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Post by Isapop on Dec 9, 2018 18:40:41 GMT
VegasNow, just imagine if I had to get a life saving message to you. If you don't correctly understand it, you will die. And you had to go through everything you just described to correctly understand my message. "Well, Isapop", you'd say, "that was one helluva piss poor way to get an urgent message to anybody." Kinda the OP's point.
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2018 18:46:32 GMT
Vegas Now, just imagine if I had to get a life saving message to you. If you don't correctly understand it, you will die. And you had to go through everything you just described to correctly understand my message. "Well, Isapop", you'd say, "that was one helluva piss poor way to get an urgent message to anybody." Kinda the OP's point. Yes.... And, you'll notice that.... if you read my first response to the OP... I agreed with him. EDIT: Or, at the very least, I don't have an issue with that stance. |
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Post by Isapop on Dec 9, 2018 20:02:07 GMT
Vegas Now, just imagine if I had to get a life saving message to you. If you don't correctly understand it, you will die. And you had to go through everything you just described to correctly understand my message. "Well, Isapop", you'd say, "that was one helluva piss poor way to get an urgent message to anybody." Kinda the OP's point. Yes.... And, you'll notice that.... if you read my first response to the OP... I agreed with him. EDIT: Or, at the very least, I don't have an issue with that stance. You agree, or have no issue with what the OP said. And yet you claim to have achieved the "CORRECT UNDERSTANDING" of the Bible, which, for reasons the OP lays out, would not exist.
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2018 20:49:00 GMT
Yes.... And, you'll notice that.... if you read my first response to the OP... I agreed with him. EDIT: Or, at the very least, I don't have an issue with that stance. You agree, or have no issue with what the OP said. And yet you claim to have achieved the "CORRECT UNDERSTANDING" of the Bible, which, for reasons the OP lays out, would not exist.
Yes. Those two concepts are not reliant upon each other.... DUH! And, for the record, I never claimed to have a CORRECT UNDERSTANDING of The Bible.... Just that some issues aren't as "interpretory" as some have claimed... there is some basic understanding that can be achieved on some issues. And that fact doesn't negate the OP's point. |
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Post by goz on Dec 9, 2018 20:59:48 GMT
You agree, or have no issue with what the OP said. And yet you claim to have achieved the "CORRECT UNDERSTANDING" of the Bible, which, for reasons the OP lays out, would not exist.
Yes. Those two concepts are not reliant upon each other.... DUH! And, for the record, I never claimed to have a CORRECT UNDERSTANDING of The Bible.... Just that some issues aren't as "interpretory" as some have claimed... there is some basic understanding that can be achieved on some issues. And that fact doesn't negate the OP's point. Gee, we are SO lucky on this board that we have so many 'experts' on the Bible. Let me think.....to name a few there is @wintersuicide, @coolgjs, @cody and now @vegas. We should have a 'Bible off'!...because we are so sure that they will agree...…..WAIT...maybe the OP had a point? |
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2018 21:08:04 GMT
And, for the record, I never claimed to have a CORRECT UNDERSTANDING of The Bible.Gee, we are SO lucky on this board that we have so many 'experts' on the Bible. @vegas.Yeah... because not claiming to have a correct understanding of The Bible means that I'm an expert. Thanks for playing "Goz Is A Dumbass Twat" game.... I'm sure there's some consolation prizes for ya. ...You already own the home version. |
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Post by goz on Dec 9, 2018 21:20:20 GMT
Gee, we are SO lucky on this board that we have so many 'experts' on the Bible. @vegas.Yeah... because not claiming to have a correct understanding of The Bible means that I'm an expert. Thanks for playing "Goz Is A Dumbass Twat" game.... I'm sure there's some consolation prizes for ya. ...I'm sure you already own the home version. So, you are backing out of the Bibleoff? Such a shame after all this Perhaps you are right and it is better that you back out now, as the others are ABSOLUTELY certain that they are experts and that their view is correct. There is clearly no place for the doubtful in this Bible/religion/faith/salvation scenario! How about another seven years? That might help! |
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2018 21:27:33 GMT
Yeah... because not claiming to have a correct understanding of The Bible means that I'm an expert. Thanks for playing "Goz Is A Dumbass Twat" game.... I'm sure there's some consolation prizes for ya. ...I'm sure you already own the home version. So, you are backing out of the Bibleoff? Such a shame after all this Perhaps you are right and it is better that you back out now, as the others are ABSOLUTELY certain that they are experts and that their view is correct. There is clearly no place for the doubtful in this Bible/religion/faith/salvation scenario! How about another seven years? That might help! And none of that means that I actually claim to be an expert. Are you going for the "Goz Is A Dumbass Twat" BONUS ROUND?? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 9, 2018 21:32:05 GMT
