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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 7, 2018 15:28:25 GMT
Will you (finally) give up on the franchise? If you're a fan, will the series be forever marred for you? I'll admit that it wouldn't be my first choice as I don't think sexual orientation has much to do with crime fighting. That said, the transgender question is intriguing as there are a handful of heroes/villians who have swapped genders in the comic books so, it's not without precedence. In that context, we shrug and usually ignore the change as a gimmick but, in the cinematic arena, it seems to be more contraversial. I don't have any apprehension about it overall, and I'm not overly concerned about it from a social or political perspective. If it's a superhero I'm interested in, I really don't care. I do think it would be a mistake to take an existing character and change their sexuality. Characters like the Flash have been in long-term relationships in the comics with supporting characters for decades. Those supporting characters, at times, achieve an honored place in the mythos (Lois Lane, Iris Allen, Steve Trevor, Mary Jane, etc.) that would be compromised if their love interests were suddenly assigned a new orientation. I'm a moderate fan of the so-called "transdimensional troubleshooter," America Chavez (codename: Miss America). I didn't discover she was a lesbian until I'd read a few stories with her and, it was just an aside in the issue. It didn't take away from the character for me at all.  |
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Post by DSDSquared on Dec 7, 2018 15:53:26 GMT
Will you (finally) give up on the franchise? If you're a fan, will the series be forever marred for you? I'll admit that it wouldn't be my first choice as I don't think sexual orientation has much to do with crime fighting. That said, the transgender question is intriguing as there are a handful of heroes/villians who have swapped genders in the comic books so, it's not without precedence. In that context, we shrug and usually ignore the change as a gimmick but, in the cinematic arena, it seems to be more contraversial. I don't have any apprehension about it overall, and I'm not overly concerned about it from a social or political perspective. If it's a superhero I'm interested in, I really don't care. I do think it would be a mistake to take an existing character and change their sexuality. Characters like the Flash have been in long-term relationships in the comics with supporting characters for decades. Those supporting characters, at times, achieve an honored place in the mythos (Lois Lane, Iris Allen, Steve Trevor, Mary Jane, etc.) that would be compromised if their love interests were suddenly assigned a new orientation. I'm a moderate fan of the so-called "transdimensional troubleshooter," America Chavez (codename: Ms. America). I didn't discover she was a lesbian until I'd read a few stories with her and, it was just an aside in the issue. It didn't take away from the character for me at all. They already have in Thor 3. |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Dec 7, 2018 16:00:56 GMT
I doubt I'll respond at all.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 7, 2018 16:06:28 GMT
I would be extremely happy about it.
The only downside would be the Anti-sjw trolls bombarding this place like they did with Black Panther.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 7, 2018 16:09:21 GMT
With complete and utter indifference.
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Post by charzhino on Dec 7, 2018 16:17:09 GMT
Depends how they market it. If they push hard and force feed the ''look at us, we are inclusive in 2018/2019!'' then that's only going to drive people away. If they act casual about it and develop the situation naturally then there is no cause for protest.
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Post by poutinep on Dec 7, 2018 16:56:30 GMT
Doesn't make any difference to me. The sad part is the trolls that go 'omg sjw agenda down my throat!'
Gay people exist in real life, it's inevitable that they exist in movies too.
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Post by Skaathar on Dec 7, 2018 17:09:30 GMT
It depends on how they present it. I'm perfectly fine with LGBTQ people, both in real life and in fictional shows. What I dislike are forced agendas being included in movies, whether that agenda is about LGBTQ, politics, religion, gun violence, feminism, etc.
My stance has always been thus: Include it IF it makes sense.
Or if you want a more proactive version of that: Include it but make sure it makes sense.
So if the MCU adds LGBTQ characters and makes sure their sexuality is necessary for the plot, then I'm all for it. If they add an LGBTQ character just so they can check the hey-look-at-how-progressive-we-are checkbox (like the Arrowverse does) then I feel like you're only hurting the LGBTQ movement in the long run. It generates more backlash with the general audience than acceptance. And this is true for any form of agenda in a show. If you're going to include an agenda then at least make sure it serves the plot of the show. Including it for the sake of the agenda itself does nothing but harm the agenda.
Now if I was head of MCU, I have a few ideas on how to include LGBTQ characters without causing too much backlash... but we can discuss this in a separate discussion.
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Post by scabab on Dec 7, 2018 17:22:24 GMT
I wouldn't really care one way or the other. I don't watch these movies for that.
I'd be about as interested in that part of the movie as I was with Doctor Strange and his relationship to Rachel McAdams character.
I'd rather they leave it out completely for all characters outside of Spider-man. Then it can be left up in the air.
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Post by Power Ranger on Dec 7, 2018 17:41:40 GMT
It wouldn’t bother me. I think that few would be bothered by it.
