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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 5:05:50 GMT
It always interests me to see how some superheroes are treated with respect by studios while others, like Ant Man, Guardians of the Galaxy and Shazam are given movies with so much self depreciating humor that they are basically spoofs and parodies of the source material...
I wonder, not knowing anything about the comic character myself , could a more serious Shazam movie have worked? Or was the comedy route the right choice?
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Post by scabab on Jan 22, 2019 14:18:25 GMT
I'm not familiar with the character either but I do recall watching the animated movie Justice League War and it was Shazam who was the most jokey of the bunch.
What with this reputation of DC being so dark and moody, they even joked about it in Deadpool 2, I don't know if they're trying to overcompensate on this one.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 22, 2019 16:29:57 GMT
The teaser tagline was literally "He's not so serious". I think they're really trying to hammer it in that this is not a Snyder joint.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jan 22, 2019 16:37:44 GMT
Costumed comic book superheroes should never be taken seriously. They should be fun popcorn action adventures just like Star Wars and Indiana Jones.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 22, 2019 17:26:37 GMT
Costumed comic book superheroes should never be taken seriously. They should be fun popcorn action adventures just like Star Wars and Indiana Jones. With torture and maiming for the whole family to enjoy! I remember when I saw The Dark Knight in theaters, the first four rows were all kids under ten. I'm sure they turned out fine.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 22:22:29 GMT
Costumed comic book superheroes should never be taken seriously. They should be fun popcorn action adventures just like Star Wars and Indiana Jones. It's a sliding scale though, isn't it? Infinity War, Winter Soldier, Iron Man and Civil War all take their characters seriously. I'm talking about when the characters are treated like complete jokes.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 22, 2019 22:33:56 GMT
It always interests me to see how some superheroes are treated with respect by studios while others, like Ant Man, Guardians of the Galaxy and Shazam are given movies with so much self depreciating humor that they are basically spoofs and parodies of the source material... I wonder, not knowing anything about the comic character myself , could a more serious Shazam movie have worked? Or was the comedy route the right choice? I believe they went comedy for two reasons:
A) as a response to the criticisms that DCEU is too dark and B) because the latest version of the character at DC skews comedy too. Not this much! But it does skew comedy.
Do I think it could have been done seriously? Yes! Of course:
The life of an orphan being bounced around between foster homes cant be an easy one. Now imagine that kid, who's been through all that crap, suddenly gets the powers of Superman!!! What would that kid really do? That would be my exploration of the character.
And I wouldn't forget that along with those powers comes "the WISDOM of Solomon". Which means that he wouldn't be acting a like a little brat drinking slurpees at 7-11 while he could be saving the world, or at least other orphans. He wouldn't go to a real estate agent and ask for "a lair". That's a funny scene, to be sure, but its not realistic. Its just there for the laughs.
I'd throw in humor, of course. But it wouldn't be an outright comedy, like this one is.
Still, I hope its good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 23:02:08 GMT
It always interests me to see how some superheroes are treated with respect by studios while others, like Ant Man, Guardians of the Galaxy and Shazam are given movies with so much self depreciating humor that they are basically spoofs and parodies of the source material... I wonder, not knowing anything about the comic character myself , could a more serious Shazam movie have worked? Or was the comedy route the right choice? I believe they went comedy for two reasons:
A) as a response to the criticisms that DCEU is too dark and B) because the latest version of the character at DC skews comedy too. Not this much! But it does skew comedy.
Do I think it could have been done seriously? Yes! Of course:
The life of an orphan being bounced around between foster homes cant be an easy one. Now imagine that kid, who's been through all that crap, suddenly gets the powers of Superman!!! What would that kid really do? That would be my exploration of the character.
And I wouldn't forget that along with those powers comes "the WISDOM of Solomon". Which means that he wouldn't be acting a like a little brat drinking slurpees at 7-11 while he could be saving the world, or at least other orphans. He wouldn't go to a real estate agent and ask for "a lair". That's a funny scene, to be sure, but its not realistic. Its just there for the laughs.
I'd throw in humor, of course. But it wouldn't be an outright comedy, like this one is.
Still, I hope its good.
