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Post by Rufus-T on Dec 10, 2018 20:22:53 GMT
The guy who, when he came into the game, the other team said "OH shit, game over". That's what I would say makes a HOF closer. Most definitely. Sometimes when a closer comes in, the "Oh Shit" is from his own team. Jose Valverde, Armando Benitez, and Jason Isringhausen had that vibe. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Dec 10, 2018 20:36:08 GMT
The guy who, when he came into the game, the other team said "OH shit, game over". That's what I would say makes a HOF closer. Most definitely. Sometimes when a closer comes in, the "Oh Shit" is from his own team. Jose Valverde, Armando Benitez, and Jason Isringhausen had that vibe. Heathcliff Slocomb. Twice I won $100 bet, wagering that when Heathcliff came in, he would blow the save for the Red Sox. I still say the Heathcliff Slocomb trade was the worse in Baseball history. Fuck Brock-Broglio, Ryan -Fregosi. Slocomb was a certifiable waste. He was 0-5, 5.97 ERA, 1.971 WHIP, when Seattle gave up Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for his "services". Granted, D-Lo and Tek were unprovens when the were dealt, but I would have traded a case of the clap for Heathcliff. Gonorrhea is easier to get rid of. And less painful |
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 10, 2018 20:57:56 GMT
I remember the radio cried foul when Bill Mazeroski was voted in. I never saw him play. From what I heard, he was only known for the 1960 WS HR. He got a lots of buddy in the voting committee as I heard, so he got in. For some reason that is beyond me, how does Gil Hodges never voted in. He was an integral part of the 50s Dodgers. He brought the Amazing Mets to the 1969 WS championship. How the hell did it took Jim Rice 15 years on the ballot to get in? He should have been there at most in his 3 year. I just heard that Albert Belle is one of the candidates this year. How is it he is not voted in over Harold Baines? Talking about dominant player, Albert Belle was it in back in the 90s, cork or no cork. These voters obviously are not voting unbiasedly. Rice is typically listed as one of the worst Hall of Famers by the Sabermetrics group . . . at least before Baines got in. |
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Post by Rufus-T on Dec 10, 2018 21:11:20 GMT
Most definitely. Sometimes when a closer comes in, the "Oh Shit" is from his own team. Jose Valverde, Armando Benitez, and Jason Isringhausen had that vibe. Heathcliff Slocomb. Twice I won $100 bet, wagering that when Heathcliff came in, he would blow the save for the Red Sox. I still say the Heathcliff Slocomb trade was the worse in Baseball history. Fuck Brock-Broglio, Ryan -Fregosi. Slocomb was a certifiable waste. He was 0-5, 5.97 ERA, 1.971 WHIP, when Seattle gave up Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for his "services". Granted, D-Lo and Tek were unprovens when the were dealt, but I would have traded a case of the clap for Heathcliff. Gonorrhea is easier to get rid of. And less painful Remember when the Sox got Eric Gagne in the middle of the 2007 season? They still win the WS despite of him though. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Dec 10, 2018 21:22:05 GMT
Heathcliff Slocomb. Twice I won $100 bet, wagering that when Heathcliff came in, he would blow the save for the Red Sox. I still say the Heathcliff Slocomb trade was the worse in Baseball history. Fuck Brock-Broglio, Ryan -Fregosi. Slocomb was a certifiable waste. He was 0-5, 5.97 ERA, 1.971 WHIP, when Seattle gave up Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for his "services". Granted, D-Lo and Tek were unprovens when the were dealt, but I would have traded a case of the clap for Heathcliff. Gonorrhea is easier to get rid of. And less painful Remember when the Sox got Eric Gagne in the middle of the 2007 season? They still win the WS despite of him though. Eric Gag-me you mean. Dopey trade, David Murphy had a few good years with Texas. Gag-me was sheer terror whenever he came into a game. He looked good with Texas, couldn't handle Boston. Thank heavens Papelbon stayed healthy. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Dec 10, 2018 21:31:09 GMT
I remember the radio cried foul when Bill Mazeroski was voted in. I never saw him play. From what I heard, he was only known for the 1960 WS HR. He got a lots of buddy in the voting committee as I heard, so he got in. For some reason that is beyond me, how does Gil Hodges never voted in. He was an integral part of the 50s Dodgers. He brought the Amazing Mets to the 1969 WS championship. How the hell did it took Jim Rice 15 years on the ballot to get in? He should have been there at most in his 3 year. I just heard that Albert Belle is one of the candidates this year. How is it he is not voted in over Harold Baines? Talking about dominant player, Albert Belle was it in back in the 90s, cork or no cork. These voters obviously are not voting unbiasedly. Rice is typically listed as one of the worst Hall of Famers by the Sabermetrics group . . . at least before Baines got in. Yeah, but, at times, Rice was an elite player. Painfully slow, hit into too many double plays, played third fiddle to Yaz and Fred Lynn. Eight AS games, eight top 20 MVP votes (six top five), got old quick. If he had DHed as much as Baines, he would have put up epic offensive numbers. |
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Post by Rufus-T on Dec 10, 2018 23:02:48 GMT
lol. The sports talk today is all about Harold Baines.
