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Post by poelzig on Jul 20, 2019 8:28:30 GMT
First of all I find it dubious at best that there are enough Americans who don't think they have accents to warrant this being a serious discussion. No offense Oakes since it's actually been a somewhat interesting read.
Secondly gotten is most definitely an actual word.
Thirdly it's obvious from posts here that people in every country are equally oblivious about accents that are not native to their region. For example non Southerners think if an actor just tosses some corn pone drawl into their voice it's a believable Southern accent even if the actor is obviously from Jersey or even Manchester. Many Americans think if an actor sounds uptight with that clipped posh snotty vibe he's authentically British. Don Cheadle is believable as a Cockney guy some probably think. Conversely Brits get upset when an actor from 2 streets south of Big Ben portrays a character from 2 streets north of Big Ben. "Totally rubbish accent there mate" they might whinge.
Fourth I can convincingly imitate most accents from anywhere in the world if I listen to it for a few hours. When visiting Europe I'm often mistaken for a native despite the lack of black guys in most every country there. Nothing but a whole lot of white folks all over that continent.
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 20, 2019 9:02:53 GMT
First of all I find it dubious at best that there are enough Americans who don't think they have accents to warrant this being a serious discussion. I'm not going to read this thread. Just read a few posts at the beginning. "Why do Americans think they don't have an accent?" is a question not infrequently raised by non-American English-speakers that arises out of a misunderstanding (or ignorance) of the definitions of "accent." Those who ask this question are using "accent" to mean a form of pronunciation that is characteristic of a particular group or region.The definition of "accent" used by Americans who say they themselves do not have accents is a form of pronunciation that is characteristic of a particular group or region that is foreign to us.This latter definition centers normalcy of pronunciation within the group itself. Anything that is well-articulated but sounds foreign is an accent. This definition easily fits with the usage of "accent" when referring to how a non-native speaker sounds when speaking a different language. So an American who does not recognize himself or his sibling as having an "accent" would not find any problem with being told by a French friend whose mother tongue is French that he (the American) speaks French with an American accent--because the accent is a mark of sounding foreign. The French person, presumably, speaks French without an accent, in the American's perspective, under this definition. Are you black?
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Post by poelzig on Jul 20, 2019 9:14:37 GMT
First of all I find it dubious at best that there are enough Americans who don't think they have accents to warrant this being a serious discussion. I'm not going to read this thread. Just read a few posts at the beginning. "Why do Americans think they don't have an accent?" is a question not infrequently raised by non-American English-speakers that arises out of a misunderstanding (or ignorance) of the definitions of "accent." Those who ask this question are using "accent" to mean a form of pronunciation that is characteristic of a particular group or region.The definition of "accent" used by Americans who say they themselves do not have accents is a form of pronunciation that is characteristic of a particular group or region that is foreign to us.This latter definition centers normalcy of pronunciation within the group itself. Anything that is well-articulated but sounds foreign is an accent. This definition easily fits with the usage of "accent" when referring to how a non-native speaker sounds when speaking a different language. So an American who does not recognize himself or his sibling as having an "accent" would not find any problem with being told by a French friend whose mother tongue is French that he (the American) speaks French with an American accent--because the accent is a mark of sounding foreign. The French person, presumably, speaks French without an accent, in the American's perspective, under this definition. Are you black? Yes although I prefer to refer to all us people of color as swarthy as it covers a much larger group of people. Also a lot of people don't know what swarthy means and have to look it up. Also is it politically correct to ask that these days? Hmmmm
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 20, 2019 9:24:42 GMT
is it politically correct to ask that these days? Hmmmm How can it be "politically incorrect" to ask someone if they were implying they are black by this statement: "Swarthy" tends to carry a negative connotation in much of American parlance, so I would think that a poor choice for describing black people, unless your intent was to claim the term as an act of pride and defiance.
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Post by amyghost on Jul 20, 2019 10:59:38 GMT
Well some Americans think that Americans don`t have an accent, but of course they do as everybody has an accent. Americans think they don't have an accent because they're stupid. Of course we have accents. If the English language came to us via the British then it's the British who sound correct and we're the ones who changed the accent to something else. We even have accents amongst ourselves depending on the part of the country! There are places in the American South where you can still hear traces of a British, Irish or Scots accent if you listen carefully. The natives of Tangier Island, off the Virginia coast, have a highly unusual and distinct accent that's said to be a direct lineage of the island's early British settlers (I've heard some say it has its roots in Elizabethan dialect, but I've found no scholarly confirmation of that). Some of the coastal natives of North Carolina and of Maryland's Smith Island have similar regional accents that some believe have their roots in early English dialect. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangier,_Virginia#Language
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Post by ellynmacg on Jul 20, 2019 21:01:27 GMT
Americans think they don't have an accent because they're stupid. Of course we have accents. If the English language came to us via the British then it's the British who sound correct and we're the ones who changed the accent to something else. We even have accents amongst ourselves depending on the part of the country! There are places in the American South where you can still hear traces of a British, Irish or Scots accent if you listen carefully. The natives of Tangier Island, off the Virginia coast, have a highly unusual and distinct accent that's said to be a direct lineage of the island's early British settlers (I've heard some say it has its roots in Elizabethan dialect, but I've found no scholarly confirmation of that). Some of the coastal natives of North Carolina and of Maryland's Smith Island have similar regional accents that some believe have their roots in early English dialect. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangier,_Virginia#Language Wow, amyghost , this is kind of odd--yesterday, when I clicked on alfromni's link that led to an interesting and entertaining video about the variety of accents throughout Ireland, I came upon another video concerning a distinctive accent--really more of a dialect--that looked interesting, so I watched it. It was about the variety of English spoken by the people of Tangier Island! 
