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Post by ant-mac on Dec 26, 2018 5:42:09 GMT
in my eyes, yes. I enjoyed both Horrible Bosses, I liked Margin Call, and I really liked Elvis vs Nixon. A lot of people liked Baby Driver too, I didnt. Plus he also produced Captain Phillips which I thought was a great movie. He is undoubtedly very talented, there is no reason he should be deprived of the ability to make a living doing what he is good at. EVEN IF he turns out to be a criminal. Given he gets his punishment and shows remorse. I hate when society has double standards and on one hand will fight for second chances for all sorts of offenders, or accept public figures who have committed violent or systemic crimes, on the other hand will destroy entire lives and livelihoods of people before the trial is even on. People who were at best charged with something. And more often than not didnt even use physical violence. Why is Tim Allen, the drug dealer who spent 2 years in jail a beloved tv personality? What about Will Smith who violently beat up/blinded someone? Marc Wahlberg, the attempted murderer? JayZ with his history of violence and stabbing people? Dany Trejo, who spent 11 years in jail? and the list could go on. If these men are allowed to successfully work in the show business I dont see any reason why Kevin Spacey shouldn't. Whats the difference? Spacey has sexual allegations involving a minor and while it could be considered a double standard, that is a no go zone in the eyes of most people. Most of the simpleton herd will look for anything though to keep someone down, due to their own insecurities and petty jealousies.
I am not big of this show remorse attitude that is pushed by the establishment. No-one has the right to force onto someone, how they should feel about something and how they should express it. We can't possibly know what others are feeling, even if we make misinformed judgements about what we think they may be feeling. Most people do have a conscience about things that they do that are considered questionable, only a narcissistic sociopath or psychopath wouldn't. I don't see Spacey as being either of these. He perhaps felt a bit entitled, but even the main allegation regrading this 14yr old at the time, Spacey wasn't even on the radar himself then. If he wasn't famous, who would give a rats.
Personally, I think if he's tried and found guilty of a crime, then he should pay the appropriate penalty.
However, once he has paid his due to society, I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to return to his previous profession.
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Post by Nora on Dec 26, 2018 5:48:47 GMT
ant-mac thats exactly how i see it too. and thats how criminal law and criminal justice works, well in theory it should.
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Post by ant-mac on Dec 26, 2018 6:03:38 GMT
ant-mac thats exactly how i see it too. and thats how criminal law and criminal justice works, well in theory it should. Well, what's the point of having prisons if you're never going to forgive someone who has committed a crime or carried out some sort of wrong-doing?
If the person's going to be made to suffer, even after they've repaid their debt to society, then you might as well just take them out the back of the courthouse once they've been found guilty and shoot them.
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Post by Caesar Roberto on Dec 26, 2018 6:05:43 GMT
Who cares? Has that creep even done anything of note since Moon? in my eyes, yes. I enjoyed both Horrible Bosses, I liked Margin Call, and I really liked Elvis vs Nixon. A lot of people liked Baby Driver too, I didnt. Oh I forgot about Horrible Bosses. Yeah that movie was good. 👍 Haven't seen those others. That was a good movie but being one of the many producers doesn't mean too much. I wouldn't say very talented, that's a bit farfetched, but yes he is talented. His performance in American Beauty was really good. Society is fugged up. Some people who make mistakes are punished while others who commit far worse crimes are rewarded. It doesn't make sense. As for whether he should be allowed to act again I don't know, as I haven't been following his case so I don't know what exactly he was alleged of doing, or if what he was alleged to have done actually happened. I just know it was something to do with "rape" and some teenaged boy. But our stupid society often uses the word "rape" incorrectly. If it was rape rape, as in he forcefully raped the kid without consent, then he is a violent criminal should be locked up and not allowed to act (in big notable movies) any more. If it was just "statutory rape", where the kid gave consent, then that is nowhere near as bad the the first kind of "rape" and he should absolutely be allowed back to act (in big notable movies). I say big notable movies because I don't want to say Hollywood. Fugg Hollywood. I'm sure it's comprised of scum far worse than Spacey. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 26, 2018 8:25:42 GMT
Spacey has sexual allegations involving a minor and while it could be considered a double standard, that is a no go zone in the eyes of most people.e radar himself then. If he wasn't famous, who would give a rats. yes, pedophilia is a no go zone, i get that. but the entire allegation has a completely different context. no need to reopen the debate here. i know what you mean. now that i have had the time to think about the video, watch it a few more times and reflect on it, i like it even more. i am glad someone stood up to the mob mentality if he thinks he is innocent. am i hoping her will be cleared of the charges and will act again? yes. would i have a problem watching him in movies even if he did do it and was found guilty? no. do i know its not a popular opinion? yes. but thats the way it is right now. I don't think pedophilia is on the cards regarding any legal accusations. Even that 14yr old from over 30yrs ago isn't technically considered pedophilia.
