up with him -- "I gave you the best years of my life!"
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Post by Doghouse6 on Mar 30, 2017 21:58:24 GMT
I guess I'm the only person in the world who is unhappy with the ending of this otherwise superb movie. Maybe part of that lies in the interpretation of the title. Expanding upon my previous remarks, the title evokes, to begin with, a phrase that was something of a cliche at the time: picture any number of dissatisfied wives shouting, "I've given you the best years of my life!" (referring not to calendar years in the sense of either "good ones" or "bad ones," but to the finite number allotted to any lifespan and, more specifically, to those encompassing the ages of greatest potential). The implication is that there were other - perhaps better - things upon which those years might have been spent. With the familiarity of that phrase and meaning in mind, the title invokes at the surface the sacrifices made by the three vets and their loved ones, implying that their "best years" were those given in service to country. But it can also be interpreted in the manner that you have and, as I suggested earlier, it can pose a question as much as it does a statement, and be taken to address those very "uncertainties" you mention: just which were really "the best years?" Those they sacrificed to the war? Those before it? Those yet to come? It allows the possibilities of all those interpretations, and may be applied, I think, as the viewer deems appropriate to the different characters' dramatic circumstances. It's perhaps also worth bearing in mind that evaluations of that nature are usually made in retrospect: I daresay most people couldn't specify which they'd call the best years of their lives until after they're past and are looked back upon. But for guidance, I again refer to the title of the story upon which the screenplay was based: "Glory For Me." Producer Sam Goldwyn had commissioned journalist MacKinlay Kantor to fashion a screenplay depicting the readjustment of returning vets, and the novella of that title is what he delivered. It's been described as "raw" and "dark" by many readers, and with its unsparing descriptions of effects of physical injuries, what we now call PTSD and other difficulties, the irony of the title is clear: "glory" is the farthest thing from what the characters Kantor created experience after they finally return stateside. I don't wish to impose my interpretations upon anyone, but I do feel safe in the one that the film's title is not meant to be taken literally as a description of that which it intends to depict within the span of its story (or to suggest in its immediate aftermath), given postwar audiences' understanding of the aforementioned cliche.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 30, 2017 22:20:16 GMT
unsparing descriptions of effects of physical injuries, what we now call PTSD : "Harold Russell's character was originally written as a war veteran suffering from combat trauma. This was changed to a physical disability when Russell joined the cast." That great dad is home scene: "William Wyler, who served as a major in the Army Air Force during World War II, incorporated his own wartime experiences into the film. Just as Fred Derry did in the movie, Wyler flew in B-17s in combat over Germany, although rather than being a bombardier, as Derry was, Wyler shot footage for documentary films (his hearing was permanently damaged when an anti-aircraft shell exploded near his plane while on a bombing raid). Additionally, he modeled the reunion of Al and Milly, in which they first see each other at opposite ends of a long hallway, on his own homecoming to his wife, Margaret Tallichet." Just cuz it's cool: In a scene at Butch's bar, Homer asks Butch if he would play a song for him. "How about 'Lazy River?'" Homer asks. "Remember that?" Hoagy Carmichael, who plays Butch, composed "Lazy River." Doghouse6BTW: While I was working out what I wanted to say re: mattgarth's Marie quote, you said what I wanted to say but much better than I ever could.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 30, 2017 22:35:02 GMT
"Fred's wife 'Marie' does mention the title when breaking up with him -- "I gave you the best years of my life!" " It's possibly as simple as this. It was a great line to use as a title. PLUS, they knew that 71 years later viewers would be puzzeling and puzzeling about what it really means !
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Post by london777 on Mar 31, 2017 0:06:31 GMT
This excellent thread with its many thoughtful contributions has got me thinking about this great film lately. By coincidence the complete series of Band of Brothers fell into my lap on Saturday so I have been watching that for the last three evenings. The last part of BoB did resonate with the same feelings as BYofYL. However these guys got on in later life, whether they excelled or totally f*cked up, they would all have one thing in common. The rest of their lives would be an anti-climax.