Good points. As I said, I have literally no familiarity with the comic book version of the character, so I wasn't sure how accurate it was. Do the older Shazam comics skew comedy? Or do they play the character completely straight?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 22, 2019 23:18:56 GMT
I believe they went comedy for two reasons:
A) as a response to the criticisms that DCEU is too dark and B) because the latest version of the character at DC skews comedy too. Not this much! But it does skew comedy.
Do I think it could have been done seriously? Yes! Of course:
The life of an orphan being bounced around between foster homes cant be an easy one. Now imagine that kid, who's been through all that crap, suddenly gets the powers of Superman!!! What would that kid really do? That would be my exploration of the character.
And I wouldn't forget that along with those powers comes "the WISDOM of Solomon". Which means that he wouldn't be acting a like a little brat drinking slurpees at 7-11 while he could be saving the world, or at least other orphans. He wouldn't go to a real estate agent and ask for "a lair". That's a funny scene, to be sure, but its not realistic. Its just there for the laughs.
I'd throw in humor, of course. But it wouldn't be an outright comedy, like this one is.
Still, I hope its good.
Good points. As I said, I have literally no familiarity with the comic book version of the character, so I wasn't sure how accurate it was. Do the older Shazam comics skew comedy? Or do they play the character completely straight? Well, there have been four phases of the character:
Phase 1: The original run - There he was the "straight man" in a somewhat wacky world of comics. But that's how comics were done then. Then DC sued them and got them to stop running the comic.
Phase 2: The first DC run - After DC sued them to get them to stop running the comic, DC bought the character and started running the comic up again! LOL! This was pretty much the same as phase 1.
Phase 3: The 80s! They did a serious version of the character (Legend of Shazam!) and that version bounced around a bit in one ongoing series and various mini-series.
Phase 4: The current version (officially taking the name Shazam! once and for all [as opposed to Captain Marvel]), is kind've like the movie we're getting, but not that much of a comedy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 23:24:56 GMT
Good points. As I said, I have literally no familiarity with the comic book version of the character, so I wasn't sure how accurate it was. Do the older Shazam comics skew comedy? Or do they play the character completely straight? Well, there have been four phases of the character:
Phase 1: The original run - There he was the "straight man" in a somewhat wacky world of comics. But that's how comics were done then. Then DC sued them and got them to stop running the comic.
Phase 2: The first DC run - After DC sued them to get them to stop running the comic, DC bought the character and started running the comic up again! LOL! This was pretty much the same as phase 1.
Phase 3: The 80s! They did a serious version of the character (Legend of Shazam!) and that version bounced around a bit in one ongoing series and various mini-series.
Phase 4: The current version (officially taking the name Shazam! once and for all [as opposed to Captain Marvel]), is kind've like the movie we're getting, but not that much of a comedy.
Interesting. Thanks for the info! I wonder if the ads are playing up the humor or if they really reflect the actual tone/content. I admit, until recently I had no interest in seeing this... But I'm such a sucker for comic book movies that I will probably end up going.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 22, 2019 23:27:39 GMT
Well, there have been four phases of the character:
Phase 1: The original run - There he was the "straight man" in a somewhat wacky world of comics. But that's how comics were done then. Then DC sued them and got them to stop running the comic.
Phase 2: The first DC run - After DC sued them to get them to stop running the comic, DC bought the character and started running the comic up again! LOL! This was pretty much the same as phase 1.
Phase 3: The 80s! They did a serious version of the character (Legend of Shazam!) and that version bounced around a bit in one ongoing series and various mini-series.
Phase 4: The current version (officially taking the name Shazam! once and for all [as opposed to Captain Marvel]), is kind've like the movie we're getting, but not that much of a comedy.
