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Post by Skaathar on Nov 29, 2018 19:26:32 GMT
Avengers Airport fight (Civil War)
vs.
First Class Beach fight (X-Men: First Class)
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 29, 2018 20:14:45 GMT
In context in its own film, the Airport fight never should've happened. Still, in terms of sheer entertainment, I have to go Civil War.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 29, 2018 20:18:44 GMT
Civil War Airport fight all the way. Not even close. The Airport fight is one of the best superhero action scenes ever made.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Nov 29, 2018 20:39:16 GMT
Pssh, Civil War by a mile!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 6:29:09 GMT
Civil War because Civil War.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Nov 30, 2018 7:26:35 GMT
In context in its own film, the Airport fight never should've happened. Still, in terms of sheer entertainment, I have to go Civil War. Why do you say that?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 30, 2018 12:50:00 GMT
In context in its own film, the Airport fight never should've happened. Still, in terms of sheer entertainment, I have to go Civil War. Why do you say that? There was no reason for a brawl and even less reason for Ant-Man or Spider-Man to be involved.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 30, 2018 14:46:55 GMT
There was no reason for a brawl and even less reason for Ant-Man or Spider-Man to be involved. I don't see how that brawl could have been avoided. Cap wanted to go somewhere, IM had a deadline to bring him back.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 30, 2018 15:08:45 GMT
There was no reason for a brawl and even less reason for Ant-Man or Spider-Man to be involved. I don't see how that brawl could have been avoided. Cap wanted to go somewhere, IM had a deadline to bring him back. And there were a million ways to get there. He and his team are able to avoid authorities and travel the world (to the extent of putting that team together in the first place!), yet they choose to walk into a fight for no reason whatsoever. Hawkeye walked in and out of Avengers Compound but they couldn't find a way to get to Siberia? Civil War is a fun flick but the writing doesn't always hold up.
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Post by charzhino on Nov 30, 2018 15:09:51 GMT
The one with stakes
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 30, 2018 15:17:27 GMT
Let's keep Blade out of this thread. He'll have his chance.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 30, 2018 15:30:53 GMT
I don't see how that brawl could have been avoided. Cap wanted to go somewhere, IM had a deadline to bring him back. And there were a million ways to get there. He and his team are able to avoid authorities and travel the world (to the extent of putting that team together in the first place!), yet they choose to walk into a fight for no reason whatsoever. Hawkeye walked in and out of Avengers Compound but they couldn't find a way to get to Siberia? Civil War is a fun flick but the writing doesn't always hold up. They had a way to get to Siberia, it was a chopper parked in the airport. While I don't doubt they could have found another way to Siberia, I doubt they could have done so in a timely manner and they were in a rush. As for Hawkeye, his hideaway didnt' seem too farr from NY,it's at least the same country.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 30, 2018 17:26:22 GMT
And there were a million ways to get there. He and his team are able to avoid authorities and travel the world (to the extent of putting that team together in the first place!), yet they choose to walk into a fight for no reason whatsoever. Hawkeye walked in and out of Avengers Compound but they couldn't find a way to get to Siberia? Civil War is a fun flick but the writing doesn't always hold up. They had a way to get to Siberia, it was a chopper parked in the airport. While I don't doubt they could have found another way to Siberia, I doubt they could have done so in a timely manner and they were in a rush. As for Hawkeye, his hideaway didnt' seem too farr from NY,it's at least the same country. Hawkeye and Wanda got from the US to Germany-- how? They didn't take British Airways, did they? These people work in espionage and the only way to get to Siberia was a helicopter at this random airport? Then they hear the alarm sounding as the airport is evacuated and they march into a fight anyway. Hell, two of them could've provided a distraction while Cap & Buck made their way out; instead they stage this Mexican standoff because it looks better cinematically. There's no defending bad writing. You can overlook it and concentrate on the fun of that scene (which is what I do), but you can't defend it without sounding desperate.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 30, 2018 17:50:03 GMT
They had a way to get to Siberia, it was a chopper parked in the airport. While I don't doubt they could have found another way to Siberia, I doubt they could have done so in a timely manner and they were in a rush. As for Hawkeye, his hideaway didnt' seem too farr from NY,it's at least the same country. Hawkeye and Wanda got from the US to Germany-- how? They didn't take British Airways, did they? These people work in espionage and the only way to get to Siberia was a helicopter at this random airport? Then they hear the alarm sounding as the airport is evacuated and they march into a fight anyway. Hell, two of them could've provided a distraction while Cap & Buck made their way out; instead they stage this Mexican standoff because it looks better cinematically. There's no defending bad writing. You can overlook it and concentrate on the fun of that scene (which is what I do), but you can't defend it without sounding desperate. Hawkeye and Wanda are not wanted criminals. Bucky is. Ross specifically gave orders to hunt down Cap and Bucky. Stark was not specifically tracking down Hawkeye and Wanda, but he's specifically hunting down Cap and Bucky with his entire team. Big big difference there. In fact, Cap's plan with the helicopter would have worked... IF Stark hadn't been on their tail. As for staging a distraction, are you forgetting who they're up against? A distraction won't last long against guys like Ironman, Black Widow, Vision and team. IM and team already knew which helicopter Cap's team was going to use. The airport was evacuated and Cap and team hadn't yet found the Avenger's jet. IM and Warmachine have scanners to help them find humans within the facility.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Nov 30, 2018 17:59:40 GMT