The other case that I believe is coming up is because he groped an 18yr old guy. So what is the fuss here? The 18yr old is an adult and lied apparently about his age and the US 21yr is a stupid legal drinking age. The mother of the MAN has her own agenda and the news report it as a teenager, as though he wasn't of legal consenting age. What a load of f<>king crock! This is a game for the lawyers to play now, so they can get fat of Spacey and to pander to the redhot pitchfork carrying herd. They are going to make a crime out of something that is negligible.
Sounds to me his hag mother is making this out to be about straight vicitmization at the hands of a degenerate homosexual. I wonder if it was a female that had done the same thing, if she would be making a fuss out of it.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 26, 2018 8:33:19 GMT
Spacey has sexual allegations involving a minor and while it could be considered a double standard, that is a no go zone in the eyes of most people. Most of the simpleton herd will look for anything though to keep someone down, due to their own insecurities and petty jealousies.
I am not big of this show remorse attitude that is pushed by the establishment. No-one has the right to force onto someone, how they should feel about something and how they should express it. We can't possibly know what others are feeling, even if we make misinformed judgements about what we think they may be feeling. Most people do have a conscience about things that they do that are considered questionable, only a narcissistic sociopath or psychopath wouldn't. I don't see Spacey as being either of these. He perhaps felt a bit entitled, but even the main allegation regrading this 14yr old at the time, Spacey wasn't even on the radar himself then. If he wasn't famous, who would give a rats.
Personally, I think if he's tried and found guilty of a crime, then he should pay the appropriate penalty.
However, once he has paid his due to society, I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to return to his previous profession.
What crime is he guilty of though and what is an appropriate penalty? This tends to differ from case to case, court to court, land to land.
There is a statue of limitations in the US and he is not up on charges for sexual misconduct with a 14yr old, only an 18yr old from what I have researched at present.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 26, 2018 8:49:10 GMT
Nora , you have linked this thread, not the director's commentary.  oh thank you. this is the commentary Yes, the clip confirms that it is a recent video instigated by Spacey.
The commentary is nothing special, he just gives his resume and some technical details. Of interest, is what you have already mentioned, about him claiming his gf left him when she found it was Spacey he was filming. Another devil's advocate with a red hot pitchfork. I guess he is already guilty to the eyes of many, even before they know or understand any truths.  |
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Post by ant-mac on Dec 26, 2018 9:26:31 GMT
Personally, I think if he's tried and found guilty of a crime, then he should pay the appropriate penalty.
However, once he has paid his due to society, I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to return to his previous profession.
What crime is he guilty of though and what is an appropriate penalty? This tends to differ from case to case, court to court, land to land.
There is a statue of limitations in the US and he is not up on charges for sexual misconduct with a 14yr old, only an 18yr old from what I have researched at present.
1. I'm sure we'll find out in due course.
2. Don't ask me. I haven't been following this story that closely.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 26, 2018 10:07:44 GMT
What crime is he guilty of though and what is an appropriate penalty? This tends to differ from case to case, court to court, land to land.
There is a statue of limitations in the US and he is not up on charges for sexual misconduct with a 14yr old, only an 18yr old from what I have researched at present.
1. I'm sure we'll find out in due course.
2. Don't ask me. I haven't been following this story that closely.
We certainly will, after all the bulls<>t games have been played. This "me-too" thing is more about a witch hunt than anything and the irony is, it is instigated largely by witches. |
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Post by ant-mac on Dec 26, 2018 10:56:25 GMT
1. I'm sure we'll find out in due course.
2. Don't ask me. I haven't been following this story that closely.
We certainly will, after all the bulls<>t games have been played. This "me-too" thing is more about a witch hunt than anything and the irony is, it is instigated largely by witches. The MeToo movement is nothing like a witch hunt. And it's instigated by Humans. However, I do believe it needs to be conducted in a more rational and reasonable manner, that is more in keeping with the practices of the modern type of justice system that is present in many advanced countries.