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Post by OrsonSwelles on Dec 11, 2018 1:15:01 GMT
Maybe no one was close in opportunities because he was healthy, consistent AND good while others of the era weren't. BTW he was the all time leader in saves from 1993-2006. The modern save has been going on for 30+ years now. How many guys have more than him? Nope.
As I stated above, the save was a new stat that wasn't used nearly as much. Lee Smith is more a product of timing than anything else.
1969-1979 (First 11 years of the save stat): 8209 league saves 1980-1990 (First 11 years of Smith's career): 10592 league saves
1969-1979 (First 11 years of the save stat): 8725 complete games
1980-1990 (First 11 years of Smith's career): 5184 complete games
Prior to Smith's time, the game was managed differently.
1969-1981 (First 13 years of save stat): 9716 league saves 1982-1994 (First 13 years of Smith's closer career): 13295 league saves
1969-1981 (First 13 years of save stat): 9786 complete games 1982-1994 (First 13 years of Smith's closer career): 5151 complete games
Not sure what those numbers have to do with Smith. In the last 30+ years teams have used closers more than ever. Smith was the all-time leader for over a decade and despite having retired a 'career' ago he still has been surpassed by only 2 players. Craig Kimbrell is the closest active player (14th on the list) and he has approximately 50% fewer saves. He might eventually pass Smith. I don't see anyone else among active players passing him anytime soon. Maybe that's what this committee realized: he's third all time in an important category and should be in the HOF for it. Back when he was on the ballot Hoffman was saving lots of games and Rivera was coming on too so the voters thought Smith's total wasn't going to be all that impressive in the future but here we are in 2018 and Smith's total is looking more and more like an almost unbeatable number. |
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Post by fjenkins on Dec 11, 2018 16:40:25 GMT
Papi flunked a steroid test. If Bonds and Clemens ain't getting, he aint. Unlike Bonds and Clemens, Papi got love flowing across Japan. He got so much love that voters may ignore the fact like they did with Pudge. I was surprised Pudge got in on first ballot. It actually scares me that what you wrote may happen. I was surprised Pudge got in on the first try too. If Papi gets in, Bonds and Clemens will definitely get in before their ten year is up. But honestly, the HOF isn't even the HOF anymore. With guys like Morris and Baines getting in, it's just a joke now. |
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Post by fjenkins on Dec 11, 2018 16:41:56 GMT
I remember the radio cried foul when Bill Mazeroski was voted in. I never saw him play. From what I heard, he was only known for the 1960 WS HR. He got a lots of buddy in the voting committee as I heard, so he got in. For some reason that is beyond me, how does Gil Hodges never voted in. He was an integral part of the 50s Dodgers. He brought the Amazing Mets to the 1969 WS championship. How the hell did it took Jim Rice 15 years on the ballot to get in? He should have been there at most in his 3 year. I just heard that Albert Belle is one of the candidates this year. How is it he is not voted in over Harold Baines? Talking about dominant player, Albert Belle was it in back in the 90s, cork or no cork. These voters obviously are not voting unbiasedly. I just read a bio on Hodges. He should definitely be in as a player/manager. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Dec 11, 2018 18:16:55 GMT
Unlike Bonds and Clemens, Papi got love flowing across Japan. He got so much love that voters may ignore the fact like they did with Pudge. I was surprised Pudge got in on first ballot. It actually scares me that what you wrote may happen. I was surprised Pudge got in on the first try too. If Papi gets in, Bonds and Clemens will definitely get in before their ten year is up. But honestly, the HOF isn't even the HOF anymore. With guys like Morris and Baines getting in, it's just a joke now. I think Baines helps the Juicers. "Hey, if a mediocre grinder like HB is in, Bonds should be in, no matter what he did".