Only groups like the LDS and JWs believe in a works based salvation. That’s one of the reasons why the church has declared them heretical cults. Most of their teachings differ from Christian orthodoxy and cannot be reconciled by biblical scripture but is derived from their own books(Book of Mormon and Watchtower etc) Except that the Church (meaning the Roman Catholic Church of course, which happens to be the largest denomination of Christianity) ALSO believes that works play a role in salvation, as opposed the Protestant view in Sola Fide. For anyone who accepts that salvation is through Christ, then there are SIX possible options to this riddle: A) Salvation is by faith alone: John 3:18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.Romans 4:3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”Romans 11:6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.Ephesians 2:8-98 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.Titus 3:5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,B) Salvation is by works alone: Jeremiah 17:10I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserveMatthew 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Romans 2:5-65 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 He will render to each one according to his worksEphesians 2:10For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.C) Salvation is by faith combined with works: James 2:14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.James 2:24You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.D) Salvation is by faith, which counts as a work: John 6:29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”Romans 4:5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.E) Salvation is by works, which counts as faith: John 3:21But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.Romans 2:14-1514 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.F) Salvation is neither by faith NOR worksMatthew 18:1-51 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3 and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me,Luke 18:15-1615 People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.1 Corinthians 7:14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. The reason this is such a divide among the different Christian groups in the first place is because they bible itself lends credence to all of these views (depending on which passage you are reading from). lol Everytime... |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 9, 2018 21:43:03 GMT
Isapop You’re insane He is most certainly arguing the pretend fallacy of Bible interpretation. This particular book serves the same intent as any other book which is why it’s crazy talk and why I specifically addressed it Congratulations on being smart enough to figure out that I was indeed saying this book was developed for the same purpose as nearly all other books - to record, read, and understand over a longer period of time than an oral tradition or making it up in the fly. That it has more influence is irrelevant to that very obvious purpose. He is arguing the pretend fallacy of Bible interpretation? What do you even mean by that phrase? What is this thing you call the "fallacy of Bible interpretation"? The Bible serves the same intent as any other book? By any common understanding of the phrase "a book's intent" a cook book, a spy novel, and a biography all have different intents. And for a Christian, the Bible has an intent that is unique among books, to transmit God's plan for salvation.
You appear unable to even make any sense, and I'M the one who's insane?
This thread is clearly about Bible interpretation and the typical theophobiacs pretend knowledge of it. It always is and in that a fake argument is made that because people interpret it different, the flaw is in the Bible which is stupid. I already said that so I'm going to assume you didn;t understand that either. For a Christian, it certainly is the most important book ever, but that doesn't change it from being a book. The thing you have to ask yourself is what exactly does that have to do with you? Not only do you not believe what it teaches but you have whined on regular occasions about what upsets you about it. So even though you know so much about the Bible that you don't seem to like it, what exactly do you want God to do that would differentiate from reading a book that explains the same purpose? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 9, 2018 21:54:41 GMT
Not to mention the Bible actually has several rejected books that never made it in That would be a good thing. |
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Post by goz on Dec 9, 2018 21:54:55 GMT
He is arguing the pretend fallacy of Bible interpretation? What do you even mean by that phrase? What is this thing you call the "fallacy of Bible interpretation"? The Bible serves the same intent as any other book? By any common understanding of the phrase "a book's intent" a cook book, a spy novel, and a biography all have different intents. And for a Christian, the Bible has an intent that is unique among books, to transmit God's plan for salvation.
You appear unable to even make any sense, and I'M the one who's insane?
This thread is clearly about Bible interpretation and the typical theophobiacs pretend knowledge of it. It always is and in that a fake argument is made that because people interpret it different, the flaw is in the Bible which is stupid. I already said that so I'm going to assume you didn;t understand that either. For a Christian, it certainly is the most important book ever, but that doesn't change it from being a book. The thing you have to ask yourself is what exactly does that have to do with you? Not only do you not believe what it teaches but you have whined on regular occasions about what upsets you about it. So even though you know so much about the Bible that you don't seem to like it, what exactly do you want God to do that would differentiate from reading a book that explains the same purpose?...make sense? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 9, 2018 21:56:26 GMT
This thread is clearly about Bible interpretation and the typical theophobiacs pretend knowledge of it. It always is and in that a fake argument is made that because people interpret it different, the flaw is in the Bible which is stupid. I already said that so I'm going to assume you didn;t understand that either. For a Christian, it certainly is the most important book ever, but that doesn't change it from being a book. The thing you have to ask yourself is what exactly does that have to do with you? Not only do you not believe what it teaches but you have whined on regular occasions about what upsets you about it. So even though you know so much about the Bible that you don't seem to like it, what exactly do you want God to do that would differentiate from reading a book that explains the same purpose?...make sense? Sounds like a personal problem. If you need help with it all you have to do is ask me nicely!  |
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Post by goz on Dec 9, 2018 22:02:24 GMT
