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Post by Salzmank on Jan 22, 2019 5:21:00 GMT
I’m starting to think this is like talking to that other guy about caramel. Oy. Forget it.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 22, 2019 5:22:44 GMT
Could you re-read what I already wrote? Great suggestion, butt that is not in yon person's activity list.  |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 22, 2019 5:22:46 GMT
I agree. Local dialects and local accents are two different things. Which is why I only asserted that the usage of the word 'gotten' might be a commonality with an accent. I agree with you goz, if a person uses an American dialect when either writing or speaking, it is logical to assume they probably also have an American accent. But still, dialect and accent are two different things. |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 22, 2019 5:23:38 GMT
I’m starting to think this is like talking to that other guy about caramel. Oy. Forget it. GMTA again ….  |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 22, 2019 5:27:09 GMT
movielikerThe word GOTTEN is neither dialect NOR accent and has NOTHING, zero, zip to do with the question of where the OP got the idea that Americans think they don't have accents? goz has once again hijacked a thread … butt she is known to enjoy that … so ….
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Post by movieliker on Jan 22, 2019 5:31:30 GMT
movielikerThe word GOTTEN is neither dialect NOR accent and has NOTHING, zero, zip to do with the question of where the OP got the idea that Americans think they don't have accents? goz has once again hijacked a thread … butt she is known to enjoy that … so …. I disagree. -------- di·a·lectnoun a particular form of a language which is peculiar to a specific region or social group.
"this novel is written in the dialect of Trinidad"
synonyms:regional language, local language, local tongue, local speech, local parlance, variety of language-------- I believe the use of the word "gotten" is an example of a certain dialect. But I agree I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not Americans think they have an accent. |
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 22, 2019 5:41:23 GMT
movieliker got·ten[ˈɡätn] DEFINITION :past participle of get.
"I believe the use of the word "gotten" is an example of a certain dialect." Nope: Not accent, dialect or local usage--- it's a part of speech in the English language.
"But I agree I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not Americans think they have an accent." ^^^^ YES !
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 22, 2019 5:45:24 GMT
Everyone has his or her own accent although the group in the majority may not feel so because their accent is more common and thus some believe it is the benchmark/neutral.
Departing from the thread for a moment but staying on the wider topic - I pronounce data as "dahta" (dɑːtə) and not "dayta (deɪtə)". It seems my version is only popular among the majority in Ireland. Majority people in all other countries prefer the version that I don't pronounce. Should I try to change my pronunciation?
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Post by movieliker on Jan 22, 2019 5:47:42 GMT
movieliker got·ten[ˈɡätn] DEFINITION :past participle of get.
"I believe the use of the word "gotten" is an example of a certain dialect." Nope: Not accent, dialect or local usage--- it's a part of speech in the English language.
"But I agree I don't see how that has anything to do with whether or not Americans think they have an accent." ^^^^ YES ! But the suggestion that Americans use the word "gotten" more than other English speaking countries, suggest that is a characteristic of an American dialect. |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 22, 2019 5:50:33 GMT
Everyone has his or her own accent although the group in the majority may not feel so because their accent is more common and thus some believe it is the benchmark/neutral. Departing from the thread for a moment but staying on the wider topic - I pronounce data as "dahta" (dɑːtə) and not "dayta (deɪtə)". It seems my version is only popular among the majority in Ireland. Majority people in all other countries prefer the version that I don't pronounce. Should I try to change my pronunciation? In my opinion, as long as people understand you, and you are not suffering any social or professional consequences due to your pronunciation, it is just a matter of personal preference. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 22, 2019 6:02:11 GMT
Everyone has his or her own accent although the group in the majority may not feel so because their accent is more common and thus some believe it is the benchmark/neutral. Departing from the thread for a moment but staying on the wider topic - I pronounce data as "dahta" (dɑːtə) and not "dayta (deɪtə)". It seems my version is only popular among the majority in Ireland. Majority people in all other countries prefer the version that I don't pronounce. Should I try to change my pronunciation? In my opinion, as long as people understand you, and you are not suffering any social or professional consequences due to your pronunciation, it is just a matter of personal preference. Yeah, it is pretty difficult for me to change my pronunciation and even though pronunciation is different from accent they are to some degree linked. Good thing for me is that I have nothing to do with making good presentations. I am a finance guy and so I have to work with numbers and that's why I don't work on my accent. I sometimes do work on getting my pronunciation right as I am a non-English speaker and I try to respect the English language. But I do not work on improving my accent - it is what it is! The Oxford dictionary says that my version of pronouncing data is still acceptable. |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 22, 2019 6:07:56 GMT