The same thing is portrayed in another fine movie I re-watched lately: The Deep Blue Sea (2011) with an outstanding performance by Rachel Weisz. Set in the immediate post-war period in bomb-damaged London, she is a married woman who has a love affair with an ex-RAF fighter pilot. He is mildly obnoxious, but it is obvious that the rest of his life will be a total downer after his war-time experiences, however horrific they may have been, and he realizes this.
For all their cynicism and bitching about the army and the top brass, these guys must have felt they were doing something supremely important. Few of us ever get that chance, and even fewer take it. Nothing else in their lives could ever mean as much. All they can do is to "soldier on" (no pun intended).
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Post by Doghouse6 on Mar 31, 2017 9:16:57 GMT
Fred's wife 'Marie' does mention the title when breaking up with him -- "I gave you the best years of my life!" I'd completely forgotten, matt, that the line had actually been spoken in the film. Marie's utterance of it highlights not only the "cliche" aspect of which I spoke in my reply to snsurone, but in Marie's case, it also takes on the dimension of a perverse mockery of itself: after their brief time married before Fred shipped out, she's clearly spent her "best years" living her own life just as she pleases and, as she walks out to join Cliff, intends to continue doing so with, presumably, a fair number of "best years" ahead of her. The line was one which was revisited many times on The George Burns and Gracie Allen Show when, in the midst of one of their frequent battles, next-door neighbor Blanche Morton would wail or sob it to husband Harry, to be invariably met with some variation of "These were the best ones?" from cranky Fred Clark, or later from erudite Larry Keating, "I can only shudder in apprehension to contemplate what may represent the worst ones."
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Post by london777 on Mar 31, 2017 14:14:55 GMT
I regret to say that I've not seen BAND OF BROTHERS or THE DEEP BLUE SEA.
Worth the effort for Weisz' performance. Normally I despise the use of classical music for soundtracks. Rarely does the genius of the film-maker approach the genius of the composer and music is the queen of arts so it seems like lèse–majesté. Even more so if it is almost incessant. The Deep Blue Sea commits both "crimes" but it moves me to tears. Even more surprising, the ditty in question is American in this most English of movies. (Barber's Violin Concerto).
As a Brit I would not have the impertinence to urge you to watch Band Of Brothers, a tale of genuine American heroism (not the John Wayne sort) in what you called "the last good war" and what I would call "the only good war."
But it was made in England, the leading actor and main hero was a Brit, and there were 59 Brits with speaking parts (some of them important roles) as against 29 Americans.
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Post by snsurone on Mar 31, 2017 14:15:46 GMT
unsparing descriptions of effects of physical injuries, what we now call PTSD : Bat, another cast member involved in the war effort: Myrna Loy took a year off from acting to work for the Red Cross. There were doubtless others that I'm not aware of.Quite a number of Hollywood stars participated in the war effort. Some, like Clark Gable and Tyrone Power were actually in combat. Their services changed them noticeably; this wasn't the insulated world of movies: there were REAL bombs and REAL bullets. And when men fell, they didn't get up when a director yelled, "Cut!" When these stars returned, they looked far older than they did when they enlisted, which I take as a sign of PTSD. As anyone who has ever been in active deployment can attest, war can age a man greatly. I believe this was depicted very well in TBYOOL, especially in the scene where Al looks in the mirror while holding a photo of himself in his younger years. Arguably, the best scene in the movie!
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Post by london777 on Mar 31, 2017 15:10:01 GMT
(This quoting thing is getting annoying! My fifth attempt.) Anyway. Thanks for your comments, London. I didn't intentionally avoid either project; I think I was just working very hard at that time. I wanted to see both. And I agree with your very smart assessment of classical composers and films, though personally Barber makes everything better for me. And lord knows we have a legion of non-American composers in our films.
