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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Jan 5, 2019 0:28:58 GMT
What do YOU think? Dunno. Still collating.
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Post by phludowin on Jan 5, 2019 14:53:10 GMT
I checked definitions of globalism, nationalism and religion, and came to the conclusion that globalism is not a religion. Nationalism probably isn't either, but it's less certain. Since this asymmetry between nationalism and globalism makes the question from the OP a loaded question, I didn't answer the poll. Sorry it took so long for me to reply to this, phludowin. If you'd like to explain how it's a loaded question when both of them motivate large groups of people to do things (sometimes awful things) that they wouldn't ordinarily do, I'm interested. The definitions of "religion" I got (mostly Wikipedia) say that there has to be a belief in something supernatural, spiritual or transcendent involved. This is not the case with globalism. Globalism concerns itself with economic relationships between economies; and in my opinion there's nothing spiritual or supernatural or transcendent about them. With nationalism it becomes more blurry. While there may be definitions of nations that there is more to a nation than just nationality to a state (e.g. language, core beliefs), most definitions of "nation" don't need anything supernatural, transcendent or spiritual. But some people see it differently; they say that there is such a thing as a common culture ("Leitkultur" in German); and in the case of theocracies some people mix nation and religion.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 5, 2019 16:29:23 GMT
I don’t think there’s any question that nationalism links to religion. Even if there is no particular deity involved the leader takes on that role and the actual reality of how strong or weak a nation is has nothing to do with it.
Globalism may be different since it’s about homogenized until it’s as mature a notion as nationalism.
Of course religion usually plays a role in that too.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 5, 2019 22:18:48 GMT
Sorry it took so long for me to reply to this, phludowin. If you'd like to explain how it's a loaded question when both of them motivate large groups of people to do things (sometimes awful things) that they wouldn't ordinarily do, I'm interested. The definitions of "religion" I got (mostly Wikipedia) say that there has to be a belief in something supernatural, spiritual or transcendent involved. This is not the case with globalism. Globalism concerns itself with economic relationships between economies; and in my opinion there's nothing spiritual or supernatural or transcendent about them. With nationalism it becomes more blurry. While there may be definitions of nations that there is more to a nation than just nationality to a state (e.g. language, core beliefs), most definitions of "nation" don't need anything supernatural, transcendent or spiritual. But some people see it differently; they say that there is such a thing as a common culture ("Leitkultur" in German); and in the case of theocracies some people mix nation and religion. So....nothing transcendent is involved with the idea of righting the world's wrongs and making everyone equal? Got it.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 5, 2019 22:22:28 GMT
I don’t think there’s any question that nationalism links to religion. Even if there is no particular deity involved the leader takes on that role and the actual reality of how strong or weak a nation is has nothing to do with it. Globalism may be different since it’s about homogenized until it’s as mature a notion as nationalism. Of course religion usually plays a role in that too. Yes. Religion plays more of a role in society than many of the nonbelievers on this board would like to admit.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 5, 2019 23:15:21 GMT
"Globalism" can mean anything from the existence of free trade between nations to a nefarious conspiracy by the elites to grab our guns, create a one world government and enslave the population or something. I don't know if globalism is a religion but there are a lot of religious nuts who believe globalist conspiracy theories and buy supplements and water purifiers from Alex Jones. For the purposes of this thread, it means the retarded idea that the world should be placed under one government and national sovereignty should be done away with. Hope that helps.
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Post by goz on Jan 5, 2019 23:27:59 GMT
"Globalism" can mean anything from the existence of free trade between nations to a nefarious conspiracy by the elites to grab our guns, create a one world government and enslave the population or something. I don't know if globalism is a religion but there are a lot of religious nuts who believe globalist conspiracy theories and buy supplements and water purifiers from Alex Jones. For the purposes of this thread, it means the retarded idea that the world should be placed under one government and national sovereignty should be done away with. Hope that helps. No, it doesn't. I hope that helps.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 5, 2019 23:37:35 GMT
For the purposes of this thread, it means the retarded idea that the world should be placed under one government and national sovereignty should be done away with. Hope that helps. No, it doesn't. I hope that helps. Stuff it, goz. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even vote in the poll that I was nice enough to provide.
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 5, 2019 23:44:34 GMT
"Globalism" can mean anything from the existence of free trade between nations to a nefarious conspiracy by the elites to grab our guns, create a one world government and enslave the population or something. I don't know if globalism is a religion but there are a lot of religious nuts who believe globalist conspiracy theories and buy supplements and water purifiers from Alex Jones.I I agree that some of the meanings associated with globalism are born totally out of misconception. The misconception is sometimes prevalent in both the right and the left wing.
I had started this thread here:
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Post by goz on Jan 5, 2019 23:48:32 GMT
No, it doesn't. I hope that helps. Stuff it, goz. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even vote in the poll that I was nice enough to provide. "Quelle surprise.". I voted no. DUH! "Globalism refers to various systems with scope beyond the merely international. It is used by political scientists, such as Joseph Nye, to describe "attempts to understand all the inter-connections of the modern world — and to highlight patterns that underlie them." While primarily associated with world-systems, it can be used to describe other global trends. The term is also used by detractors of globalization such as populist movements." Ever since man started discovering the world, colonising it, migration, trade and international interaction, historically there has been globalism. More recently with technological advances it has become the norm. One could argue that should the world wish to solve some of the problems civilisation has caused such as global warming and climate change, extinction of species, pollution and degradation of the planet, that globalism is essential. To do this, no-one is suggesting a one world government, just co-operation and a level of working towards a common goal when they mention globalism. Conspiracy theorists like your self, and idiots like Trump tend to exaggerate and scaremonger, in a MOST unhelpful manner.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jan 5, 2019 23:55:51 GMT
I don’t think there’s any question that nationalism links to religion. Even if there is no particular deity involved the leader takes on that role and the actual reality of how strong or weak a nation is has nothing to do with it. Globalism may be different since it’s about homogenized until it’s as mature a notion as nationalism. Of course religion usually plays a role in that too. Yes. Religion plays more of a role in society than many of the nonbelievers on this board would like to admit. i think national identity plays a big role in keeping people in line with the country’s ideology. A nation can talk a lot of people into anything with or without God. Religion can’t even stop people from lying for no reason.