Guys if you over-analyze anything in a comic book superhero movie it quickly falls apart. It's just the nature of the genre. It's fantasy/action/adventure.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 30, 2018 18:04:50 GMT
Hawkeye and Wanda got from the US to Germany-- how? They didn't take British Airways, did they? These people work in espionage and the only way to get to Siberia was a helicopter at this random airport? Then they hear the alarm sounding as the airport is evacuated and they march into a fight anyway. Hell, two of them could've provided a distraction while Cap & Buck made their way out; instead they stage this Mexican standoff because it looks better cinematically. There's no defending bad writing. You can overlook it and concentrate on the fun of that scene (which is what I do), but you can't defend it without sounding desperate. Hawkeye and Wanda are not wanted criminals. Bucky is. Cap was under lockdown. Tony Stark was not specifically tracking down Hawkeye and Wanda, but he's specifically tracking down Cap and Bucky. Big big difference there dude. As for staging a distraction, are you forgetting who they're up against? A distraction won't last long against guys like Ironman, Black Widow, Vision and team. IM and team already knew which helicopter Cap's team was going to use. The airport was evacuated and Cap and team hadn't yet found the Avenger's jet. IM and Warmachine have scanners to help them find humans within the facility. Hawkeye and Wanda are both Avengers who didn't sign the Sokovia accords. You better believe they're on a watchlist. If they aren't, the writing is even worse. I'm pretty sure IM and WM would come running when Wanda started throwing cars around and Giant-Man is roaming around the runway. But that's just fan fiction. The point is there are a hundred ways to stage a distraction and go for another aircraft. Stop defending the film at all costs. I'm not DC Fan. I like Civil War despite its flaws, you're not proving anything by pretending the movie makes perfect sense.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 30, 2018 18:10:46 GMT
Guys if you over-analyze anything in a comic book superhero movie it quickly falls apart. It's just the nature of the genre. It's fantasy/action/adventure. Which is why I can enjoy the film despite its flaws. There's a difference between acknowledging issues in the script and tearing the movie down. The board defenders on this site can be as obnoxious as the trolls. "Dude, it makes perfect sense that two people considered to be potential terrorists could just board an international flight while their close friends are staging essentially terrorist acts overseas." "There's no way super spies could procure transportation any other way (even though they've been country hopping the entire film and continue to do so in subsequent films), they had to get that one aircraft surrounded by the other heroes." The movie isn't perfect, but it's still enjoyable as hell.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 30, 2018 18:32:09 GMT
Hawkeye and Wanda are not wanted criminals. Bucky is. Cap was under lockdown. Tony Stark was not specifically tracking down Hawkeye and Wanda, but he's specifically tracking down Cap and Bucky. Big big difference there dude. As for staging a distraction, are you forgetting who they're up against? A distraction won't last long against guys like Ironman, Black Widow, Vision and team. IM and team already knew which helicopter Cap's team was going to use. The airport was evacuated and Cap and team hadn't yet found the Avenger's jet. IM and Warmachine have scanners to help them find humans within the facility. Hawkeye and Wanda are both Avengers who didn't sign the Sokovia accords. You better believe they're on a watchlist. If they aren't, the writing is even worse. I'm pretty sure IM and WM would come running when Wanda started throwing cars around and Giant-Man is roaming around the runway. But that's just fan fiction. The point is there are a hundred ways to stage a distraction and go for another aircraft. Stop defending the film at all costs. I'm not DC Fan. I like Civil War despite its flaws, you're not proving anything by pretending the movie makes perfect sense. Just because they didn't sign the Accords doesn't mean they're barred from travel. Not signing the Accords means you can't do superhero stuff anymore, it doesn't make you a criminal. Riding on a plane and going somewhere is not against the Accords. I'm not defending the film at all costs, don't mistake me for a blind MCU fanatic. I have many criticisms about Civil War, this is not one of them. I'm defending a specific scene in the movie that made perfect sense, I'm not claiming the entire movie made perfect sense. You say there are a hundred ways to go about this, yet none of your suggestions would actually work. First, they didn't know Ant-man could go giant-mode, and from the looks of things it seems Scott only did that out of desperation. So that immediately foils your plan. Wanda throwing around cars would distract one, maybe 2 of IM's team. There are others around to continue the chase. Plus, Wanda wantonly throwing cars around and destroying property right at the beginning without provocation is out of character. Besides, it's not like Cap came out swinging. Remember he did try to talk to Stark and explain his side first... which double worked as a distraction for his team to find the jet. Point being, a fight was unavoidable.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 30, 2018 18:57:31 GMT
