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Post by hobowar on Feb 3, 2019 1:11:01 GMT
Wonder Woman wasn't as good as First Avenger. Cap managed like 5 guys in the bar recruiting scene to WW's 2, was it? Diana was on a horse in the comparable shot to Cap on a motocycle barreling after Nazis Cap's death scene with Peggy is still 99 times more emotional than Diana & Steve Trevor's. Don't get me started on Steve making Diana a woman. Wonder woman is a much better movie than First Avenger. Cap's 1st appearance in costume in public - dancing on stage with cheerleaders for Stan Lee Wonder Woman's 1st appearance in costume in public - crosses No Man's Land, deflects hundreds of bullets from machine guns, and liberates a town from German soldiers. End of debate.![](https://s26.postimg.cc/7r8xnn0k9/roll.gif)
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 3, 2019 1:18:07 GMT
My cat's breath smells like cat food. My cat's name is Mittens So basically, you were smitten by a kitten named Mitten?
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Post by merh on Feb 3, 2019 19:27:09 GMT
Cats purr at a frequency that promotes healing of bones & tissue. When kitty lies on you purring it helps you. Got stuck in my head for an hour, damn you. Played it for my sister & it got stuck in her head as well. Infectious thing
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Post by merh on Feb 3, 2019 19:46:09 GMT
Wonder Woman wasn't as good as First Avenger. Cap managed like 5 guys in the bar recruiting scene to WW's 2, was it? Diana was on a horse in the comparable shot to Cap on a motocycle barreling after Nazis Cap's death scene with Peggy is still 99 times more emotional than Diana & Steve Trevor's. Don't get me started on Steve making Diana a woman. Wonder woman is a much better movie than First Avenger. Cap's 1st appearance in costume in public - dancing on stage with cheerleaders for Stan Lee Wonder Woman's 1st appearance in costume in public - crosses No Man's Land, deflects hundreds of bullets from machine guns, and liberates a town from German soldiers. End of debate. Cap's first action as Cap is to chase down the assassin that killed Dr Erskine, saving a boy in the process. What movie did you watch? Stan Lee's Captain America First Avenger cameo came after he rescued Bucky & all the other soldiers from Red Skull. Lee was the General in the audience at the award ceremony Cap didn't show up for. The costume was made to wear on stage to sell war bonds to fund the war effort, hardly a poor cause, just not what Cap was meant for. Hell, we saw one senator was Hydra. For all we know the senator who relegated Cap to selling War Bonds was also Hydra. Not as bad as the guy who supported Diana being Ares. Or all the pointless moves Diana made against people she thought were Ares but werent
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Post by merh on Feb 3, 2019 19:49:13 GMT
My cat's breath smells like cat food. My cat's name is Mittens The cat in my avatar is Loki The cat in my avatar at IMDb was Thor. Since my kid moved to her own place, she left me with her cats Illidan & Kili.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 3, 2019 20:27:44 GMT
Wonder woman is a much better movie than First Avenger. Cap's 1st appearance in costume in public - dancing on stage with cheerleaders for Stan Lee Wonder Woman's 1st appearance in costume in public - crosses No Man's Land, deflects hundreds of bullets from machine guns, and liberates a town from German soldiers. End of debate. Cap's first action as Cap is to chase down the assassin that killed Dr Erskine, saving a boy in the process. What movie did you watch? Stan Lee's Captain America First Avenger cameo came after he rescued Bucky & all the other soldiers from Red Skull. Lee was the General in the audience at the award ceremony Cap didn't show up for. The costume was made to wear on stage to sell war bonds to fund the war effort, hardly a poor cause, just not what Cap was meant for. Hell, we saw one senator was Hydra. For all we know the senator who relegated Cap to selling War Bonds was also Hydra. Not as bad as the guy who supported Diana being Ares. Or all the pointless moves Diana made against people she thought were Ares but werent No, Cap's 1st action wasn't chasing down an assassin. He had no costume and no sield yet It would be lile saying Wonder Woman's 1st action was resuing Steve Trevor when his plane crashed into the water. Cap's 1st action in costume was dancing on stage with cheerleaders.Wonder Woman's 1st action was crossing No Man's Land, deflecting hindreds of bullets from machine guns, and liberating atown fron German soldiers. Wonder Woman wins.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 22:03:04 GMT
The cat in my avatar is Loki The cat in my avatar at IMDb was Thor. Since my kid moved to her own place, she left me with her cats Illidan & Kili. That's awesome. Do Loki and Thor get along? Or do they battle for the throne of Asgard, a.k.a your house?
