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Post by sdm3 on Dec 21, 2018 4:20:21 GMT
Inspired by Cameron Jordan's comments that he wouldn't include Ben in the top 5, putting Eli ahead of him.
For me:
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Philip Rivers
Rivers just edges Roethlisberger for me. Ben has the Super Bowl wins, but was largely carried by Cowher's roster in 2005. He did well in 2008 but had the good fortune of playing with an awesome defense in an AFC bracket without Brady due to injury. Rivers had some really good rosters for his younger years but never really had the coaching or the defenses that Ben played with. Rivers played his only AFC title game through a serious injury. His rosters had been terrible throughout the middle of this decade but he was still consistently great. He's enjoying arguably his best season ever and is in serious contention for MVP. Has Ben ever been in the league MVP conversation?
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 21, 2018 6:42:26 GMT
Jordan is an idiot if he thinks Roethlisberger isn't a Hall of Famer. Among his accomplishments:
* never played on a losing team
* 7.9 yards per pass attempt. The only players in NFL history who are at 8.0 or higher: Otto Graham, Sid Luckman, Norm Van Brocklin, and Steve Young.
* 10th all-time in passing yards per game (259.5)
* 7th all time in completions
* 6th all time in passing yards
* 7th all time in passing touchdowns
* 6th all time in 4th quarter comebacks (only behind P Manning, Brady, Unitas, Brees, Marino).
* 7th all time in wins
* 10th in all-time winning percentage for a QB
So Roethlisberger has a career winning percentage of .670.
Drew Brees's winning percentage is .574. That's lower than Joe Flacco, Tony Romo, Steve McNair, Jake Delhomme, Brad Johnson, and Alex Smith.
Phillip Rivers's winning percentage is .546. That's lower than Andy Dalton and Cam Newton.
Eli Manning's winning percentage is .522. That's lower than Bobby Hebert, Neil O'Donnell, and Trent Dilfer.
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Post by Marv on Dec 21, 2018 10:36:23 GMT
1. Peyton
2. Brady
3. Brees
...I actually think there’s a nice gap here. Those 3 are clearly best three.
4. Roethlisberger
5. Rodgers
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Post by DSDSquared on Dec 21, 2018 12:59:20 GMT
1. Peyton 2. Brady 3. Brees ...I actually think there’s a nice gap here. Those 3 are clearly best three. 4. Roethlisberger 5. Rodgers Saying that Ben was ever better than Rodgers is ridiculous. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 13:25:00 GMT
Saying Roetisberger is not a HOFer is ridiculous. Saying that Roethlisberger is not top 5 in his generation is not too crazy of an argument. I would put him #5 behind Brady Manning Brees and Rodgers. There are legitimate arguments to be made that Rivers or Eli belong in that spot.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 13:28:40 GMT
1. Peyton 2. Brady 3. Brees ...I actually think there’s a nice gap here. Those 3 are clearly best three. 4. Roethlisberger 5. Rodgers Saying that Ben was ever better than Rodgers is ridiculous. Talent wise and when both are on the field I agree but you can make an arguement that Roethlisberger has had the better career to date. |
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Post by Marv on Dec 21, 2018 13:31:00 GMT
1. Peyton 2. Brady 3. Brees ...I actually think there’s a nice gap here. Those 3 are clearly best three. 4. Roethlisberger 5. Rodgers Saying that Ben was ever better than Rodgers is ridiculous. Why? |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Dec 21, 2018 13:49:48 GMT
Is it possible that Rodgers is a tad overrated? I’m not saying he’s Andy Dalton, but for someone supposedly as great as he is, surely he should have at least gotten to more than one Super Bowl. I know he’s had a bumpkin as a coach for a lot of years but still. Of the modern QBs Brady, Peyton, and *Brees are all better, and Roethlisberger is just as good with a different skill set.
*I know Brees has so far gotten to only one super bowl, but anyone who doesn’t think Brees is by far the better QB is clearly a victim of the opioid crisis.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 21, 2018 14:21:31 GMT
I think I agree with sdm's list the most. You really have to start nitpicking when you try to separate the best from the best. Rodgers can make all the throws but he can be reckless at times; I also feel his legend is built heavily on hail marys which are more about luck than anything else. (Anyone can throw the ball into the vicinity of the end zone, it's up to heady receivers, bad defense and pure chance that make a hail mary successful.)