It'd the Hall of Very Good now, might as well live with it. Let in Larry Walker, Jason Bay, Mario Mendoza, Moonlight Graham
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Post by fjenkins on Dec 11, 2018 23:31:33 GMT
It actually scares me that what you wrote may happen. I was surprised Pudge got in on the first try too. If Papi gets in, Bonds and Clemens will definitely get in before their ten year is up. But honestly, the HOF isn't even the HOF anymore. With guys like Morris and Baines getting in, it's just a joke now. I think Baines helps the Juicers. "Hey, if a mediocre grinder like HB is in, Bonds should be in, no matter what he did".
It'd the Hall of Very Good now, might as well live with it. Let in Larry Walker, Jason Bay, Mario Mendoza, Moonlight Graham
But Baines didn't cheat or do anything illegal. He just got it because of dumb voters. |
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Dec 12, 2018 0:53:22 GMT
I remember the radio cried foul when Bill Mazeroski was voted in. I never saw him play. From what I heard, he was only known for the 1960 WS HR. He got a lots of buddy in the voting committee as I heard, so he got in. For some reason that is beyond me, how does Gil Hodges never voted in. He was an integral part of the 50s Dodgers. He brought the Amazing Mets to the 1969 WS championship. How the hell did it took Jim Rice 15 years on the ballot to get in? He should have been there at most in his 3 year. I just heard that Albert Belle is one of the candidates this year. How is it he is not voted in over Harold Baines? Talking about dominant player, Albert Belle was it in back in the 90s, cork or no cork. These voters obviously are not voting unbiasedly. I just read a bio on Hodges. He should definitely be in as a player/manager. |
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Post by NJtoTX on Dec 12, 2018 1:05:46 GMT
I think Baines helps the Juicers. "Hey, if a mediocre grinder like HB is in, Bonds should be in, no matter what he did".
It'd the Hall of Very Good now, might as well live with it. Let in Larry Walker, Jason Bay, Mario Mendoza, Moonlight Graham
But Baines didn't cheat or do anything illegal. He just got it because of dumb voters. The 16-person committee that elected Baines included Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, one of Baines’ managers (Tony LaRussa) Baines GM in Baltimore (Pat Gillick), and a former teammate (Roberto Alomar). As a bloc, they provided one-third of the dozen votes needed for election on the 16-person committee. All four could have been disqualified from consideration of Baines due to conflicts of interest. |
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Post by millar70 on Dec 12, 2018 3:50:32 GMT
But Baines didn't cheat or do anything illegal. He just got it because of dumb voters. The 16-person committee that elected Baines included Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, one of Baines’ managers (Tony LaRussa) Baines GM in Baltimore (Pat Gillick), and a former teammate (Roberto Alomar). As a bloc, they provided one-third of the dozen votes needed for election on the 16-person committee. All four could have been disqualified from consideration of Baines due to conflicts of interest. Nice to have friends in high places. |
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 12, 2018 6:01:37 GMT
But Baines didn't cheat or do anything illegal. He just got it because of dumb voters. The 16-person committee that elected Baines included Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, one of Baines’ managers (Tony LaRussa) Baines GM in Baltimore (Pat Gillick), and a former teammate (Roberto Alomar). As a bloc, they provided one-third of the dozen votes needed for election on the 16-person committee. All four could have been disqualified from consideration of Baines due to conflicts of interest. One of the arguments I've heard for Baines is that he missed a combined 119 games because of the '81, '94, and '95 strikes. He finished his career with 2866 hits. If he just got one hit in each of those games, he's up to 2985 hits, but because he hit .286 in 1981, .294 in 1994, and .299 in 1995, he'd be getting more than one per game on average multiple times, which would give him 3000+ hits. Beyond that, Baines hit a home run every 13.39% of his hits. Baines ended his career with 384 home runs. If you divide 16 into the 119 games that he missed due to strikes, you get 13.44%. If he hit 400 home runs and had 3000 hits, is anyone arguing about his inclusion into the hall of fame? |