Interesting. Thanks for the info! I wonder if the ads are playing up the humor or if they really reflect the actual tone/content. I admit, until recently I had no interest in seeing this... But I'm such a sucker for comic book movies that I will probably end up going. Oh, I wouldn't miss it! LOL
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jan 22, 2019 23:39:57 GMT
It could have been but, I don't see the harm in this approach even if I disagree with it vehemently.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 1:59:55 GMT
It could have been but, I don't see the harm in this approach even if I disagree with it vehemently. Interesting. Would you care to elaborate? Do you think it's a disservice to the source material?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jan 23, 2019 3:21:18 GMT
It could have been but, I don't see the harm in this approach even if I disagree with it vehemently. Interesting. Would you care to elaborate? Do you think it's a disservice to the source material? I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a disservice to the source material --- that sounds a bit dogmatic. It's a creative direction that has a fairly high likelihood of being commercially successful. I get why they chose it. I disagree with it but, that's no reason to tear it down. Shazam is a character that could be played for laughs or made out to be ultra-serious. It could honestly work either way. In many ways, I saw Shazam as an opportunity for WB/DC to redeem Superman - same powerset but none of the baggage. Shazam wouldn't be saddled with feelings of alienation or ambivalence. At heart, Billy Batson is an optimist. He is also naive but, not to the point of being a beer-craving imbecile. Billy has always struck me as a kid who was forced by circumstance to grow up faster than kids his age and, take on adult responsibilities. I was hoping for a more reverent tone for this character. Shazam does what he does perfectly. He should be so fast it feels like teleportation and not a physical movement. His strength should be used almost effortlessly, no grunts of exertion or pained expressions - he should be all eerie smiles as bones crack and brick walls are reduced to a fine mist with a single punch. And the lightning, ... It should be majestic and not like 1980s-style force lightning. When he calls it, it should glass the surface he's standing on. Shazam is a being of magic, not science. His powers should feel like magic. I get what they're doing but, honestly, the more I see of it, the more it feels like they took the path of least resistance for the character. Shazam isn't an inherently silly concept like a man who shrinks down to the size of an insect or a talking Raccoon might be considered (to most). In the past, DC has toyed with the idea that Batson and Marvel are two different entities. Batson is the earnest man-child (not in the derogatory sense) who calls the shots while Captain Marvel is the magical creature who is at his command. I like that approach better than Captain Marvel as a literal overgrown child. The magical being should be an amplification of the human beings attributes (thus the dictatorial Teth-Adam is transformed into the megalomaniacal Black Adam).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 5:27:25 GMT
Interesting. Would you care to elaborate? Do you think it's a disservice to the source material? I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a disservice to the source material --- that sounds a bit dogmatic. It's a creative direction that has a fairly high likelihood of being commercially successful. I get why they chose it. I disagree with it but, that's no reason to tear it down. Shazam is a character that could be played for laughs or made out to be ultra-serious. It could honestly work either way. In many ways, I saw Shazam as an opportunity for WB/DC to redeem Superman - same powerset but none of the baggage. Shazam wouldn't be saddled with feelings of alienation or ambivalence. At heart, Billy Batson is an optimist. He is also naive but, not to the point of being a beer-craving imbecile. Billy has always struck me as a kid who was forced by circumstance to grow up faster than kids his age and, take on adult responsibilities. I was hoping for a more reverent tone for this character. Shazam does what he does perfectly. He should be so fast it feels like teleportation and not a physical movement. His strength should be used almost effortlessly, no grunts of exertion or pained expressions - he should be all eerie smiles as bones crack and brick walls are reduced to a fine mist with a single punch. And the lightning, ... It should be majestic and not like 1980s-style force lightning. When he calls it, it should glass the surface he's standing on. Shazam is a being of magic, not science. His powers should feel like magic. I get what they're doing but, honestly, the more I see of it, the more it feels like they took the path of least resistance for the character. Shazam isn't an inherently silly concept like a man who shrinks down to the size of an insect or a talking Raccoon might be considered (to most). In the past, DC has toyed with the idea that Batson and Marvel are two different entities. Batson is the earnest man-child (not in the derogatory sense) who calls the shots while Captain Marvel is the magical creature who is at his command. I like that approach better than Captain Marvel as a literal overgrown child. The magical being should be an amplification of the human beings attributes (thus the dictatorial Teth-Adam is transformed into the megalomaniacal Black Adam). I appreciate the reply, Skull Man. As always, your answer was eloquent and insightful. While I have no attachment to the character myself, you basically confirmed what I suspected: that DC was missing an oppertunity to adapt a more nuanced version of a decades old character by instead committing so whole heartedly to this lighter, goofier approach. I always get annoyed at this modern trend where movies are constantly winking at the audience and being so aggressively self aware. Shazam seems to be doubling down on this trend.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jan 23, 2019 5:48:08 GMT