On the other hand, Rodgers is in Green Bay, Wisconsin while Peyton Manning and Brees played in domes most of their careers (Brees other stint was in San Diego). Which environment do you think is more conducive to good QB play? Roethlisberger had the advantage of a solid organization around him throughout his entire career, which is more than Rodgers can say. Rivers also plays in San Diego (now LA) with one of the all time great TEs as a safety net, and he hasn't won anything (which doesn't necessarily prove anything in this argument, but it should be noted).
Again I have to agree with sdm that Rivers edges out Big Ben because I think Rivers would have won the titles Roethlisberger won had he been in Pittsburgh, while Big Ben wouldn't have Rivers's numbers in San Diego along with zero rings in that scenario.
The top two have to be Brady and Peyton. Manning throws a better deep ball, a tighter spiral; he's a better pure passer. But Brady is the better QB. He makes better decisions and rises to the challenge in big moments more consistently than Manning ever did. Manning had teams literally built around him while Brady plays for a franchise that refuses to pay their best players (despite Brady constantly taking pay cuts to help the cap) and is notoriously futile in the draft. Both guys made everyone they played with better, but Brady had entire offenses reconfigured in the offseason countless times and kept going to the conference championship game and the Super Bowl. He won multiple Super Bowls in two different decades, I don't know what else there is to say.
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 21, 2018 14:25:16 GMT
Brees is the better quarterback - - he's also played in San Diego and a dome for his whole career. Brees will play 10 games indoors this year.
Rodgers has some numbers which are awfully suspicious. Before this year, Rodgers was 0-35 when losing by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter to teams that had winning records.
Outside of Brady, every quarterback playing today has blemishes on the resume.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 21, 2018 14:39:52 GMT
Brees is the better quarterback - - he's also played in San Diego and a dome for his whole career. Brees will play 10 games indoors this year. Rodgers has some numbers which are awfully suspicious. Before this year, Rodgers was 0-35 when losing by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter to teams that had winning records. Outside of Brady, every quarterback playing today has blemishes on the resume. I'm convinced the hail marys are what inexplicably propelled Rodgers into the GOAT conversation. He's a great player but to your point he has some dubious numbers that pop up without much digging. |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Dec 21, 2018 14:48:05 GMT
Brees is the better quarterback - - he's also played in San Diego and a dome for his whole career. Brees will play 10 games indoors this year. Rodgers has some numbers which are awfully suspicious. Before this year, Rodgers was 0-35 when losing by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter to teams that had winning records. Outside of Brady, every quarterback playing today has blemishes on the resume. Outside of the Denver years Manning played half his games indoors. Brady has played in a division where the other three teams have mailed it in for about 20 years. Rodgers had Corky from Life Goes On as his head coach. Rivers couldn’t stop knocking up his wife for 5 whole minutes. And had terrible coaches, coordinators, and not so great teams put around him outside of LT. Roethlisberger has Tomlin, who doesn’t exactly engender comparisons to Bill Walsh. They all have blemishes, even Brady. |
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Post by DSDSquared on Dec 21, 2018 14:59:41 GMT
In all fairness, Rodgers has only had a top ten defense once in his entire career and that was the year he won it all. Mike McCarthy was one of the worst coaches in the league. I really believe that. Rodgers has better per game numbers in every category than even Brady. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Ben is in the top five of this generation. I am not dogging him, but he had the worst stats ever for a Super Bowl winning QB against Seattle. They just had a great team. Winning is a team thing. I am so sick of it always being put on just the QB. From a pure talent standpoint, Manning, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers are all a step ahead of everyone else. My list:
Brady
Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Ben
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 21, 2018 16:13:23 GMT
Brees is the better quarterback - - he's also played in San Diego and a dome for his whole career. Brees will play 10 games indoors this year. Rodgers has some numbers which are awfully suspicious. Before this year, Rodgers was 0-35 when losing by more than 1 point in the 4th quarter to teams that had winning records. Outside of Brady, every quarterback playing today has blemishes on the resume. Outside of the Denver years Manning played half his games indoors.