In my opinion, as long as people understand you, and you are not suffering any social or professional consequences due to your pronunciation, it is just a matter of personal preference. Yeah, it is pretty difficult for me to change my pronunciation and even though pronunciation is different from accent they are to some degree linked. Good thing for me is that I have nothing to do with making good presentations. I am a finance guy and so I have to work with numbers and that's why I don't work on my accent. I sometimes do work on getting my pronunciation right as I am a non-English speaker and I try to respect the English language. But I do not work on improving my accent - it is what it is! The Oxford dictionary says that my version of pronouncing data is still acceptable. Do you normally speak Irish? Many people find accents appealing. Like I said, as long as people understand you, no problem. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 22, 2019 6:13:53 GMT
Yeah, it is pretty difficult for me to change my pronunciation and even though pronunciation is different from accent they are to some degree linked. Good thing for me is that I have nothing to do with making good presentations. I am a finance guy and so I have to work with numbers and that's why I don't work on my accent. I sometimes do work on getting my pronunciation right as I am a non-English speaker and I try to respect the English language. But I do not work on improving my accent - it is what it is! The Oxford dictionary says that my version of pronouncing data is still acceptable. Do you normally speak Irish? Many people find accents appealing. Like I said, as long as people understand you, no problem. No, I am an Indian. I read in a topic on qoura that dɑːtə is more common pronunciation in Ireland among the English speaking countries.
I do find certain accents very cool. Italian accent for example. But it's just a matter of personal preference I guess.
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Post by kls on Jan 22, 2019 6:27:55 GMT
In what part of America do people say gotten? I don't recall hearing that except in the phrase ill gotten.
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Post by movieliker on Jan 22, 2019 6:30:38 GMT
In what part of America do people say gotten? I don't recall hearing that except in the phrase ill gotten. Yeah, that was my reaction. I don't use "gotten". And I don't remember hearing it. |
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Post by Salzmank on Jan 22, 2019 6:32:24 GMT
In what part of America do people say gotten? I don't recall hearing that except in the phrase ill gotten. I’m originally from Long Island, I’m now in Boston, and people in both places use it all the time. “I’d just gotten up when…” Do you mean to say you’ve never heard the word? It makes logical sense, too, especially when one looks at forgotten, begotten, etc. The British/Commonwealth (other than Canada) tendency always to use got is a fairly late development. |
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Post by movieliker on Jan 22, 2019 6:34:08 GMT
Do you normally speak Irish? Many people find accents appealing. Like I said, as long as people understand you, no problem. No, I am an Indian. I read in a topic on qoura that dɑːtə is more common pronunciation in Ireland among the English speaking countries.
I do find certain accents very cool. Italian accent for example. But it's just a matter of personal preference I guess.
I love accents. I hate bad grammar. And bad annunciation from those who should know better. (Not foreigners to whom English is not their first language.) |
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Post by kls on Jan 22, 2019 6:35:35 GMT
In what part of America do people say gotten? I don't recall hearing that except in the phrase ill gotten. I’m originally from Long Island, I’m now in Boston, and people in both places use it all the time. “I’d just gotten up when…” Do you mean to say you’ve never heard the word? Not that I recall. I've heard "I just got up." (but over 90 percent of the time it would be I just woke up). |
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Post by Salzmank on Jan 22, 2019 6:37:32 GMT
Some interesting comments here, somewhat apropos for thread: I must confess I haven’t found anything about areas of the U.S. that absolutely do not use gotten.
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Post by Salzmank on Jan 22, 2019 6:41:22 GMT
I’m originally from Long Island, I’m now in Boston, and people in both places use it all the time. “I’d just gotten up when…” Do you mean to say you’ve never heard the word? Not that I recall. I've heard "I just got up." (but over 90 percent of the time it would be I just woke up). Right, but your statement is in past tense, while mine is in pluperfect. Would you say “I had just got up when…” [“when the mailman rang,” for example]? Everything I’ve always learned, and from what I’m reading online as we speak, is that gotten would be standard North American usage in that case. There’s also a subtle difference here: “Sally and Joe have got a dog” implies present possession, while “Sally and Joe have gotten a dog” implies that they have purchased it in the recent past. |
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