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Post by Jokers_Wilde on Jul 20, 2019 21:32:49 GMT
It wasn't until I started travelling to the States for hockey games that I noticed those from Michigan had a slight accent.
Then again, they probably think I have a Canadian accent, eh? 
I remember going up to one of the border guards. We explained we were going to the game in Saginaw.
He said, "You must be real dedicated fans to travel all that way for a hackey game!" My response was, "No doubt, eh?"
I didn't even realize I added the 'eh'. Buddy of mine told me after we were waived thru. I howled laughing afterwards.
Joker's Wilde
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Post by poelzig on Jul 21, 2019 0:47:56 GMT
is it politically correct to ask that these days? Hmmmm How can it be "politically incorrect" to ask someone if they were implying they are black by this statement: "Swarthy" tends to carry a negative connotation in much of American parlance, so I would think that a poor choice for describing black people, unless your intent was to claim the term as an act of pride and defiance. I think my comment made it obvious I was black but some people need to be spoon fed. I guess to hate filled shit stupid racists calling someone dark complexioned is an insult. Most people understand it's just a word. Not everyone though, huh? What race are you by the way and What makes you think you have your finger on the pulse of America? Are you even American? You have some greek script as a name and don't even have a gender listed or a picture. Why so paranoid? I can assure you that no one at all anywhere is looking for you. No need to answer tho really. It's painfully obvious you are just another nondescript white American so relax and go take it the way greeks love it. Στην υγειά σας
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jul 21, 2019 4:06:40 GMT
How can it be "politically incorrect" to ask someone if they were implying they are black by this statement: "Swarthy" tends to carry a negative connotation in much of American parlance, so I would think that a poor choice for describing black people, unless your intent was to claim the term as an act of pride and defiance. I think my comment made it obvious I was black but some people need to be spoon fed. I guess to hate filled shit stupid racists calling someone dark complexioned is an insult. Most people understand it's just a word. Not everyone though, huh? What race are you by the way ... Are you even American? You have some greek script as a name and don't even have a gender listed or a picture. Why so paranoid? I can assure you that no one at all anywhere is looking for you. No need to answer tho really. It's painfully obvious you are just another nondescript white American so relax and go take it the way greeks love it. Στην υγειά σας I'm whatever you want me to be. 
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Post by poelzig on Jul 21, 2019 4:17:28 GMT
I think my comment made it obvious I was black but some people need to be spoon fed. I guess to hate filled shit stupid racists calling someone dark complexioned is an insult. Most people understand it's just a word. Not everyone though, huh? What race are you by the way ... Are you even American? You have some greek script as a name and don't even have a gender listed or a picture. Why so paranoid? I can assure you that no one at all anywhere is looking for you. No need to answer tho really. It's painfully obvious you are just another nondescript white American so relax and go take it the way greeks love it. Στην υγειά σας I'm whatever you want me to be. 
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Post by amyghost on Jul 21, 2019 10:58:35 GMT
There are places in the American South where you can still hear traces of a British, Irish or Scots accent if you listen carefully. The natives of Tangier Island, off the Virginia coast, have a highly unusual and distinct accent that's said to be a direct lineage of the island's early British settlers (I've heard some say it has its roots in Elizabethan dialect, but I've found no scholarly confirmation of that). Some of the coastal natives of North Carolina and of Maryland's Smith Island have similar regional accents that some believe have their roots in early English dialect. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangier,_Virginia#Language Wow, amyghost , this is kind of odd--yesterday, when I clicked on alfromni's link that led to an interesting and entertaining video about the variety of accents throughout Ireland, I came upon another video concerning a distinctive accent--really more of a dialect--that looked interesting, so I watched it. It was about the variety of English spoken by the people of Tangier Island! That is so cool! The Tangier accent seems to be a source of fascination for linguists in many places. And speaking of 'holdovers' in American accents, try the North, and especially the Brooklyn area of New York City. Many natives of that area still pronounce a lot of words that begin with the 'th' sound as 't' ('T'ings' for 'things', for example) or sometimes even 'd' ('dat' for 'that') which appears often in Irish pronunciations, and is a descendant of NYC's large immigrant Irish population. Massachusetts is also famous for its accent, especially the city of Boston, and apparently much of that regional accent also derives from Irish and British word soundings.
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Post by Bargle on Jul 21, 2019 13:40:17 GMT
I'm an American and I know I have an accent. In fact, I speak two. This is a result of having a mother from East Tennessee and a father who grew up in Michigan. That's right, I'm bi-accental. I'm also an Air Force brat and moved around quite a bit when young, so I suspect my speech patterns are a mix of various regions.
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Post by hermionegranger on Jul 23, 2019 14:13:06 GMT
When I was visiting friends in France as a teenager (when George W. Bush was president), they asked me to do a Texas accent. So I tried. It wasn't very good, but they couldn't tell.
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