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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Sept 2, 2019 22:13:30 GMT
I think Jean-Luc Picard was a fantastic character, played to perfection by Patrick Stewart, but I am really not very optimistic about this new show. Yes, but it was hard to keep remembering that he was French with that accent of his. Had it not occurred to you that perhaps Picard was French-English? "The Picard that fought at Trafalgar Square."
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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Sept 2, 2019 22:23:33 GMT
A senior citizen aged Picard... with a thief & a drug addict? Seriously? Even some of the worst trek episodes in the last 50 years, sounds better than this... I'm highly doubtful that this series will do well. I'll be surprised if it lasts for more than one season. The best original Star Trek series movies were where Kirk and crew were not officially working for Starfleet but were in fact renegades.
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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Sept 2, 2019 22:27:32 GMT
I knew before the trailers or any other information came out that Picard was going to be at the Picard family vineyard in France.
Anyone who was familiar with The Next Generation series and especially the movies -- Generations in particular -- would have known that.
What I want to know is, what's up with Data's -- or B4's -- face?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 2, 2019 23:04:28 GMT
Yes, but it was hard to keep remembering that he was French with that accent of his. Had it not occurred to you that perhaps Picard was French-English? "The Picard that fought at Trafalgar Square." No, I suppose it didn't occur to me, but I seem to recall that Jeremy Kemp guest-starred as Jean-Luc's brother, and he had a vineyard in France.
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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Sept 2, 2019 23:38:47 GMT
That's true.
He could have been a French expatriate who spent most of his life in Britain or perhaps even America.
After all, Starfleet is based in San Francisco.
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Post by leesilm on Sept 23, 2019 4:04:04 GMT
I mean, I don't have CBS all access (doesn't work so well when your internet takes 10mins to load a 2min trailer), so I'll have to wait for the DVDs, but I will be watching. I always liked Captain Picard (he's my second-favorite Captain of the TV show Captains) and the trailer looks interesting. Besides, I'm a sucker for the retired/has-been/all-but-forgotten hero being pulled back from their retirement/self-enforced hermithood/being off in the sunset, to come save the world again.
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Post by azzajones on Oct 7, 2019 8:36:38 GMT
Release date for the show: January 23. New details on the show from a panel at NYCC, I've taken this from IGN.com:
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Post by leesilm on Oct 8, 2019 16:51:47 GMT
Woot woot
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Post by leesilm on Oct 17, 2019 21:08:29 GMT
People on Tumblr are theorizing the girl is Picard's daughter... I can dig it.
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Post by azzajones on Oct 25, 2019 10:08:21 GMT
I'm guessing the girl is the daughter of 2 former Borg, and that Borg implants and nanites affected her development in her mother's womb.
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Post by azzajones on Jan 20, 2020 6:21:34 GMT
IGN interview with a few of the stars & behind the scenes people. I hope there are organic reasons for the galaxy being in a mess, (i.e. The Dominion War etc) and the writers haven't just invented new things to do that.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jan 20, 2020 7:07:58 GMT
Kurtzman, one of the worst writers in Hollywood history.
Made a train wreck of Zorro, Transformers, ST-OS, might as well do the same with Star Trek-NG.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 2:07:32 GMT
Just saw the first episode. I give it Meh out of 10. Spoilers ahoy!
So my biggest problem is that I fundamentally don't buy the idea of the Federation/Starfleet as a dystopia. The thing that always set Trek apart from most shows is the optimistic vision of the future of humanity. There were problems, sure, but the problems were external, not internal. The whole message of the franchise has always been that things can work out, and will work out, and it'll be great. If I want to watch a dystopia I'd watch non-Trek shows like Babylon 5, Dark Matter, Discovery, Battlestar Galactica, etc.
And the girl makes no sense. She's Data's "daughter" because they used a single neurone from his brain? I don't buy it. And Picard, contemplating this, makes no mention of Data's actual daughter, Lal? I don't buy that. And she's a biological life form, but she has all the super speed and strength of a Soong android? I don't buy that, either. And we're told these androids have to be made in twos? Why?
It just... this didn't feel like Star Trek, let along a sequel to TNG, the most optimistic Star Trek there is. It felt like generic sci fi with a veneer of Trek on top. I can't say it's terrible, I can't say I hated it - it isn't terrible, and I didn't hate it.
It just... it made me sad, honestly. It could have been so, so much better than it is.
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Post by onethreetwo on Jan 24, 2020 17:13:52 GMT
Spoilers
I just watched the first episode. I loved it. Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The twin thing actually makes no sense. But I found myself actually getting really emotional watching it. I'm not ashamed to say I teared up during Picard's interview at the start of the episode. Stewart's acting in the episode is next level. Beyond anything we are used to seeing from actors, even really good ones. I 100% believe Picard loved Data like a son, and I can feel how tormented he still feels about Data's death. I didn't just love the episode, I want to rewatch it 2 or 3 more times. It's beautiful, it's heart wrenching, it's exciting, and yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I can't wait for the next episode.