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Post by millar70 on Dec 12, 2018 7:22:22 GMT
The 16-person committee that elected Baines included Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, one of Baines’ managers (Tony LaRussa) Baines GM in Baltimore (Pat Gillick), and a former teammate (Roberto Alomar). As a bloc, they provided one-third of the dozen votes needed for election on the 16-person committee. All four could have been disqualified from consideration of Baines due to conflicts of interest. One of the arguments I've heard for Baines is that he missed a combined 119 games because of the '81, '94, and '95 strikes. He finished his career with 2866 hits. If he just got one hit in each of those games, he's up to 2985 hits, but because he hit .286 in 1981, .294 in 1994, and .299 in 1995, he'd be getting more than one per game on average multiple times, which would give him 3000+ hits. Beyond that, Baines hit a home run every 13.39% of his hits. Baines ended his career with 384 home runs. If you divide 16 into the 119 games that he missed due to strikes, you get 13.44%. If he hit 400 home runs and had 3000 hits, is anyone arguing about his inclusion into the hall of fame? So now we vote guys in because of what they might have done? |
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Post by Rufus-T on Dec 12, 2018 13:54:30 GMT
One of the arguments I've heard for Baines is that he missed a combined 119 games because of the '81, '94, and '95 strikes. He finished his career with 2866 hits. If he just got one hit in each of those games, he's up to 2985 hits, but because he hit .286 in 1981, .294 in 1994, and .299 in 1995, he'd be getting more than one per game on average multiple times, which would give him 3000+ hits. Beyond that, Baines hit a home run every 13.39% of his hits. Baines ended his career with 384 home runs. If you divide 16 into the 119 games that he missed due to strikes, you get 13.44%. If he hit 400 home runs and had 3000 hits, is anyone arguing about his inclusion into the hall of fame? So now we vote guys in because of what they might have done? lol. Back then, people did talk about why Thurman Munson should be in the Hall because of what he could have accomplished if not for the tragic end. |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Dec 12, 2018 14:03:27 GMT
One of the arguments I've heard for Baines is that he missed a combined 119 games because of the '81, '94, and '95 strikes. He finished his career with 2866 hits. If he just got one hit in each of those games, he's up to 2985 hits, but because he hit .286 in 1981, .294 in 1994, and .299 in 1995, he'd be getting more than one per game on average multiple times, which would give him 3000+ hits. Beyond that, Baines hit a home run every 13.39% of his hits. Baines ended his career with 384 home runs. If you divide 16 into the 119 games that he missed due to strikes, you get 13.44%. If he hit 400 home runs and had 3000 hits, is anyone arguing about his inclusion into the hall of fame? So now we vote guys in because of what they might have done? Len Bias for the HOF! |
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 12, 2018 14:04:49 GMT
One of the arguments I've heard for Baines is that he missed a combined 119 games because of the '81, '94, and '95 strikes. He finished his career with 2866 hits. If he just got one hit in each of those games, he's up to 2985 hits, but because he hit .286 in 1981, .294 in 1994, and .299 in 1995, he'd be getting more than one per game on average multiple times, which would give him 3000+ hits. Beyond that, Baines hit a home run every 13.39% of his hits. Baines ended his career with 384 home runs. If you divide 16 into the 119 games that he missed due to strikes, you get 13.44%. If he hit 400 home runs and had 3000 hits, is anyone arguing about his inclusion into the hall of fame? So now we vote guys in because of what they might have done? I wouldn't, and I wouldn't have voted Baines in. He's sort of the hitting version of Don Sutton, a compiler with great longevity. That being said, the only person who has more hits than Baines who won't be in the Hall of Fame (minus Bonds and Palmeiro who aren't in because of steroids) is Omar Vizquel, and Vizquel only has 11 more hits than Baines. I don't think Baines should be in, but people who are treating this like the greatest injustice in sports history are more ridiculous than the group of sixteen who got him in. |
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