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Post by No Morpho, Only Bánh mì on Jan 8, 2019 15:14:58 GMT
Did you see it coming? Did it upset you then? Are you upset about it now? Do you really dig it? What about IM3 as a whole?
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Post by No Morpho, Only Bánh mì on Jan 8, 2019 15:23:29 GMT
I wasn’t really surprised by the twist.
I knew something was up way before the film came out. Mostly because of the focus on Guy Pearce/Killian. I mean, they had a poster for him. And going into the movie, there were clues that his role was more prominent within the “10 Rings” than lower level/beneath the Mandarin. That said, I really dug the twist, appreciated the way they pulled it off and think Kingsley played it so well. Killian wasn’t badly realized; I saw him like a stereotypical 80s/90s egotistical action movie baddie.
I do wish that they’d done what they originally intended with Maya Hansen as the main reveal/hidden villain. That would have been big.
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Post by James on Jan 8, 2019 15:50:30 GMT
I was spoiled by it, so it didn’t have affect on me as much. I mean it was pretty shocking, and slightly disappointing, but after a while, I learned to forgive it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 15:55:48 GMT
Going into the film , I was looking forward to seeing Ben Kingsley play a good / evil villain (I didn't know anything about the film going into it) so I was definitely let down big time when the twist was revealed . it turned the film into a joke . And it was a disappointing film overall (there were some cool moments in it though like the attack on Tony's house was really well done)
5/10
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 8, 2019 16:05:11 GMT
I thought it was by far the best and most original scene in that movie. I thought Ben Kingsley was hilarious especially after the the hammy performance he gave before.
I had never heard of the Mandarin before this movie. But I heard that it included a twist that upset fanboys. The least problematic MCU scene for me, but some see it differently.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 8, 2019 16:08:02 GMT
Yeah I thought it was clever and hilarious. I never saw Mandarin as an amazing character to begin with, and they couldn't translate him from the page with 100% accuracy because he's an outdated stereotype. They hyped him up as a Ledger Joker knockoff and went in a totally different direction with him. Brilliant if you ask me.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jan 8, 2019 16:19:44 GMT
Didn't like it at all and It wasn't funny at all.
White washing him didn't make it any better.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 8, 2019 16:25:41 GMT
Didn't like it at all and It wasn't funny at all. White washing him didn't make it any better. That's fair, but the alternative is the mystical Asian stereotype. It's the same reason they white washed the Ancient One in Doctor Strange. It's a lose/lose for the studio, and in both cases white washing seems like the lesser of two evils, at least to me.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jan 8, 2019 16:36:55 GMT
They white washed the ancient one because the Chinese would not have shown the movie if the ancient one was from Tibet.
I don't see any issue with having one Asian character like the Mandarin who is a villain (only an idiot would think that means all Asians are villains). I also don't see a problem if his super villain costume consists of traditional Chinese garb.
Are there any characters in movies and TV that don't have some stereotypical characteristics? If you tried to eliminate everything that could be called a stereotype your characters would not even be recognizable as Earthlings anymore.
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Post by No Morpho, Only Bánh mì on Jan 8, 2019 16:38:44 GMT
Didn't like it at all and It wasn't funny at all. White washing him didn't make it any better. I feel ya. At least it wasn’t a straight wash. It subverted expectations, turning the character into a myth, with an egotistical maniac at the helm. I still don’t see Killian as “the Mandarin”, in spite of him proclaiming to be- I take that as he is the real scare, the big bad, behind the Mandarin illusion. And with the Kingsley Icon, they still pulled from many cultures, so that played up the mystery well, too. 🤷♂️
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jan 8, 2019 16:44:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 16:44:59 GMT
on a flip side , I don't think a lot of movie goers were too bothered by the "twist" as IM3 made over a billion dollars lol. it was a huge box office success overall .
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Post by politicidal on Jan 8, 2019 16:50:51 GMT
I heard about the twist prior to seeing the movie. By complete accident and it really softened my expectations. The first half of the film is actually quite good. But once that moment occurred, it dropped the movie down from potentially becoming their best sequel ever up to that point to a merely fun one. It's ridiculous that they did that after all that build up from the first movie onward with the Ten Rings.
Imagine this. If they referenced Joker in Batman Begins. But once we see The Dark Knight, we find out he's just an unemployed mall Santa being used as a decoy for the most generic mobster type villain possible.
That's what they did with Iron Man's arch-nemesis.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jan 8, 2019 16:56:32 GMT
It's the reason why Iron Man 3 is my least favorite MCU movie.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 8, 2019 16:59:41 GMT
They white washed the ancient one because the Chinese would not have shown the movie if the ancient one was from Tibet. I don't see any issue with having one Asian character like the Mandarin who is a villain (only an idiot would think that means all Asians are villains). I also don't see a problem if his super villain costume consists of traditional Chinese garb. Are there any characters in movies and TV that don't have some stereotypical characteristics? If you tried to eliminate everything that could be called a stereotype your characters would not even be recognizable as Earthlings anymore. There's a long standing stereotypical character in Western culture of the mystical Asian. Hell, Big Trouble In Little China is one of my favorite movies of all time, but even as a farce I doubt the Lopan character plays as well today as it did back then. The idea isn't simply that the Asian character is a villain; it's the mystical Asian stereotype they wanted to avoid. Like I said, I'm old school and liberal enough to not buy into stereotypes. But it's just where we are in the 21st century. People are trying to be more culturally aware of the old clichés and stereotypes.