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Post by kleinreturns on Jan 24, 2020 21:35:02 GMT
Spoilers I just watched the first episode. I loved it. Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The twin thing actually makes no sense. But I found myself actually getting really emotional watching it. I'm not ashamed to say I teared up during Picard's interview at the start of the episode. Stewart's acting in the episode is next level. Beyond anything we are used to seeing from actors, even really good ones. I 100% believe Picard loved Data like a son, and I can feel how tormented he still feels about Data's death. I didn't just love the episode, I want to rewatch it 2 or 3 more times. It's beautiful, it's heart wrenching, it's exciting, and yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I can't wait for the next episode. This episode actually elevated Nemesis for me somewhat (primarily Data's sacrifice).
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 26, 2020 3:05:10 GMT
Just saw the first episode. I give it Meh out of 10. Spoilers ahoy! So my biggest problem is that I fundamentally don't buy the idea of the Federation/Starfleet as a dystopia. The thing that always set Trek apart from most shows is the optimistic vision of the future of humanity. There were problems, sure, but the problems were external, not internal. The whole message of the franchise has always been that things can work out, and will work out, and it'll be great. If I want to watch a dystopia I'd watch non-Trek shows like Babylon 5, Dark Matter, Discovery, Battlestar Galactica, etc. And the girl makes no sense. She's Data's "daughter" because they used a single neurone from his brain? I don't buy it. And Picard, contemplating this, makes no mention of Data's actual daughter, Lal? I don't buy that. And she's a biological life form, but she has all the super speed and strength of a Soong android? I don't buy that, either. And we're told these androids have to be made in twos? Why? It just... this didn't feel like Star Trek, let along a sequel to TNG, the most optimistic Star Trek there is. It felt like generic sci fi with a veneer of Trek on top. I can't say it's terrible, I can't say I hated it - it isn't terrible, and I didn't hate it. It just... it made me sad, honestly. It could have been so, so much better than it is. I agree that saying Data is her "father" is kind of dubious. Although the way they described it, I kind of get it; because it's not just that she has one of his neutrons, it was that in some ambiguous (and probably convoluted) way, Maddox was able to find a way to derive Data's "essence" from that neutron, almost like some sort of genetic memory. So whatever spark that made Data unique from other failed attempts at artificial life like him, could be accessed somehow from that neutron. Thus, she doesn't have all of his memories or personality traits, per se, it's more subconscious. Which isn't to say that I'm suggesting it makes sense in the slightest, but that was at least how they tried to explain it. The whole idea of somehow making a "biological synthetic" seemed dumb; in what way would that be an android instead of just a biological life form? I have mixed feelings about the synth attack and the response to outlaw synthetic life forms. It's certainly piqued my curiosity as to where this will play out; and in particular, what happened to say, Voyager's Doctor? The reaction seems overblown and illogical, indicting all artificial life forms for the actions of a few, but unfortunately that sort of prejudice and simplistic mentality isn't out of the realm of plausibility. And that's where I have mixed feelings about it, because on the one hand it kind of conventionally works, to a degree, but on the other hand, the ideal behind Star Trek is that it shouldn't work. Yet Star Trek's history is replete with instances of dubious conflicts and the poor judgments of small minded people - the conspiracy at the center of "The Undiscovered Country," the conspiracy at the center of "Homefront". The very existence of Section 31. And of course many of these were likewise met with their fair share criticism from fans for being "un-Star Trek" or just simply uninspired. I mentioned this in a thread in a different board section, but did anyone else feel like the TNG and movie era uniforms looked off somehow? They didn't look like they fit Brent or Patrick properly, especially the sleeves. They looked more like fan made costumes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 3:24:03 GMT
I agree that saying Data is her "father" is kind of dubious. Although the way they described it, I kind of get it; because it's not just that she has one of his neutrons, it was that in some ambiguous (and probably convoluted) way, Maddox was able to find a way to derive Data's "essence" from that neutron, almost like some sort of genetic memory. So whatever spark that made Data unique from other failed attempts at artificial life like him, could be accessed somehow from that neutron. Thus, she doesn't have all of his memories or personality traits, per se, it's more subconscious. Which isn't to say that I'm suggesting it makes sense in the slightest, but that was at least how they tried to explain it. The whole idea of somehow making a "biological synthetic" seemed dumb; in what way would that be an android instead of just a biological life form? I have mixed feelings about the synth attack and the response to outlaw synthetic life forms. It's certainly piqued my curiosity as to where this will play out Well there are rumours about how it will play out, which I will spoiler : The synths didn't do the attack. Bruce Maddox did, in cooperation with the Tal Shiar. Maddox is described as having become 'a Donald Trump figure', and is the ultimate bad guy of the series. There's also suggestion that the Federation will ultimately break up and cease to