Sounds like a personal problem. If you need help with it all you have to do is ask me nicely! ….butt...buttt...butttt...how do I choose between you and @winterssuicide and @cody when you all say something different? (Vegas wimped out) Dear God, Could you please send clear instructions in your updated 'Life Manual/Bible thingiel' so that I have a better chance of having a reasonable chance of believing you? What with modern computing technology, since your last effort, it should be a 'piece of piss' easy. Thanks in advance, Goz (see? we almost share the same name)  |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 9, 2018 22:05:23 GMT
Reasing is fundamental. I specifically referenced the reader not the author. I’ll see where you go with this before explain this manual that is my post to you It is the responsibility of the author to make his prose intelligible to his intended audience. The Bible doesn't seem to be an advanced manual intended solely for the high priesthood, so maybe if God updated his manual more often he could have avoided some holy wars, religious schisms, and royal excommunications. That is completely untrue. It is the responsibility of the reader to grasp the material they are reading. If it is written in your language and you are not illiterate, the Bible is not beyond understanding unless you're lazy. Are you lazy? Shakespeare isn't meant for high reading either, but it can take time to understand it fully and it is a choice to not want to delve into it. There shouldn't even be an expectation that the writer tailors a writing to individual preference. What if the person trying to read it is a kid...Or an idiot? I find that most people reject that which they don;t like to hear, so even if the Bible was written in a way that a 2 year old could grasp, it would still be largely rejected. After all, that's what it's writings said would happen. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 9, 2018 22:06:10 GMT
Sounds like a personal problem. If you need help with it all you have to do is ask me nicely! ….butt...buttt...butttt...how do I choose between you and @winterssuicide and @cody when you all say something different? (Vegas wimped out) Dear God, Could you please send clear instructions in your updated 'Life Manual/Bible thingiel' so that I have a better chance of having a reasonable chance of believing you? What with modern computing technology, since your last effort, it should be a 'piece of piss' easy. Thanks in advance, Goz (see? we almost share the same name) Are you saying that you lack intelligence to choose the path that makes the most sense to you? |
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Post by goz on Dec 9, 2018 22:26:08 GMT
o ….butt...buttt...butttt...how do I choose between you and @winterssuicide and @cody when you all say something different? (Vegas wimped out) Dear God, Could you please send clear instructions in your updated 'Life Manual/Bible thingiel' so that I have a better chance of having a reasonable chance of believing you? What with modern computing technology, since your last effort, it should be a 'piece of piss' easy. Thanks in advance, Goz (see? we almost share the same name) Are you saying that you lack intelligence to choose the path that makes the most sense to you? What difference does a level of intelligence make to the problem? If I buy an Ikea cupboard and the instructions are wrong or unclear, no amount of intelligence can help me. ...or I could take the atheist approach and Google the instructions or get a man from Ikea to put it together and pay some money lol OR more likely choose a ready made more attractive cupboard that better suits my needs, that I can see already before I buy and save the hassle. lol |
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2018 22:45:48 GMT
Sounds like a personal problem. If you need help with it all you have to do is ask me nicely! ….butt...buttt...butttt...how do I choose between you and @winterssuicide and @cody when you all say something different? (Vegas wimped out) Nobody wimped out of anything.. You haven't asked for anything... You really are just a dumbass twat sometimes... Meanwhile, how the hell are you too stupid to figure out how to figure this shit out? The problem is that you aren't trying.. You'd rather just be a dumbassed twat throwing her own feces at people that she thinks has tried. |
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Post by Isapop on Dec 9, 2018 22:57:46 GMT
He is arguing the pretend fallacy of Bible interpretation? What do you even mean by that phrase? What is this thing you call the "fallacy of Bible interpretation"? The Bible serves the same intent as any other book? By any common understanding of the phrase "a book's intent" a cook book, a spy novel, and a biography all have different intents. And for a Christian, the Bible has an intent that is unique among books, to transmit God's plan for salvation.
You appear unable to even make any sense, and I'M the one who's insane?
what exactly do you want God to do that would differentiate from reading a book that explains the same purpose? If God wants something of us (and according to most religions, he does, with our very lives at stake), then instead of leaving his very existence in question and allowing what he wants to be a matter of great dispute among those who believe in him, he ought to make both his existence and what he wants indisputably known to all. If he gave us free will, some will heed him, some won't, but at least everyone will know the score. |
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Post by goz on Dec 9, 2018 23:23:19 GMT
….butt...buttt...butttt...how do I choose between you and @winterssuicide and @cody when you all say something different? (Vegas wimped out) Nobody wimped out of anything.. You haven't asked for anything... You really are just a dumbass twat sometimes... Meanwhile, how the hell are you too stupid to figure out how to figure this shit out? The problem is that you aren't trying.. You'd rather just be a dumbassed twat throwing her own feces at people that she thinks has tried. You have missed the point, as usual. Why would I ( or any person with intelligence) 1. Try to figure out something that is a fantasy and not founded in fact? 2. Take seriously those that have 'tried'. 3. Take seriously that they have ALL' tried 'and ALL claim to have succeeded, at least in part and the kicker. 4. The results of ALL their efforts are ALL different. OP, you win. |
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