But I disagree that it is irrelevant to crime fighting. I want characters who are fleshed out. Their various nuances contribute to the character construction.
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Post by Skaathar on Dec 7, 2018 17:49:08 GMT
It wouldn’t bother me. I think that few would be bothered by it.This might come as a surprise to you, but LGBTQ relationships are still a pretty touchy subject for majority of countries around the world. Regardless of where I stand on this topic, it's worth pointing out that the idea that "few would be bothered by it" is just plain incorrect. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Dec 7, 2018 17:51:09 GMT
It depends on how they present it. I'm perfectly fine with LGBTQ people, both in real life and in fictional shows. What I dislike are forced agendas being included in movies, whether that agenda is about LGBTQ, politics, religion, gun violence, feminism, etc. My stance has always been thus: Include it IF it makes sense. Or if you want a more proactive version of that: Include it but make sure it makes sense. So if the MCU adds LGBTQ characters and makes sure their sexuality is necessary for the plot, then I'm all for it. If they add an LGBTQ character just so they can check the hey-look-at-how-progressive-we-are checkbox (like the Arrowverse does) then I feel like you're only hurting the LGBTQ movement in the long run. It generates more backlash with the general audience than acceptance. And this is true for any form of agenda in a show. If you're going to include an agenda then at least make sure it serves the plot of the show. Including it for the sake of the agenda itself does nothing but harm the agenda. Now if I was head of MCU, I have a few ideas on how to include LGBTQ characters without causing too much backlash... but we can discuss this in a separate discussion. I agree and disagree. I think it should be low key and casual not a "look at what we are doing give us credit for being inclusive." The problem I have is their sexuality having to be part of the plot to include it. To me someone's sexuality is just another fact about a person. It's mundane. Most of the time people being Heterosexual isn't key to a plot, but is in movies/shows. Why would we have to have the extra pressure that to include it has to be necessary to the plot. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you actually mean when you say that. |
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Post by Power Ranger on Dec 7, 2018 17:52:16 GMT
I would be extremely happy about it. The only downside would be the Anti-sjw trolls bombarding this place like they did with Black Panther. Anti-SJWism is anti-SJW, not anti- diversity. Like Charzino said, if they don’t try to use it for virtue signalling or other self-gratification disguised as altruism, the anti-SJWs won’t care much about it. |
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Post by Power Ranger on Dec 7, 2018 17:55:49 GMT
It wouldn’t bother me. I think that few would be bothered by it.This might come as a surprise to you, but LGBTQ relationships are still a pretty touchy subject for majority of countries around the world. Regardless of where I stand on this topic, it's worth pointing out that the idea that "few would be bothered by it" is just plain incorrect. Maybe, only few in the west. Let the conservative countries ban the film. They wouldn’t contribute to ten percent of the BO if we’re talking about the Middle East and parts of Asia. I’m not including China, who will probably allow it so long as it’s not too graphic. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 17:58:50 GMT
It doesn't matter to me. For all I know, a bunch of characters are already gay and it's undeclared by the movies because it's never had to come up. It's not just a given they're all straight because they haven't stated otherwise.
Maybe I'm underselling it. I might be a little happier than 'it doesn't matter to me'.
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Post by dazz on Dec 7, 2018 18:17:02 GMT
Well Deadpool will fuck anything and he slaughtered a room full of dudes wearing stiletto's and it didn't bother me none, so I couldn't give two shits, just don't be preachy or up your own arse about it and a studio can give me a cross dressing latino muslim quadriplegic bisexual gerontophile dwarf for all I care just make it fun to watch and I will see it.
If them doing something like that from a well meaning place causes you to take offense then you got some issues imo.