exist over this. The difference is that those were always treated as the acts of individual, or small groups, of bad guys. When the conspiracy to sabotage peace was uncovered in Star Trek VI, the response of the Federation government was not "yeah, that's our policy now, random murder!" Likewise when Admiral Leyton's plan was uncovered, the Federation didn't say "military dictatorship, that's for us!" The Federation was consistently shown as being unwilling to accept these things, to want to root them out and get rid of them. But not now. Now the Federation are the bad guys, as a matter of policy. Now you'd have a better argument invoking Section 31. Which is why that's one of the things I absolutely hated about DS9 and Enterprise. A lot of stuff looked "off". Like their version of the E-D - it had the same metallic hull colour that you see in things like Discovery, as if it's bare hull metal; not the light grey paint of the actual ship. And the hull detailing was off. And 10 Forward was all done in white, not the warm colours of TNG.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 26, 2020 4:02:31 GMT
That wouldn't surprise me at all, I meant to mention as speculation that the attack was probably staged somehow. Bruce's involvement as instigator is interesting; and maybe a little disappointing. He's clearly meant to be the disagreeable antagonist in the TNG episode he appeared in, but the mention in the Picard premiere as having continued trying to pioneer artificial intelligence like Data was something I rather liked. It gave the impression that he had come to see Data as more than a machine and that Data's death motivated him to want to bring at least some part of him back.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 30, 2020 21:05:33 GMT
Just saw the first episode. I give it Meh out of 10. Spoilers ahoy! So my biggest problem is that I fundamentally don't buy the idea of the Federation/Starfleet as a dystopia. The thing that always set Trek apart from most shows is the optimistic vision of the future of humanity. There were problems, sure, but the problems were external, not internal. The whole message of the franchise has always been that things can work out, and will work out, and it'll be great. If I want to watch a dystopia I'd watch non-Trek shows like Babylon 5, Dark Matter, Discovery, Battlestar Galactica, etc. And the girl makes no sense. She's Data's "daughter" because they used a single neurone from his brain? I don't buy it. And Picard, contemplating this, makes no mention of Data's actual daughter, Lal? I don't buy that. And she's a biological life form, but she has all the super speed and strength of a Soong android? I don't buy that, either. And we're told these androids have to be made in twos? Why? It just... this didn't feel like Star Trek, let along a sequel to TNG, the most optimistic Star Trek there is. It felt like generic sci fi with a veneer of Trek on top. I can't say it's terrible, I can't say I hated it - it isn't terrible, and I didn't hate it. It just... it made me sad, honestly. It could have been so, so much better than it is. This sums up my feelings about the first episode. It feels like some other sci-fi shoe horned into the Star Trek franchise and I found myself wishing this was something new. Most of us old fans loved Trek because it gave hope that everything could work out, an example for mankind, that humans could evolve beyond basic animal impulses. Picard seems to devolve Trek and turns it into the same old same old.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 22:06:23 GMT
Just watched episode 2. Not a lot happened, really. Not sure what the attitude to spoilers is here, but mild spoilers follow....
So it turns out that the super-secret Tal Shiar is just a front for a super-DUPER-secret organisation. Not sure what the point of that is, why not just make it the Tal Shiar? What's the benefit of a new one? You just know Section 31 is going to be along since the show is big on "things that violate the whole point of Star Trek", but are they going to reveal that Section 31 is just a front for the even more secret Section 32!?!?
Anyway, the aim of this organisation is to destroy any form of synthetic life. Picard's housekeeper notes that Romulan society has never had anything like that - "We don't have androids or AIs, we don't study cybernetics..." she said. Which doesn't really square with "I know a host of Romulan cyberneticists that would love to be this close to you." Said by Jarok to Data in The Defector. But oh well.
Admiral Bitch Lady, who gives Picard a tongue-lashing... the thing that jumped out at me about that scene was that it would have been a perfect role for Admiral Nechayev. And Natalia Nogulich is still very active in the acting world, so why not?
The pacing of the show seems kind of slow to me. Two episodes in and we're still basically wallowing around on Earth. Picard wants to find the robo-chick, but we the audience already know exactly where she is and what she's doing. So we're spending a lot of screen time watching Picard look for answers that we already have.
And also... This show persists in acting like Picard and Data were super close friends. But... they weren't. I mean, Picard obviously had great admiration for Data, but they were never particularly close as friends - Picard kept his distance from all of the crew, after all.
I think it was the RLM review where they point out that in The Most Toys, where Data is apparently killed, Picard was sad about it but he was ready to write it off as another dead crewman and get on with the mission. It was Geordi that obsessed over it, because Geordi was always the one that was especially close to Data. So I do find it a bit weird that the idea is being pushed that Picard saw Data practically as his son.
Patrick Stewart's acting is still good, though.
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