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Post by phludowin on Jan 6, 2019 0:12:45 GMT
So....nothing transcendent is involved with the idea of righting the world's wrongs and making everyone equal? Correct. Good.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 6, 2019 0:29:11 GMT
Stuff it, goz. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even vote in the poll that I was nice enough to provide. "Quelle surprise.". I voted no. DUH! "Globalism refers to various systems with scope beyond the merely international. It is used by political scientists, such as Joseph Nye, to describe "attempts to understand all the inter-connections of the modern world — and to highlight patterns that underlie them." While primarily associated with world-systems, it can be used to describe other global trends. The term is also used by detractors of globalization such as populist movements." Ever since man started discovering the world, colonising it, migration, trade and international interaction, historically there has been globalism. More recently with technological advances it has become the norm. One could argue that should the world wish to solve some of the problems civilisation has caused such as global warming and climate change, extinction of species, pollution and degradation of the planet, that globalism is essential. To do this, no-one is suggesting a one world government, just co-operation and a level of working towards a common goal when they mention globalism. Conspiracy theorists like your self, and idiots like Trump tend to exaggerate and scaremonger, in a MOST unhelpful manner. Trump is working for the Globalists. They own him, body and soul. The best way to win is to own both sides.
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Post by goz on Jan 6, 2019 0:56:18 GMT
"Quelle surprise.". I voted no. DUH! "Globalism refers to various systems with scope beyond the merely international. It is used by political scientists, such as Joseph Nye, to describe "attempts to understand all the inter-connections of the modern world — and to highlight patterns that underlie them." While primarily associated with world-systems, it can be used to describe other global trends. The term is also used by detractors of globalization such as populist movements." Ever since man started discovering the world, colonising it, migration, trade and international interaction, historically there has been globalism. More recently with technological advances it has become the norm. One could argue that should the world wish to solve some of the problems civilisation has caused such as global warming and climate change, extinction of species, pollution and degradation of the planet, that globalism is essential. To do this, no-one is suggesting a one world government, just co-operation and a level of working towards a common goal when they mention globalism. Conspiracy theorists like your self, and idiots like Trump tend to exaggerate and scaremonger, in a MOST unhelpful manner. Trump is working for the Globalists. They own him, body and soul. The best way to win is to own both sides. TBH Trump is only working for himself and his ego, and because he is SO clueless about anything much at all, he has no real idea who or what he is working for! The Russians did him over, the Conservatives are deserting him, the Democrats are going to bring him down and he basically wallowing around in his own ignorance and filth.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 6, 2019 1:07:08 GMT
Trump is working for the Globalists. They own him, body and soul. The best way to win is to own both sides. TBH Trump is only working for himself and his ego, and because he is SO clueless about anything much at all, he has no real idea who or what he is working for! The Russians did him over, the Conservatives are deserting him, the Democrats are going to bring him down and he basically wallowing around in his own ignorance and filth. Do you think that under his administration Israel and Palestine might become separate nations? Or is Vladimir the one who decides those kind of things?
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Post by goz on Jan 6, 2019 1:21:40 GMT
TBH Trump is only working for himself and his ego, and because he is SO clueless about anything much at all, he has no real idea who or what he is working for! The Russians did him over, the Conservatives are deserting him, the Democrats are going to bring him down and he basically wallowing around in his own ignorance and filth. Do you think that under his administration Israel and Palestine might become separate nations? Or is Vladimir the one who decides those kind of things? Who the fuck knows or can predict with Trump? Even he doesn't know!
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 6, 2019 9:35:20 GMT
Sorry it took so long for me to reply to this, phludowin. If you'd like to explain how it's a loaded question when both of them motivate large groups of people to do things (sometimes awful things) that they wouldn't ordinarily do, I'm interested. The definitions of "religion" I got (mostly Wikipedia) say that there has to be a belief in something supernatural, spiritual or transcendent involved. This is not the case with globalism. Globalism concerns itself with economic relationships between economies; and in my opinion there's nothing spiritual or supernatural or transcendent about them. With nationalism it becomes more blurry. While there may be definitions of nations that there is more to a nation than just nationality to a state (e.g. language, core beliefs), most definitions of "nation" don't need anything supernatural, transcendent or spiritual. But some people see it differently; they say that there is such a thing as a common culture ("Leitkultur" in German); and in the case of theocracies some people mix nation and religion. Those definitions are most widely used, however there are alternate uses. To do something "religiously" means to be unwavering in doing it or devoted to it. A "god" can be whatever is "ultimate" or "supreme" in a person's life for example money, military prowess, physical attractiveness, or other concerns. In that sense I think you are on track. Nationalism is often the "ultimate" concern of nationalists more so than globalism is for globalists.
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