A real witch hunt - which can still occur even in modern times - can involve torture that can leave permanent physical and psychological marks and various forms of execution that are both abhorrent and horrific. And I think witchcraft is no better or worse than many other religious or supernatural beliefs.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 26, 2018 12:06:56 GMT
We certainly will, after all the bulls<>t games have been played. This "me-too" thing is more about a witch hunt than anything and the irony is, it is instigated largely by witches. The MeToo movement is nothing like a witch hunt. And it's instigated by Humans. However, I do believe it needs to be conducted in a more rational and reasonable manner, that is more in keeping with the practices of the modern type of justice system that is present in many advanced countries.
A real witch hunt - which can still occur even in modern times - can involve torture that can leave permanent physical and psychological marks and various forms of execution that are both abhorrent and horrific. And I think witchcraft is no better or worse than many other religious or supernatural beliefs. You are perhaps being too literal with the meaning of witchunt. It is only a metaphor and witches are\were human too and humans instigated their torture and murder so I am not so clear on what your point is. And the 'me too' movement is in keeping in practice with the modern type of justice system, which is victim mentality which in turn the justice system feeds off and for profit mongering for lawyers and for those high up in the judicial system to justify their titles, positions and incomes and feel superior over the plebs.
Too many people give their own power away to those that they feel are the powers that be. There is nothing justice worthy about the legal\justice system and it is designed to keep the status quo intact. The care and concern of legal justice is also phony to the max, hypocritical and full of double standards. |
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Post by ant-mac on Dec 26, 2018 12:19:12 GMT
The MeToo movement is nothing like a witch hunt. And it's instigated by Humans. However, I do believe it needs to be conducted in a more rational and reasonable manner, that is more in keeping with the practices of the modern type of justice system that is present in many advanced countries.
A real witch hunt - which can still occur even in modern times - can involve torture that can leave permanent physical and psychological marks and various forms of execution that are both abhorrent and horrific. And I think witchcraft is no better or worse than many other religious or supernatural beliefs. You are perhaps being too literal with the meaning of witchunt. It is only a metaphor and witches are\were human too and humans instigated their torture and murder so I am not so clear on what your point is. And the 'me too' movement in keeping in practice with the modern type of justice system, which is the victim mentality which the justice system feeds off and for profit mongering for lawyers and for those high up in the judicial system to justify their titles, positions and incomes and feel superior over the plebs.
Too many people give their own power away to those that they feel are the powers that be. There is nothing justice worthy about the legal\justice system and it is designed to keep the status quo intact. The care and concern of legal justice is also phony to the max. 1. No, I'm not being too literal and it's not simply a metaphor. It's a practise that still takes place in certain parts of the world and adversely affects many people who live in those areas.
2. And what you refer to is not a modern type of justice system. It has to be designed, developed and deployed by an appropriate authority, such as a federal, state or local government body, in conjunction with legal experts.
3. I don't think for a moment it's perfect, but until a better designed system is created, it's the only one we've got. And what makes you think people have a choice as to whether or not they concede to the authorities? If you're correct about the ultimate objectives of the modern legal system, surely it makes no difference?
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 26, 2018 12:28:59 GMT
You are perhaps being too literal with the meaning of witchunt. It is only a metaphor and witches are\were human too and humans instigated their torture and murder so I am not so clear on what your point is. And the 'me too' movement in keeping in practice with the modern type of justice system, which is the victim mentality which the justice system feeds off and for profit mongering for lawyers and for those high up in the judicial system to justify their titles, positions and incomes and feel superior over the plebs.
Too many people give their own power away to those that they feel are the powers that be. There is nothing justice worthy about the legal\justice system and it is designed to keep the status quo intact. The care and concern of legal justice is also phony to the max. 1. No, I'm not being too literal and it's not simply a metaphor. It's a practise that still takes place in certain parts of the world and adversely affects many people who live in those areas.
2. And what you refer to is not a modern type of justice system. It has to be designed, developed and deployed by an appropriate authority, such as a federal, state or local government body, in conjunction with legal experts.
3. I don't think for a moment it's perfect, but until a better designed system is created, it's the only one we've got. And what makes you think people have a choice as to whether or not they concede to the authorities? If you're correct about the ultimate objectives of the modern legal system, surely it makes no difference? 1. So you are saying the 'me too' movement is not a witchunt against men? The term witchunt is a metaphor, dating back to the persecution of those that practiced witchcraft, by the so called justice system. It can then apply to persecution of any sect.
