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Post by DSDSquared on Dec 19, 2018 18:05:29 GMT
the best DCEU film. I know most would say Wonder Woman and I would have too easily when it first came out, but after tons of rewatches, I just find MOS more entertaining. I know it is not perfect, but the opening in Krypton was very well done and Cavill played a very good Superman IMO.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 19, 2018 18:13:19 GMT
Nah, I still really like it myself. There is a lot to admire. The childhood flashbacks, the score, Michael Shannon as Zod, Russell Crowe as Jor-El, the battle scenes, and Cavill really isn't that mopey. Is he serious yeah but there's an alien invasion afoot and he's not going "woe is me" like some emo kid.
I only got that impression during BVS which I'll never understand for making that creative decision since by the end of MoS, he's already accepted being Superman and the last shot of the movie is him smiling at the camera. I don't hate Goyer & Snyder like a lot of people do but as far as writing, going two steps back like that between the movies was really stupid.
It's my second favorite after Wonder Woman which storywise, I'd argue is similar to MoS in terms of plot but does it better and irons out the kinks people didn't like.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 19, 2018 20:21:59 GMT
Nah, I still really like it myself. There is a lot to admire. The childhood flashbacks, the score, Michael Shannon as Zod, Russell Crowe as Jor-El, the battle scenes, and Cavill really isn't that mopey. Is he serious yeah but there's an alien invasion afoot and he's not going "woe is me" like some emo kid.
I only got that impression during BVS which I'll never understand for making that creative decision since by the end of MoS, he's already accepted being Superman and the last shot of the movie is him smiling at the camera. I don't hate Goyer & Snyder like a lot of people do but as far as writing, going two steps back like that between the movies was really stupid.
MoS was Clark accepting the legacy of his two fathers by assuming his two identities: of reporter Kent and of the god-like Superman; thereby finding himself. BvS was in part Rocky III, part Jesus arc. It's about Supes being on top and a god-like superbeing, but him finally realizing that he is still vulnerable: First he is cocky, self assured and negligent as shown in the desert scene, bathtub scene or all the montages where they celebrate him as a pompous god. But then in comes his vulnerability and downfall due to his oversights - in the desert, the senate bombing, his mothers abduction etc - it's spelled out in the dialogue and scenes. He even seeks the advise of his dead Earth-father, who died for his conviction - in the end Supes is beaten up by Batman and finally killed as a self sacrifice  It entails a lot of F Nietzsche's Übermensch (superman) philosophy combined with his "God is dead" concept that ties into it. |
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Post by scabab on Dec 19, 2018 20:34:30 GMT
Most would say Wonder Woman and I wouldn't argue against it but I also think Man of Steel is still the best one and the best Superman movie.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Dec 19, 2018 21:20:45 GMT
I was a passionate defender of MoS back in the pre-BvS days. Those were simpler times...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 23:24:22 GMT
I enjoyed MoS, and can accept the more distrustful conflicted Clark, but it's not my favorite version of the character. I don't like how the storyteller changed Jonathan Kent to make him so contrary to the man he had always been portrayed to be to put some greater distrust of man into Clark for the sake of this writer's version of the story. I really have come to appreciate the Glenn Ford version of Jonathan's last talk with Clark.
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Post by Skaathar on Dec 20, 2018 1:33:23 GMT
Nah. MOS wasn't that bad but it still had a very dry lead character, sluggish pacing issues, and some pretty stupid scenes (like the tornadocide). Even if I turned a blind eye to how much more likeable Gadot's Wonder Woman is to Cavill's Superman, MOS still had a lot more issues than WW.
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Post by NormanClature on Dec 20, 2018 1:46:25 GMT
Nah. MOS wasn't that bad but it still had a very dry lead character, sluggish pacing issues, and some pretty stupid scenes (like the tornadocide). Even if I turned a blind eye to how much more likeable Gadot's Wonder Woman is to Cavill's Superman, MOS still had a lot more issues than WW. The pain of watching MoS dulls with time. It's easy to find yourself asking, "was MoS really that bad," after watching some of the more recent DCU misfires. Always remember - YES! It really was THAT BAD!  |
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Post by DSDSquared on Dec 20, 2018 13:58:17 GMT
Zod was just a much better actor and villain than anyone in Wonder Woman. I REALLY like Gadot as Wonder Woman. They absolutely nailed that casting. Still, Man of Steel just seems to have more going for it, to me. I honestly still really enjoy it. I would take it over many other super hero films:
BvS
Suicide Squad
Thor 2
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Justice League Age of Ultron
and many more.
I do not think it is on the level of the classics, but it is still very well done. Crowe was also perfect as Jor-El. |
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Post by northernlad on Dec 20, 2018 14:50:26 GMT
I was a passionate defender of MoS back in the pre-BvS days. Those were simpler times... Me too! I defended that movie until the end. Now I see it isn't the best movie around, but it is a damned good Superman movie if you ask me. |
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 20, 2018 20:05:17 GMT
It's not the best of the current crop. But it's my favorite Superman film (with apologies to Mr. Donner).