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Feb 3, 2019 22:03:43 GMT
I really believe that the movie will be great, but this tells me nothing. Every single film gets early reviews like this. I remember that Batman vs. Superman was going to change filmmaking because it was so great. That was just some random dude on Reddit.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 3, 2019 22:06:36 GMT
The cat in my avatar is Loki The cat in my avatar at IMDb was Thor. Since my kid moved to her own place, she left me with her cats Illidan & Kili. That's awesome. Do Loki and Thor get along? Or do they battle for the throne of Asgard, a.k.a your house? KA-POW!
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 4, 2019 1:03:56 GMT
Got stuck in my head for an hour, damn you. Played it for my sister & it got stuck in her head as well. Infectious thing Yeah, it's my favorite version of that song. She's good!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 18:52:05 GMT
I’m boycotting every film with cats until they complete the Bill Murray Garfield trilogy
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Post by merh on Feb 4, 2019 21:55:56 GMT
The cat in my avatar is Loki The cat in my avatar at IMDb was Thor. Since my kid moved to her own place, she left me with her cats Illidan & Kili. That's awesome. Do Loki and Thor get along? Or do they battle for the throne of Asgard, a.k.a your house? They used to get along fairly well, but now every time Thor sees Loki, he attacks her. She is like 1/3 smaller than he is. He is huge-a Maine Coon Cat easily 25lbs. He also does not get along with Kili (named for the LOTR dwarf) even though they are related (his sister's kitten.) She is also huge, but short haired & a tuxedo (black with white feet & tummy & neck. She has a black splotch like a goatee, but it's off-center). She is probably 5-8 lbs lighter than Thor so the dwarf name never felt right until we saw Infinity War. She must be that sort of dwarf. I have always told my kid she looks like Lucifer from Cinderella-looks evil but she is a love bug except to every other cat in the house. But as the 2 biggest cats in the house, they constantly stand off, trying to look bigger. This power struggle seems to have led to Loki's falling from Thor's good graces. They all sleep like 3 feet apart minimum. No cuddling.
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Post by merh on Feb 4, 2019 21:58:19 GMT
I’m boycotting every film with cats until they complete the Bill Murray Garfield trilogy No Captain Marvel? Does that cover films you've seen like MiB?
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Post by merh on Feb 4, 2019 22:04:07 GMT
Cap's first action as Cap is to chase down the assassin that killed Dr Erskine, saving a boy in the process. What movie did you watch? Stan Lee's Captain America First Avenger cameo came after he rescued Bucky & all the other soldiers from Red Skull. Lee was the General in the audience at the award ceremony Cap didn't show up for. The costume was made to wear on stage to sell war bonds to fund the war effort, hardly a poor cause, just not what Cap was meant for. Hell, we saw one senator was Hydra. For all we know the senator who relegated Cap to selling War Bonds was also Hydra. Not as bad as the guy who supported Diana being Ares. Or all the pointless moves Diana made against people she thought were Ares but werent No, Cap's 1st action wasn't chasing down an assassin. He had no costume and no sield yet It would be lile saying Wonder Woman's 1st action was resuing Steve Trevor when his plane crashed into the water. Cap's 1st action in costume was dancing on stage with cheerleaders.Wonder Woman's 1st action was crossing No Man's Land, deflecting hindreds of bullets from machine guns, and liberating atown fron German soldiers. Wonder Woman wins. He was STILL raising money pushing War Bonds to fund the war effort. Remember the bullet in the barrel of your best guy's gun or however it was said? Arguably saving thousands of soldiers. Remember it was stated Bond sales went up after each of his shows? Lots of bullets for those guns.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 23:11:12 GMT
No, Cap's 1st action wasn't chasing down an assassin. He had no costume and no sield yet It would be lile saying Wonder Woman's 1st action was resuing Steve Trevor when his plane crashed into the water. Cap's 1st action in costume was dancing on stage with cheerleaders.Wonder Woman's 1st action was crossing No Man's Land, deflecting hindreds of bullets from machine guns, and liberating atown fron German soldiers. Wonder Woman wins. He was STILL raising money pushing War Bonds to fund the war effort. Remember the bullet in the barrel of your best guy's gun or however it was said? Arguably saving thousands of soldiers. Remember it was stated Bond sales went up after each of his shows? Lots of bullets for those guns. Even dancing with cheerleaders was something he did for his country. He broke rank and went to save the others because he could do more. That's something that's always defined his character for me. Even when he was small, he just wouldn't stop until his outside matched his inside.