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a disservice to the source material --- that sounds a bit dogmatic. It's a creative direction that has a fairly high likelihood of being commercially successful. I get why they chose it. I disagree with it but, that's no reason to tear it down. Shazam is a character that could be played for laughs or made out to be ultra-serious. It could honestly work either way. In many ways, I saw Shazam as an opportunity for WB/DC to redeem Superman - same powerset but none of the baggage. Shazam wouldn't be saddled with feelings of alienation or ambivalence. At heart, Billy Batson is an optimist. He is also naive but, not to the point of being a beer-craving imbecile. Billy has always struck me as a kid who was forced by circumstance to grow up faster than kids his age and, take on adult responsibilities. I was hoping for a more reverent tone for this character. Shazam does what he does perfectly. He should be so fast it feels like teleportation and not a physical movement. His strength should be used almost effortlessly, no grunts of exertion or pained expressions - he should be all eerie smiles as bones crack and brick walls are reduced to a fine mist with a single punch. And the lightning, ... It should be majestic and not like 1980s-style force lightning. When he calls it, it should glass the surface he's standing on. Shazam is a being of magic, not science. His powers should feel like magic. I get what they're doing but, honestly, the more I see of it, the more it feels like they took the path of least resistance for the character. Shazam isn't an inherently silly concept like a man who shrinks down to the size of an insect or a talking Raccoon might be considered (to most). In the past, DC has toyed with the idea that Batson and Marvel are two different entities. Batson is the earnest man-child (not in the derogatory sense) who calls the shots while Captain Marvel is the magical creature who is at his command. I like that approach better than Captain Marvel as a literal overgrown child. The magical being should be an amplification of the human beings attributes (thus the dictatorial Teth-Adam is transformed into the megalomaniacal Black Adam). I appreciate the reply, Skull Man. As always, your answer was eloquent and insightful. While I have no attachment to the character myself, you basically confirmed what I suspected: that DC was missing an oppertunity to adapt a more nuanced version of a decades old character by instead committing so whole heartedly to this lighter, goofier approach. I always get annoyed at this modern trend where movies are constantly winking at the audience and being so aggressively self aware. Shazam seems to be doubling down on this trend. It looks like they are adapting the more recent New 52 Shazam and, sidestepping The Power of Shazam! graphic novel by Jerry Ordway. It's a missed opportunity for sure. The net effect of their creative choices for me is my utter indifference to the movie. I could take it or leave it on opening night. I will say this definitively though, based on what I've seen so far, Djimon Hounsou looks and sounds like he's headed for Razzie territory. He sounds like an angry, African football coach and, not an ancient Wizard.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 7:55:01 GMT
I appreciate the reply, Skull Man. As always, your answer was eloquent and insightful. While I have no attachment to the character myself, you basically confirmed what I suspected: that DC was missing an oppertunity to adapt a more nuanced version of a decades old character by instead committing so whole heartedly to this lighter, goofier approach. I always get annoyed at this modern trend where movies are constantly winking at the audience and being so aggressively self aware. Shazam seems to be doubling down on this trend. It looks like they are adapting the more recent New 52 Shazam and, sidestepping The Power of Shazam! graphic novel by Jerry Ordway. It's a missed opportunity for sure. The net effect of their creative choices for me is my utter indifference to the movie. I could take it or leave it on opening night. I will say this definitively though, based on what I've seen so far, Djimon Hounsou looks and sounds like he's headed for Razzie territory. He sounds like an angry, African football coach and, not an ancient Wizard. I'm pretty sure the guy who wrote a lot of those New 52 comics is in charge of the creative decisions for the DCU now. Geof Johns, I think his name is. I've never read any of those so I can't judge one way or the other, but that seems to be their template.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 23, 2019 17:42:23 GMT