Brady has played in a division where the other three teams have mailed it in for about 20 years. Rodgers had Corky from Life Goes On as his head coach. Rivers couldn’t stop knocking up his wife for 5 whole minutes. And had terrible coaches, coordinators, and not so great teams put around him outside of LT. Roethlisberger has Tomlin, who doesn’t exactly engender comparisons to Bill Walsh. They all have blemishes, even Brady. To be fair, the Pats inexplicably seem to lose games to their terrible division rivals every year. And I think those teams have often mailed it in because they know they can't beat the Pats; or made wild organization decisions thinking that's what it'll take to do so. But yeah at the end of the day, it helps knowing you can practically sleepwalk to your way to a division crown every year. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 21, 2018 17:24:30 GMT
Outside of Brady, every quarterback playing today has blemishes on the resume. Losing a Super Bowl to a double-digit underdog when you're 18*-0 is a huge blemish on the resume. It's the highest level of underachievement! |
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 21, 2018 17:26:37 GMT
The top 3 QBs since 2004 are:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Drew Brees
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Post by shadyvsesham on Dec 21, 2018 17:33:06 GMT
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Big Ben
5. Aaron Rodgers
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Post by DSDSquared on Dec 21, 2018 17:59:28 GMT
The top 3 QBs since 2004 are: 1. Peyton Manning 2. Aaron Rodgers 3. Drew Brees Come on man. I know you are a hater, but ask yourself if you really believe this. There is no way that Brady can't be at the top of the list. I am not a Brady fan. I actually think Rodgers is the more talented QB, but I would never rank Rodgers ahead of Brady because I can't. Brady has just accomplished too much. |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Dec 21, 2018 18:03:17 GMT
The top 3 QBs since 2004 are: 1. Peyton Manning 2. Aaron Rodgers 3. Drew Brees Come on man. I know you are a hater, but ask yourself if you really believe this. There is no way that Brady can't be at the top of the list. I am not a Brady fan. I actually think Rodgers is the more talented QB, but I would never rank Rodgers ahead of Brady because I can't. Brady has just accomplished too much. Look! DC-Fan caught another fish! It’s a biggun! |
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Post by DC-Fan on Dec 21, 2018 18:20:32 GMT
The top 3 QBs since 2004 are: 1. Peyton Manning 2. Aaron Rodgers 3. Drew Brees Come on man. I know you are a hater, but ask yourself if you really believe this. There is no way that Brady can't be at the top of the list. I am not a Brady fan. I actually think Rodgers is the more talented QB, but I would never rank Rodgers ahead of Brady because I can't. Brady has just accomplished too much. I rank Brady below those other 3 because most of what Brady has accomplished has been by cheating and fraudulent means. It's quite simple, but you Brady fanboys don't seem to understand so I'll try to explain it more simply for you. Would Barry Bonds have still hit 500+ home runs and be a great player without steroids? Yes, he would. But would Barry Bonds have joined Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth in the 700+ home run club without steroids? Probably not. It's steroids that turned Bonds from a 500+, maybe 600+ home run hitter into only the 3rd 700+ home run hitter in MLB history. Same with Shady Brady. Without cheating, Shady Brady is still a good QB. But without cheating, Shady Brady isn't close to being as great as Joe Montana or Peyton Manning or many of the other all-time great QBs. It's cheating that helped Shady Brady reach the levels of Montana and Manning and many other great QBs. Now you Brady fanboys like sucking Brady's dick so much that you're willing to give him a free pass for all that cheating, but I don't give free passes to athletes who cheat. I rooted for Ben Johnson to win the 100-meter sprint at the 1988 Olympics. But after he won, it was discovered that he cheated and was nothing more than a fraud, just like Shady Brady. I don't give a free pass to Ben Johnson or other cheaters like Lance Armstrong and Rosie Ruiz. And I also don't give a free pass to Shady Brady, the biggest cheater and fraud in NFL history. And you Brady fanboys shouldn't blame me for Brady getting caught cheating. You should blame Shady Brady for choosing to take a shortcut and cheat rather than try to earn his accomplishments and championships like many others have done. |
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