I liked Wonder Woman a lot. Where Captain America gets the edge for me is every movie elevates his character. I'm well past the point where The First Avenger exists in a vacuum. The First Avenger might be one movie but it's just the beginning of his story, so while I already liked it before, it just kept getting better and better which each movie. Every additional movie makes more sense of the first one and it just goes on and on.
Wonder Woman doesn't have the body of work that lets the first one get better and better. It might, but right now, it just lacks sequels and the screen time that Chris Evans has.
I think Wonder Woman and the Steve Trevor story was supposed to be a WWII story, but they changed it so there can be some ambiguity about good and evil, as opposed to the Nazis, which are more/less universally reviled. Steve Trevor was probably right about there not being just one guy who was responsible for it all; if it were WWII, that one guy would be Hitler.
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Post by merh on Feb 5, 2019 3:15:47 GMT
He was STILL raising money pushing War Bonds to fund the war effort. Remember the bullet in the barrel of your best guy's gun or however it was said? Arguably saving thousands of soldiers. Remember it was stated Bond sales went up after each of his shows? Lots of bullets for those guns. Even dancing with cheerleaders was something he did for his country. He broke rank and went to save the others because he could do more. That's something that's always defined his character for me. Even when he was small, he just wouldn't stop until his outside matched his inside.
I liked Wonder Woman a lot. Where Captain America gets the edge for me is every movie elevates his character. I'm well past the point where The First Avenger exists in a vacuum. The First Avenger might be one movie but it's just the beginning of his story, so while I already liked it before, it just kept getting better and better which each movie. Every additional movie makes more sense of the first one and it just goes on and on.
Wonder Woman doesn't have the body of work that lets the first one get better and better. It might, but right now, it just lacks sequels and the screen time that Chris Evans has.
I think Wonder Woman and the Steve Trevor story was supposed to be a WWII story, but they changed it so there can be some ambiguity about good and evil, as opposed to the Nazis, which are more/less universally reviled. Steve Trevor was probably right about there not being just one guy who was responsible for it all; if it were WWII, that one guy would be Hitler. I found WW EXTREMELY similar to First Avenger. As I said, making the team arrangement in the bar like Steve & the Howling Commandos. A scene of her riding the horse also seem pulled exactly from the shot of Cap on the motorcycle. If Trevor had to die, they should have done something other than the same thing we had in First Avenger-Peggy/Diana watching as the blip-radio signal/plane ended. I never much cared about Iron Man so casting RDJ who I did like was a plus. That line in Avengers where Tony tells Steve everything special about him came out of a test tube killed that. Tony is a spoiled brat who doesn't comprehend true sacrifice or maturity. Much of the crap that has happened in this story is Tony's fault. He created Ultron because he didn't want to lose any more of his "things" like Phil Coulson. The Accords is his solution to his own inability to stop being Iron Man which has destroyed his relationship with Pepper. He can (in theory) only go into action when ordered to, removing the power to act from himself. (Granted, it is doubtful he could adhere to this. Tony is, in a nutshell, all about him. Everything is his to play with) The bit with the shield is more dog in the manger. It does Tony no good & we know he had major issues with his dad so why does he care if a friend of his dad's keeps a gift? It is a sign of immaturity that Tony is jealous of the relationship Steve had with Howard. It is a sign of Steve's maturity that he can abandon that gift from his friend. He can find something else to work. Not as well, but Steve is skilled enough to cope with it. On top of that, WW did the fish out of water we saw with Thor, yet Thor in 3 days acclimatized far better than Diana does. Diana retains a level of childlike immaturity into the final battle. Actually I saw a comparison once of Tony Stark to Bruce Wayne which worked pretty well. Bruce is, in his way, as insecure as Tony. Its why he needs to be able to take down all of his teammates. He lacks faith in others
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 0:42:29 GMT
Even dancing with cheerleaders was something he did for his country. He broke rank and went to save the others because he could do more. That's something that's always defined his character for me. Even when he was small, he just wouldn't stop until his outside matched his inside.