And in Zod it has one of the best villains. That's how you do it: a relatable fanatic with a vulnerable human face is a lot more frightening and impressive than all your weightless CGI-monstrosities put together.
This film was not made for little kids. And it took itself seriously. I appreciate that.
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Post by James on Dec 21, 2018 1:34:28 GMT
Agreed. Also the complaints about Metropolis being practically obliterated made no sense to me. These two guys (with the addition of two sidekicks on the antagonist side) are equally as powerful and being angry at each other is gonna make them cause at least a bit of damage, if not a lot. Look at blockbusters nowadays, including superheroes. The Avengers weren’t able to take care of New York the best possible way, but they got the job done. Same with here.
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Post by hobowar on Dec 21, 2018 7:20:21 GMT
Zack Snyder and David Goyer should have permanently banned from filmmaking after Man of Steel.
Clark: What was I suppose to do, just let them die?
Jonathan Kent: Maybe
This combined with the neck snap made Man of Steel easily the worst movie of 2013.
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on Dec 21, 2018 9:26:16 GMT
MOS is the best Superman movie ever made, period.
(Note: I was 16 in 1978, when the Chris Reeves movie came out. What a disappointment that was... and still is.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 20:09:04 GMT
Zack Snyder and David Goyer should have permanently banned from filmmaking after Man of Steel. Clark: What was I suppose to do, just let them die? Jonathan Kent: Maybe This combined with the neck snap made Man of Steel easily the worst movie of 2013. I have no issue personally with the neck snap, I feel it was conveyed he had no other choice But yes, Jonathan Kent and his influence on Clark, a wrong idea IMHO. I know of no other characterization of the man so discouraging of Clark helping his fellow beings, and causing his son to be conflicted in his purpose. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 21, 2018 22:04:45 GMT
Snyder came very close to creating a Superman for a new generation of fans. If not for a few perplexing narrative decisions, he would have succeeded.
People seem to have softened on the neck slap since the initial release of the film. I never had a problem with the act or method of killing personally. I'd always felt it was the circumstances of the killing that undercut the character.
Superman was made to act out of desperation. He was written into a corner in which he had no options.
For the true Superman, there is always another way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 8:21:28 GMT
MoS is a movie where, for every good thing, there's an equally off-putting one.
Putting Superman in a modern, more realistic world - okay, cool. Making Clark a brooding Bruce Wayne wannabe - not cool. Showing two Kryptonians fight unrestrained at full power - cool. Superman's indifference to collateral damage and saving lives - not cool. Zod's motivation and Shannon's performance - cool. Zod's unexplained need to terraform Earth instead of literally any other planet - not cool.
To me, WW is head and shoulders above the rest. The lead is flawed but inspirational and likable. The romance works. It's serious without being grimdark. I didn't even mind Ares.
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Post by leesilm on Jan 21, 2019 2:36:52 GMT
the best DCEU film. I know most would say Wonder Woman and I would have too easily when it first came out, but after tons of rewatches, I just find MOS more entertaining. I know it is not perfect, but the opening in Krypton was very well done and Cavill played a very good Superman IMO. I also love WW, but I find that I have to be in the right mood to re-watch, plus I tend to leave the room for snacks during certain scenes to avoid seeing them. It is a really good movie, just some of the losses she endures aren't things you want to see over and over. MoS, I only find a reason to be gone when Jonathan dies. Otherwise, I sit through the whole movie and really enjoy it. I love what Snyder did with the timeline, the flashbacks feel more natural and are more interesting, than where you get a 20min short-film telling the back story, then you get an hour of convincing the hero to be heroic, then you get a battle, then fallout with a note to set up the next movie. MoS messed with that framework, but in a way that was really interesting. I'd compare it (yes, of all things) to the newer JANE EYRE, that actually starts when Jane's already left Thornfield and she tells you bits and pieces as she goes through her new life with St.John & co., until she's compelled back to Thornfield/Mr.Rochester. |
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Post by miike80 on Jan 21, 2019 7:41:54 GMT
It's up there with WonderWoman and BVS extended cut for me. Don't really care about all the rest
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Jan 21, 2019 9:18:39 GMT
Agreed. Also the complaints about Metropolis being practically obliterated made no sense to me. These two guys (with the addition of two sidekicks on the antagonist side) are equally as powerful and being angry at each other is gonna make them cause at least a bit of damage, if not a lot. Look at blockbusters nowadays, including superheroes. The Avengers weren’t able to take care of New York the best possible way, but they got the job done. Same with here. Those complaints made no sense to me either! Clark wasn't even technically Superman yet. He was a young inexperienced god facing off against three of his own kind, who not only have his powerset, but are his elders AND trained Kryptonian soldiers. The idea that he could take that on alone without significant consequences is absolutely unrealistic. OT: It's the same reason I don't get some of the SM:HC criticisms about Iron Man always having to come "save" Peter. He was a teenage superhero trying to prove himself. Of course he was going to make mistakes! |
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