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Post by No Morpho, Only Bánh mì on Jan 8, 2019 17:02:04 GMT
I heard about the twist prior to seeing the movie. By complete accident and it really softened my expectations. The first half of the film is actually quite good. But once that moment occurred, it dropped the movie down from potentially becoming their best sequel ever up to that point to a merely fun one. It's ridiculous that they did that after all that build up from the first movie onward with the Ten Rings.
Imagine this. If they referenced Joker in Batman Begins. But once we see The Dark Knight, we find out he's just an unemployed mall Santa being used as a decoy for the most generic mobster type villain possible.
That's what they did with Iron Man's arch-nemesis. Fair. Although, Iron Man’s greatest enemy is continually Tony Stark. All of his problems stem from his own actions. Including the (MCU version of)10 Rings/A.I.M.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 8, 2019 17:28:01 GMT
I heard about the twist prior to seeing the movie. By complete accident and it really softened my expectations. The first half of the film is actually quite good. But once that moment occurred, it dropped the movie down from potentially becoming their best sequel ever up to that point to a merely fun one. It's ridiculous that they did that after all that build up from the first movie onward with the Ten Rings.
Imagine this. If they referenced Joker in Batman Begins. But once we see The Dark Knight, we find out he's just an unemployed mall Santa being used as a decoy for the most generic mobster type villain possible.
That's what they did with Iron Man's arch-nemesis. Killian as Mandarin was genius, I thought he was a compelling villain with a very relatable end game. His origin didn't make a ton of sense, I'll grant you that. But as a character his dialog and his grander scheme were better than most CBM villains by far. I don't see how a dude with magical space rings makes this movie better. In fact, I'd say they avoided that concept because it's too similar to the stuff they wanted to do in Doctor Strange and Infinity War.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jan 8, 2019 17:42:13 GMT
They white washed the ancient one because the Chinese would not have shown the movie if the ancient one was from Tibet. I don't see any issue with having one Asian character like the Mandarin who is a villain (only an idiot would think that means all Asians are villains). I also don't see a problem if his super villain costume consists of traditional Chinese garb. Are there any characters in movies and TV that don't have some stereotypical characteristics? If you tried to eliminate everything that could be called a stereotype your characters would not even be recognizable as Earthlings anymore. There's a long standing stereotypical character in Western culture of the mystical Asian. Hell, Big Trouble In Little China is one of my favorite movies of all time, but even as a farce I doubt the Lopan character plays as well today as it did back then. The idea isn't simply that the Asian character is a villain; it's the mystical Asian stereotype they wanted to avoid. Like I said, I'm old school and liberal enough to not buy into stereotypes. But it's just where we are in the 21st century. People are trying to be more culturally aware of the old clichés and stereotypes. Yes, I know that's the line of thinking but we also have mystical white guys, black guys and every other kind of person. It's not just Western culture but every culture. Are you telling me that ancient Chinese folklore doesn't have any mystical characters? Heck I've seen a lot of Chinese-made fantasy movies that have them.
The entire fantasy genre is based on mystical characters.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 8, 2019 18:39:23 GMT
There's a long standing stereotypical character in Western culture of the mystical Asian. Hell, Big Trouble In Little China is one of my favorite movies of all time, but even as a farce I doubt the Lopan character plays as well today as it did back then. The idea isn't simply that the Asian character is a villain; it's the mystical Asian stereotype they wanted to avoid. Like I said, I'm old school and liberal enough to not buy into stereotypes. But it's just where we are in the 21st century. People are trying to be more culturally aware of the old clichés and stereotypes. Yes, I know that's the line of thinking but we also have mystical white guys, black guys and every other kind of person. It's not just Western culture but every culture. Are you telling me that ancient Chinese folklore doesn't have any mystical characters? Heck I've seen a lot of Chinese-made fantasy movies that have them.
The entire fantasy genre is based on mystical characters.
Movies are predominantly produced, controlled and feature white people, that's the difference. A minority is begging for more representation and all they give you is a generic stereotype role, how are you going to feel? Asian cinema can do whatever it wants with its characters just like white people can do whatever they want with white people for the same reason. It's the reason M'Baku works in BP and would not work in a film overwhelmingly featuring white people with a white production crew. Frankly, it's the same reason black rappers can use the N word and white ones can't. Political correctness can spiral out of control, I won't argue that. But in most cases I understand why these decisions are made. There are so many social factors in play when you're trying to give opportunities to underrepresented people and be respectful of cultural differences at the same time. Sometimes you roll your eyes at this stuff (personally, I can't wait until it's no longer necessary for the BP director to be black, or the Wonder Woman director to be a woman, etc.), but I'd rather roll my eyes now than continue to look back and cringe as we continue the inequality that's been on display in popular culture for... well, for as long as storytelling in any form has been in existence.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 18:39:52 GMT
I thought it was fine. I knew who The Mandarin was, and I did not see the twist coming. I can only take so much complaining about it too. I understand a lot of people didn't like it, but there's a difference between not liking a movie and it not being good. There's no reason to throw out a perfectly good movie because you personally don't like something. Accept that it works for others, if not you, and move on. More movies will come to save the day.
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