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a disservice to the source material --- that sounds a bit dogmatic. It's a creative direction that has a fairly high likelihood of being commercially successful. I get why they chose it. I disagree with it but, that's no reason to tear it down. Shazam is a character that could be played for laughs or made out to be ultra-serious. It could honestly work either way. In many ways, I saw Shazam as an opportunity for WB/DC to redeem Superman - same powerset but none of the baggage. Shazam wouldn't be saddled with feelings of alienation or ambivalence. At heart, Billy Batson is an optimist. He is also naive but, not to the point of being a beer-craving imbecile. Billy has always struck me as a kid who was forced by circumstance to grow up faster than kids his age and, take on adult responsibilities. I was hoping for a more reverent tone for this character. Shazam does what he does perfectly. He should be so fast it feels like teleportation and not a physical movement. His strength should be used almost effortlessly, no grunts of exertion or pained expressions - he should be all eerie smiles as bones crack and brick walls are reduced to a fine mist with a single punch. And the lightning, ... It should be majestic and not like 1980s-style force lightning. When he calls it, it should glass the surface he's standing on. Shazam is a being of magic, not science. His powers should feel like magic. I get what they're doing but, honestly, the more I see of it, the more it feels like they took the path of least resistance for the character. Shazam isn't an inherently silly concept like a man who shrinks down to the size of an insect or a talking Raccoon might be considered (to most). In the past, DC has toyed with the idea that Batson and Marvel are two different entities. Batson is the earnest man-child (not in the derogatory sense) who calls the shots while Captain Marvel is the magical creature who is at his command. I like that approach better than Captain Marvel as a literal overgrown child. The magical being should be an amplification of the human beings attributes (thus the dictatorial Teth-Adam is transformed into the megalomaniacal Black Adam). I appreciate the reply, Skull Man. As always, your answer was eloquent and insightful. While I have no attachment to the character myself, you basically confirmed what I suspected: that DC was missing an oppertunity to adapt a more nuanced version of a decades old character by instead committing so whole heartedly to this lighter, goofier approach. I always get annoyed at this modern trend where movies are constantly winking at the audience and being so aggressively self aware. Shazam seems to be doubling down on this trend.You saying you don't..
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Post by ThatGuy on Jan 23, 2019 22:54:53 GMT
It always interests me to see how some superheroes are treated with respect by studios while others, like Ant Man, Guardians of the Galaxy and Shazam are given movies with so much self depreciating humor that they are basically spoofs and parodies of the source material... I wonder, not knowing anything about the comic character myself , could a more serious Shazam movie have worked? Or was the comedy route the right choice? I wouldn't say those characters had self-deprecating humor. They just had comedy (haven't seen Shazam yet so I don't know). Self-deprecating would be more like X-men telling the audience how stupid it was. Apocalypse did the same thing, but with movies in the series.
Could a serious Shazam! movie have worked? Sure. Maybe if you make Billy more tortured and/or made Shazam! a different personality. But then he'd be more like Superman. Doing that they might as well made another Superman movie.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jan 23, 2019 22:58:03 GMT
It always interests me to see how some superheroes are treated with respect by studios while others, like Ant Man, Guardians of the Galaxy and Shazam are given movies with so much self depreciating humor that they are basically spoofs and parodies of the source material... I wonder, not knowing anything about the comic character myself , could a more serious Shazam movie have worked? Or was the comedy route the right choice? I believe they went comedy for two reasons:
A) as a response to the criticisms that DCEU is too dark and B) because the latest version of the character at DC skews comedy too. Not this much! But it does skew comedy.
Do I think it could have been done seriously? Yes! Of course:
The life of an orphan being bounced around between foster homes cant be an easy one. Now imagine that kid, who's been through all that crap, suddenly gets the powers of Superman!!! What would that kid really do? That would be my exploration of the character.
And I wouldn't forget that along with those powers comes "the WISDOM of Solomon". Which means that he wouldn't be acting a like a little brat drinking slurpees at 7-11 while he could be saving the world, or at least other orphans. He wouldn't go to a real estate agent and ask for "a lair". That's a funny scene, to be sure, but its not realistic. Its just there for the laughs.
I'd throw in humor, of course. But it wouldn't be an outright comedy, like this one is.
Still, I hope its good.
Having great wisdom doesn't mean you are a mature person. You can have great wisdom and still act like a brat.
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