I liked Wonder Woman a lot. Where Captain America gets the edge for me is every movie elevates his character. I'm well past the point where The First Avenger exists in a vacuum. The First Avenger might be one movie but it's just the beginning of his story, so while I already liked it before, it just kept getting better and better which each movie. Every additional movie makes more sense of the first one and it just goes on and on.
Wonder Woman doesn't have the body of work that lets the first one get better and better. It might, but right now, it just lacks sequels and the screen time that Chris Evans has.
I think Wonder Woman and the Steve Trevor story was supposed to be a WWII story, but they changed it so there can be some ambiguity about good and evil, as opposed to the Nazis, which are more/less universally reviled. Steve Trevor was probably right about there not being just one guy who was responsible for it all; if it were WWII, that one guy would be Hitler. I found WW EXTREMELY similar to First Avenger. As I said, making the team arrangement in the bar like Steve & the Howling Commandos. A scene of her riding the horse also seem pulled exactly from the shot of Cap on the motorcycle. If Trevor had to die, they should have done something other than the same thing we had in First Avenger-Peggy/Diana watching as the blip-radio signal/plane ended. I never much cared about Iron Man so casting RDJ who I did like was a plus. That line in Avengers where Tony tells Steve everything special about him came out of a test tube killed that. Tony is a spoiled brat who doesn't comprehend true sacrifice or maturity. Much of the crap that has happened in this story is Tony's fault. He created Ultron because he didn't want to lose any more of his "things" like Phil Coulson. The Accords is his solution to his own inability to stop being Iron Man which has destroyed his relationship with Pepper. He can (in theory) only go into action when ordered to, removing the power to act from himself. (Granted, it is doubtful he could adhere to this. Tony is, in a nutshell, all about him. Everything is his to play with) The bit with the shield is more dog in the manger. It does Tony no good & we know he had major issues with his dad so why does he care if a friend of his dad's keeps a gift? It is a sign of immaturity that Tony is jealous of the relationship Steve had with Howard. It is a sign of Steve's maturity that he can abandon that gift from his friend. He can find something else to work. Not as well, but Steve is skilled enough to cope with it. On top of that, WW did the fish out of water we saw with Thor, yet Thor in 3 days acclimatized far better than Diana does. Diana retains a level of childlike immaturity into the final battle. Actually I saw a comparison once of Tony Stark to Bruce Wayne which worked pretty well. Bruce is, in his way, as insecure as Tony. Its why he needs to be able to take down all of his teammates. He lacks faith in others Iron Man and Batman works. Batman's final act in The Dark Knight involved going almost full Patriot Act to find Joker. Given the demise of his parents, he knows full well the rules are suggestive. For some, the line in the sand is an aesthetic choice and just that, a line. A boundary drawn by some kind of honor system that Batman knows nobody actually has to observe. Iron Man is more/less there. His arc is really 180 since the beginning and I think, like Batman, not only does he see laws, rules and lines in the sand as suggestive, he figures himself strong enough to carry the burden of making the difficult decisions that nobody really asked him to.