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Post by Skaathar on Dec 7, 2018 18:29:33 GMT
It depends on how they present it. I'm perfectly fine with LGBTQ people, both in real life and in fictional shows. What I dislike are forced agendas being included in movies, whether that agenda is about LGBTQ, politics, religion, gun violence, feminism, etc. My stance has always been thus: Include it IF it makes sense. Or if you want a more proactive version of that: Include it but make sure it makes sense. So if the MCU adds LGBTQ characters and makes sure their sexuality is necessary for the plot, then I'm all for it. If they add an LGBTQ character just so they can check the hey-look-at-how-progressive-we-are checkbox (like the Arrowverse does) then I feel like you're only hurting the LGBTQ movement in the long run. It generates more backlash with the general audience than acceptance. And this is true for any form of agenda in a show. If you're going to include an agenda then at least make sure it serves the plot of the show. Including it for the sake of the agenda itself does nothing but harm the agenda. Now if I was head of MCU, I have a few ideas on how to include LGBTQ characters without causing too much backlash... but we can discuss this in a separate discussion. I agree and disagree. I think it should be low key and casual not a "look at what we are doing give us credit for being inclusive." The problem I have is their sexuality having to be part of the plot to include it. To me someone's sexuality is just another fact about a person. It's mundane. Most of the time people being Heterosexual isn't key to a plot, but is in movies/shows. Why would we have to have the extra pressure that to include it has to be necessary to the plot. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you actually mean when you say that. Do we know how many relationships Falcon has been in the past? Do we know if Warmachine has kids? Do we know what Shuri's favorite color is? Do we know if Loki is still a virgin? All of these would be facts regarding the characters yet none of them were addressed in the movies. Why? Because they weren't essential to the plot. It's the same with sexuality. We don't need to address the character's sexuality unless it serves the plot. And this is not just limited to LGBTQ, this is for straight characters as well. Let me address your point that I don't want extra pressure to be on LGBTQ characters only, I want the pressure to be on any character. Their sexuality should be addressed only if it's part of the plot, regardless of what that orientation is. You don't want a straight character just saying "Hey, I'm straight" out of nowhere. If they're going to show that a character is heterosexual then at least make sure it's part of the plot... Otherwise just don't address their sexuality at all. This is the reason why we don't know the sexual orientation of characters like Bucky, Falcon, Valkyrie, Shuri, M'Baku, Loki, Warmachine, etc. Their sexual orientatiom was never addressed because it was not necessary for the plot. Assuming they're straight would be incorrect. So the MCU has actually handled this pretty smartly in the past... I hope they continue with it. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 7, 2018 18:55:54 GMT
I would be extremely happy about it. The only downside would be the Anti-sjw trolls bombarding this place like they did with Black Panther. Like Charzino said, if they don’t try to use it for virtue signalling or other self-gratification disguised as altruism, the anti-SJWs won’t care much about it. What's the difference? The only term dumber than 'social justice warrior' is 'virtue signaling.' Conservatives simply cannot understand why someone would have an opinion on a social topic that does not agree with their own, therefore anyone who speaks on said topic or depicts it as part of everyday life (which it is) is a 'social justice warrior' who must be 'virtue signaling' for attention. It's a ridiculous mindset. Back to the topic at hand, who cares? How much of any of the MCU films have revolved around a love story? I'm not particularly interested in a romance in a superhero flick, whether it's gay or straight. But if Falcon is crushing on another male character as a subplot I wouldn't care one way or another. This shouldn't even be a talking point by now. |
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Post by Vassaggo on Dec 7, 2018 19:06:11 GMT
I agree and disagree. I think it should be low key and casual not a "look at what we are doing give us credit for being inclusive." The problem I have is their sexuality having to be part of the plot to include it. To me someone's sexuality is just another fact about a person. It's mundane. Most of the time people being Heterosexual isn't key to a plot, but is in movies/shows. Why would we have to have the extra pressure that to include it has to be necessary to the plot. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you actually mean when you say that. Do we know how many relationships Falcon has been in the past? Do we know if Warmachine has kids? Do we know what Shuri's favorite color is? Do we know if Loki is still a virgin? All of these would be facts regarding the characters yet none of them were addressed in the movies. Why? Because they weren't essential to the plot. It's the same with sexuality. We don't need to address the character's sexuality unless it serves the plot. And this is not just limited to LGBTQ, this is for straight characters as well. Let me address your point that I don't want extra pressure to be on LGBTQ characters only, I want the pressure to be on any character. Their sexuality should be addressed only if it's part of the plot, regardless of what that orientation is. You don't want a straight character just saying "Hey, I'm straight" out of nowhere. If they're going to show that a character is heterosexual then at least make sure it's part of the plot... Otherwise just don't address their sexuality at all. This is the reason why we don't know the sexual orientation of characters like Bucky, Falcon, Valkyrie, Shuri, M'Baku, Loki, Warmachine, etc. Their sexual orientatiom was never addressed because it was not necessary for the plot. Assuming they're straight would be incorrect. So the MCU has actually handled this pretty smartly in the past... I hope they continue with it. I get what you are saying but fleshing out a character doesn't always serve the plot. There should be a happy medium. We know Falcon is at least interested in women because he tells cap to come by the VA to impress the girl at the front desk. Now I know that serves the plot so Cap can go to the VA later. Also in the Winter Soldier you have the on going conversation of Widow trying to get Cap on a date. This doesn't specifically move the plot. It's banter between two colleagues. To me it would hold no more like or disdain if Widow threw in a few male names and Cap show slight interest, but ultimately turned Widow down. (Like he did throughout the movie with the females) |
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Post by thenewnexus on Dec 7, 2018 19:10:47 GMT
As long as they do better than how Star trek 3 did this go for it
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