But most importantly, I wanted to clarify my comments about "the last good war." I was (I thought) quoting something that I know is a common descriptive term in the states about WW2, if not elsewhere, and I probably got it wrong; yours may be right. In any case, I think we're both saying the same thing: that in modern life, at least, it was the only righteous and necessary war.
You will have noticed that I am losing the battle with quotes. Why cannot this site be like every other ProBoards site I have used? Which asshole decided to fiddle with the quote facility? I was not referring to the use of contemporary "classical" composers for original films scores. There is some wonderful music being written, although I have a general complaint that music is used too often, too loudly and too intrusively. Study Ingmar Bergman's impeccable use of music to see how it should be done. It should be a subtle ingredient in the recipe, not tomato sauce poured all over the dish to mask possible imperfections. I was actually referring to established classical favorites being parachuted in to prop up the movies. Although Brief Encounter (1945) gets away with it using Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No.2 and you cannot get more cliched than that. Must only work with films about middle-class married English women having a bit on the side. I was not querying your use of the quotation or saying. Just putting forward my view that it was the only "good war". It appears that you agree.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Apr 2, 2017 0:52:17 GMT
spiderwort RE: The last good warExcerpt from TIME article linked above: Many Americans who lived through what was the most destructive war in history still refer to it as "the last good war." Not that any war is good and not that there weren't terrible sacrifices, but World War II, as TIME dubbed it, was a war that had to be fought and won. This was an unambiguous struggle between good and evil. It was not just about national interests but also about values. Hitler and Tojo had to be defeated; there was no doubt about it. The U.S. was the "home front"; the "war effort" was priority No. 1; and complaints... (your wish is my command.) <<quotes are easier to handle if you click BBC code instead of preview.>>
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Post by BATouttaheck on Apr 2, 2017 1:17:07 GMT
OK I just finished re-watching The Best Years of Our Lives The disputed fight seemed fitting to me: Some big mouthed jerk, obviously not a vet, saying incredibly stupid and wrong things to a guy who was, equally obviously, a vet and a wounded one at that. Words to the effect of "You backed the wrong people". Homer gets mad and wants the jerk to clarify just what he meant. They get into a scuffle and Homer is going to get into big trouble for physically fighting with his metal hooks. Fred literally jumps in and ends it. I dunno, as a scene, it seemed NOT out of place to me. THE ENDing : Fred tells Peggy that it's going to be hard, she knows and that's fine, they embrace. We find the tissues (again). Just right. The vanished son / brother. I thought maybe he was out of town at school BUT he rushed off late for school the last time we saw or heard anything about him so that's probably not it. He was an ingrate who didn't like the souvenirs that his dad had brought him so no big loss anyway. Kidding, people. Question. Fred asks Al how long he has been married. Twenty Years. So that makes Peggy at most about 19 ? BUT she has worked at the hospital for 2 years and seems a heck of a lot older, more mature than 19. In 1946 would a 19 year old "nice girl" woman be that comfy in a bar,, even a somewhat wealthy one ? No biggy at all but wondering.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Apr 2, 2017 1:21:28 GMT
snsurone" the scene where Al looks in the mirror while holding a photo of himself in his younger years. Arguably, the best scene in the movie!" Arguably ? Yes. Best scene in the movie ? No way.
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Post by snsurone on Apr 2, 2017 1:29:45 GMT
snsurone " the scene where Al looks in the mirror while holding a photo of himself in his younger years. Arguably, the best scene in the movie!" Arguably ? Yes. Best scene in the movie ? No way. OK, Bat. What do you think is the best scene in the movie? Not an easy question, since there are so many great scenes.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Apr 2, 2017 1:43:22 GMT
snsurone "What do you think is the best scene in the movie?"
I think it's ridiculous to even try to the pick a "best scene" in any film, especially in a masterpiece like this one. But: If a brief, almost throw away, scene of a man looking at a picture of his younger self is your "best scene", well then, ok. As far as "things have changed" scenes, I think the scene of Homer looking at his sports photos where he is throwing a football "said" a lot more than the scene with Al. Those were real pictures of Harold Russell, btw.
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