He's still awesome, but he seems almost too willing to step into any situation and say he should have been there. It's his fault. He puts too much on his own plate, and tows the line between burdening himself with protecting people and returning to his demons. Its ironic because he's never been in war, at least not in the conventional sense like Captain America, but he seems more unwilling to leave the battle behind so he brings it everywhere. He has a kind of PTSD from New York and lives with knowing full-scale invasion could happen any time, ever. No grace period, no holding out for Saturday or the Superbowl; Thanos and company can drop in any time and the wait is almost worse.
That's what I mostly get from Iron Man as played by Downy Jr. I wasn't much involved with Iron Man before. I've only seen him a few times in cartoons, just enough to know the basics: he's rich, he has a armored suit, he's an industrialist, has a rival industrialist who's always just behind him, he has a secretary Pepper Potts (who I imagined looking more like the secretary from Ghostbusters than Gwyneth Paltrow) and his big bad is the Mandarin. It's fine background material but Robert Downy Jr. made me invested in Iron Man in ways I've never been before. I think Iron Man grew up fast after his parents died, and wrestles with being mature because he has to and fighting himself because he wasn't ready. He is just like his armor suggests; a shell concealing a soft interior putting up a tough front. His suit is an extension of the wall he puts around himself. The best characters (I think) always have a great relationship with their abilities/powers as a metaphor.
Captain America is painstakingly honest. Somebody like Stark, his near ideal opposite, probably thinks Rogers is stupid because Rogers believes in structure, codes, honor, and would go back for a fallen soldier at his own expense. He would do thinks that Stark would find limiting because of his powers, or lack thereof, but Rogers is so strong that he uses his abilities to make otherwise naive choices work. I think Stark's jealous and figures Rogers does things nobody else in their right mind would do, things that involve trust and the benefit of the doubt. But those are Steve's burdens to bear and I don't think Stark gives him that kind of credit. If there's one thing Stark can almost always rely on to stick it to Rogers, it's that Stark's a genius and Rogers, despite it all, probably has a barely high school graduate level education. And despite that, Stark feels so alone that he even resents that Rogers is a real fish out of water and copes with it better than Stark. Part of me thinks Tony goes out of his way to fight to make up for lost time being beyond reproach as a wealthy industrialist; soul of a fighter whose life story is closer to Charles Foster Kane than somebody who really had to make themselves because they had no other choice.
Either way, about Wonder Woman, I definitely agree her movie was very similar to Captain America. He has the luxury of having his future movies going back and making his previous ones better and better; the more he does onscreen, the more sense everything he did in the past continues to make. The casting choice of Gal Gadot worked for me. I think she's as close to casting a real life Goddess as casting Chris Hemsworth as Thor. In Wonder Woman, I liked her taking the stuffy old men in that room to task. Not only did she translate what none of them could, but the text she translated was also written by a woman. So those men were bested by a woman twice: once for Dr. Poison's research and for Wonder Woman translating it, but their egos would never allow them to believe they were bested twice by a woman. That's real privilege; they can't take the hint.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Feb 7, 2019 0:53:01 GMT
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Post by darkpast on Feb 8, 2019 17:39:47 GMT
the film is already rated, i don't think they are doing test screenings anymore
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Post by merh on Feb 11, 2019 1:43:28 GMT