2. Which countries have this modern type of justice system you refer too and what is your definition of justice? To me, it is about fairness and equality and this doesn't even exist in the convoluted ones we have at the moment. Like I mentioned earlier it also differs from case, to courts to lands. Just because an authority is appropriated, doesn't mean it knows what it is doing, even if they like to label themselves as so-called experts.
3. yes, I agree, it is the only system we have, but it will start to perfect itself out, when it stops compartmentalizing and being disloyal and corrupt with its own authority and power. It is about quick fixes for societal issues and not getting to the root cause of them, or even wanting to get to the cause of it. It likes it the way it is. There is NO justice here, in spite of the illusion of what it represents to many.
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Post by ant-mac on Dec 26, 2018 14:25:07 GMT
1. No, I'm not being too literal and it's not simply a metaphor. It's a practise that still takes place in certain parts of the world and adversely affects many people who live in those areas.
2. And what you refer to is not a modern type of justice system. It has to be designed, developed and deployed by an appropriate authority, such as a federal, state or local government body, in conjunction with legal experts.
3. I don't think for a moment it's perfect, but until a better designed system is created, it's the only one we've got. And what makes you think people have a choice as to whether or not they concede to the authorities? If you're correct about the ultimate objectives of the modern legal system, surely it makes no difference? 1. So you are saying the 'me too' movement is not a witchunt against men? The term witchunt is a metaphor, dating back to the persecution of those that practiced witchcraft, by the so called justice system. It can then apply to persecution of any sect.
2. Which countries have this modern type of justice system you refer too and what is your definition of justice? To me, it is about fairness and equality and this doesn't even exist in the convoluted ones we have at the moment. Like I mentioned earlier it also differs from case, to courts to lands. Just because an authority is appropriated, doesn't mean it knows what it is doing, even if they like to label themselves as so-called experts.
3. yes, I agree, it is the only system we have, but it will start to perfect itself out, when it stops compartmentalizing and being disloyal and corrupt with its own authority and power. It is about quick fixes for societal issues and not getting to the root cause of them, or even wanting to get to the cause of it. It likes it the way it is. There is NO justice here, in spite of the illusion of what it represents to many.
1. I'm aware of the modern usage of the term, "witch hunt". I'm just saying that it's a vast exaggeration and over statement to describe the "MeToo" movement as one. Whatever persecution or suffering that proponents of it can bring to bear upon their targets - rightly or wrongly - pales into insignificance against what happened - and still happens - to the victims of an authentic witch hunt.
2. I certainly believe that the Scandinavian countries - and some other European nations - are at the forefront when it comes to best practises in a modern justice system. However, in general, when I speak of a modern justice system, I mean one that continues to be improved, overhauled and reshaped to reflect the best practises based upon the latest wisdom. They're in no way perfect, but they are still an improvement over what has gone before.
3. No justice system - even the most modern one - is perfect. All we can do is hope that it continues to strive for improvement, one step at a time. I doubt any justice system will ever be truly perfect, but they can always continue to strive to be better.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 27, 2018 1:44:41 GMT
ant-mac thats exactly how i see it too. and thats how criminal law and criminal justice works, well in theory it should. Actions speak louder than words and theory is all good and well, but if the practice is ignoble and disloyal, it only creates a conundrum of various contradictions and double standards. This has always been the case with criminal law. One also has to ask as well, who are the real criminals in this sphere at times? |
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Post by Ecstasy on Jan 6, 2019 18:09:42 GMT
He disappeared for a whole year and put out THIS?
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Post by Nora on Jan 6, 2019 18:27:31 GMT
He disappeared for a whole year and put out THIS? yep. just in time before his court hearing tomorrow. |
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Post by Nora on Jan 8, 2019 3:43:02 GMT
i would have allowed the request to keep all data ALL THE WAY leading up to NOW. six months two years ago? not enough. i bet most info about it between the alleged victim and his family and friends were exchanged more recently then that. oh well. we will see more in march. but the lawyer in me is getting restless watching this unfold.
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Post by Nora on Dec 24, 2019 19:28:33 GMT
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Post by Nora on Dec 24, 2019 19:29:50 GMT
And what do You think?
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