Hawkeye and Wanda are both Avengers who didn't sign the Sokovia accords. You better believe they're on a watchlist. If they aren't, the writing is even worse. I'm pretty sure IM and WM would come running when Wanda started throwing cars around and Giant-Man is roaming around the runway. But that's just fan fiction. The point is there are a hundred ways to stage a distraction and go for another aircraft. Stop defending the film at all costs. I'm not DC Fan. I like Civil War despite its flaws, you're not proving anything by pretending the movie makes perfect sense. Just because they didn't sign the Accords doesn't mean they're barred from travel. Not signing the Accords means you can't do superhero stuff anymore, it doesn't make you a criminal. Riding on a plane and going somewhere is not against the Accords. I'm not defending the film at all costs, don't mistake me for a blind MCU fanatic. I have many criticisms about Civil War, this is not one of them. I'm defending a specific scene in the movie that made perfect sense, I'm not claiming the entire movie made perfect sense. You say there are a hundred ways to go about this, yet none of your suggestions would actually work. First, they didn't know Ant-man could go giant-mode, and from the looks of things it seems Scott only did that out of desperation. So that immediately foils your plan. Wanda throwing around cars would distract one, maybe 2 of IM's team. There are others around to continue the chase. Plus it wasn't till in the middle of the fight that they found the jet. Besides, Wanda wantonly throwing cars around and destroying property right at the beginning without provocation is out of character. Point being, a fight was unavoidable. No, it isn't. But when you're already under surveillance and your friends are causing international incidents in defiance of the law, there's no way you fly. No way. Arguing my stupid distraction suggestions point by point makes you sound ridiculous. You spent a paragraph telling me why that wouldn't work (and it absolutely would-- and wantonly destroying property is out of character as opposed to actually throwing the cars at her teammates?!) yet you can't explain how they were traveling the globe throughout the rest of the film. Wanda's mistake at the beginning of the film was the impetus for the Sokovia accords and you think they'll let her board a plane while Cap is blowing up cars and beating up cops in Europe? Tony wasn't immediately made aware of Wanda's forcible escape from the compound and he didn't put her on a no fly list? The fight was 100% unnecessary for a multitude of reasons, but it still gets my vote for overall entertainment value. You'll have to accept the fact that not all Marvel fans think every MCU film is infallible.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 30, 2018 19:13:12 GMT
Just because they didn't sign the Accords doesn't mean they're barred from travel. Not signing the Accords means you can't do superhero stuff anymore, it doesn't make you a criminal. Riding on a plane and going somewhere is not against the Accords. I'm not defending the film at all costs, don't mistake me for a blind MCU fanatic. I have many criticisms about Civil War, this is not one of them. I'm defending a specific scene in the movie that made perfect sense, I'm not claiming the entire movie made perfect sense. You say there are a hundred ways to go about this, yet none of your suggestions would actually work. First, they didn't know Ant-man could go giant-mode, and from the looks of things it seems Scott only did that out of desperation. So that immediately foils your plan. Wanda throwing around cars would distract one, maybe 2 of IM's team. There are others around to continue the chase. Plus it wasn't till in the middle of the fight that they found the jet. Besides, Wanda wantonly throwing cars around and destroying property right at the beginning without provocation is out of character. Point being, a fight was unavoidable. No, it isn't. But when you're already under surveillance and your friends are causing international incidents in defiance of the law, there's no way you fly. No way. Arguing my stupid distraction suggestions point by point makes you sound ridiculous. You spent a paragraph telling me why that wouldn't work (and it absolutely would-- and wantonly destroying property is out of character as opposed to actually throwing the cars at her teammates?!) yet you can't explain how they were traveling the globe throughout the rest of the film. Wanda's mistake at the beginning of the film was the impetus for the Sokovia accords and you think they'll let her board a plane while Cap is blowing up cars and beating up cops in Europe? Tony wasn't immediately made aware of Wanda's forcible escape from the compound and he didn't put her on a no fly list? The fight was 100% unnecessary for a multitude of reasons, but it still gets my vote for overall entertainment value. You'll have to accept the fact that not all Marvel fans think every MCU film is infallible. Err no, you don't get to be put on house arrest just because a former associate of yours is under investigation. Remember, Wanda has no relation with Bucky, and Bucky is the criminal, not Cap. I already told you how they were able to travel, you just don't want to accept it. Not signing the accords doesn't stop you from traveling. Sure they would have been watched, still won't stop them from traveling. But let's say that it did, let's say that Wanda was indeed on a no-fly list and that Hawkeye used his spy network to get them to travel quietly. The big thing you're missing here is this: 1. Hawkeye had time to plan and wasn't on an extremely rigid deadline. 2. Stark wasn't actively hunting down Wanda and Hawkeye. These are two things that Cap's team didn't have the privilege of. I mean, let's pretend you were Cap. You've already used your spy network to secure you a chopper parked in the airport. You get there and find out that Stark is there and has already started evacuating the airport. What are you going to do? Go ahead, tell me what other hundred ways they're going to stop the other Winter Soldiers from waking up. Remember you're running against the clock, you don't have time to take another day for planning. P.S. - throwing cars at your former teammates while you're in the middle of a fight is completely different from just throwing around cars out of nowhere without being provoked. Yes, it would have been out of character.
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