I found WW EXTREMELY similar to First Avenger. As I said, making the team arrangement in the bar like Steve & the Howling Commandos. A scene of her riding the horse also seem pulled exactly from the shot of Cap on the motorcycle. If Trevor had to die, they should have done something other than the same thing we had in First Avenger-Peggy/Diana watching as the blip-radio signal/plane ended. I never much cared about Iron Man so casting RDJ who I did like was a plus. That line in Avengers where Tony tells Steve everything special about him came out of a test tube killed that. Tony is a spoiled brat who doesn't comprehend true sacrifice or maturity. Much of the crap that has happened in this story is Tony's fault. He created Ultron because he didn't want to lose any more of his "things" like Phil Coulson. The Accords is his solution to his own inability to stop being Iron Man which has destroyed his relationship with Pepper. He can (in theory) only go into action when ordered to, removing the power to act from himself. (Granted, it is doubtful he could adhere to this. Tony is, in a nutshell, all about him. Everything is his to play with) The bit with the shield is more dog in the manger. It does Tony no good & we know he had major issues with his dad so why does he care if a friend of his dad's keeps a gift? It is a sign of immaturity that Tony is jealous of the relationship Steve had with Howard. It is a sign of Steve's maturity that he can abandon that gift from his friend. He can find something else to work. Not as well, but Steve is skilled enough to cope with it. On top of that, WW did the fish out of water we saw with Thor, yet Thor in 3 days acclimatized far better than Diana does. Diana retains a level of childlike immaturity into the final battle. Actually I saw a comparison once of Tony Stark to Bruce Wayne which worked pretty well. Bruce is, in his way, as insecure as Tony. Its why he needs to be able to take down all of his teammates. He lacks faith in others Iron Man and Batman works. Batman's final act in The Dark Knight involved going almost full Patriot Act to find Joker. Given the demise of his parents, he knows full well the rules are suggestive. For some, the line in the sand is an aesthetic choice and just that, a line. A boundary drawn by some kind of honor system that Batman knows nobody actually has to observe. Iron Man is more/less there. His arc is really 180 since the beginning and I think, like Batman, not only does he see laws, rules and lines in the sand as suggestive, he figures himself strong enough to carry the burden of making the difficult decisions that nobody really asked him to. My kid was 10 when my husband died. There is a loss of security. A parent is supposed to protect the child. Remember the bit in Jurassic Park where the attorney left the kid & they panicked? My mom said my sister & I would be playing outside & just randomly come in to check that she was there. So Tony & Bruce lost their security blanket. Their safe place. It's not like they ended up on the streets, but the loss of routine, of same safe world hurt both. Bats lacks faith in others. Can't believe others can be trusted to be there when needed. Tony is so afraid to lose anyone, he believes he must bubble wrap the world do his buddies dont have to risk their lives protecting it. His great genius must be able to fix the problem of him losing his new family like he lost his parents He thought his dad hated him, remember? He thought dad sending him away to schools to feed his mind was his dad's way to get rid of Tony. Look at his reaction to Winter Soldier-killed his mom. Big raw ugly wound that never healed. But as Wanda said, Tony is like Ultron-neither can see the damage of their actions. I believe it was Whedon who said Stark sees the world as his plaything. If you matter to his world, then you belong to him. He maybe joked about Phil, but Coulson was HIS SHIELD contact. The face he could work with at SHIELD. Unlike Fury who was THE spy (his secrets have secrets), Coulson was more relatable. Coulson saved Pepper. Loki killed Tony's SHIELD agent. Because he lost his parents. These new friends have very dangerous jobs that could remove them from him Not to mention Tony may be jealous as hell of the friendship between Howard & Steve, but that made Steve the annoying older brother dad liked better, but still family. So Steve picking Bucky over Tony is a giant insult. Its like Pepper & Killian or when Happy was hurt. Pepper & Happy are Tony's. How could Pepper gush over Killian? How could Steve prefer Bucky? All I remember about pre-MCU is Tony had a bad heart the suit somehow helped. He was something of an ass & very famously Marvel did an alcohol story-1979's Demon in a Bottle. Sounds about right. I think my little SoCal elementary schoolgirl self couldn't relate to Stark so I only remember him in connection to Thor & Cap. I think it all boils down to Stark's daddy issues. His dad never shut up about Steve Rogers. The only comfort Tony had was he would never meet this too perfect hero But then he does. So he has to tear him down because he was everything Howard thought was ideal in a hero. Howard knew Steve was a GOOD man, better than Howard ever was. Better than Tony. Steve may not be a genius, but to his core he has more heart than either Stark Like Clark Kent. Good guys.
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