|
|
Post by Popeye Doyle on Feb 1, 2019 16:17:26 GMT
Please correct me if I'm missing something here - His plan begins in Cleveland to get that book from former Hydra goon. He frames Bucky for the UN bombing in Vienna to draw him out.. knowing it will create a division between Rogers and Stark? He kills and impersonates the doctor originally meant to evaluate Bucky. He He also has an EMP ready to use. Saying the magic words causes Bucky to go full Terminator mode and him to escape to Siberia. Later, he calls the hotel he was staying at just to have them discover the corpse in the bathtub. This information gets through to Stark, who realizes Rogers was probably right, and also travels to Siberia where Rogers and Barnes are. It's a good thing Tony got this info or he wouldn't have shown up. Finally, he reveals to Stark the footage showing Bucky killing Ma and Pa Stark in 1991. This of course leads to Steve and Tony bickering with each other.
Now, does this plan seem a bit too convoluted? Why not just mail the video tape to Tony or something? |
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 1, 2019 16:41:55 GMT
Please correct me if I'm missing something here - His plan begins in Cleveland to get that book from former Hydra goon. He frames Bucky for the UN bombing in Vienna to draw him out.. knowing it will create a division between Rogers and Stark? He kills and impersonates the doctor originally meant to evaluate Bucky. He He also has an EMP ready to use. Saying the magic words causes Bucky to go full Terminator mode and him to escape to Siberia. Later, he calls the hotel he was staying at just to have them discover the corpse in the bathtub. This information gets through to Stark, who realizes Rogers was probably right, and also travels to Siberia where Rogers and Barnes are. It's a good thing Tony got this info or he wouldn't have shown up. Finally, he reveals to Stark the footage showing Bucky killing Ma and Pa Stark in 1991. This of course leads to Steve and Tony bickering with each other.
Now, does this plan seem a bit too convoluted? Why not just mail the video tape to Tony or something? That's the real question. Also, why was there a random camera attached to a tree in the middle of nowhere in the first place? What is this, England? |
|
|
|
Post by politicidal on Feb 1, 2019 17:01:03 GMT
Zemo really wasn't necessary to the plot tbh. It'd had been cooler if he and Ross were operating together behind the scenes, taking advantage or exacerbating the growing schism between Stark and Rogers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Popeye Doyle on Feb 1, 2019 17:09:47 GMT
Zemo really wasn't necessary to the plot tbh. It'd had been cooler if he and Ross were operating together behind the scenes, taking advantage or exacerbating the growing schism between Stark and Rogers. And why couldn't he look like this? -
|
|
|
|
Post by politicidal on Feb 1, 2019 17:12:59 GMT
Good question. Even Crossbones despite limited screentime at least looked like Crossbones.
|
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 1, 2019 17:26:02 GMT
I don’t think it’s convoluted because it’s what needed to happen without oversimplifying it.
If cap had failed, Zemo still would have killed the super soldiers and hatched another revenge plan.
The part tht perturbed me is the notion that Stark would rage against Bucky despite knowing full well that he couldn’t control it.
The fight would have been better at the beginning instead of the end.
|
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Feb 1, 2019 17:58:32 GMT
Please correct me if I'm missing something here - His plan begins in Cleveland to get that book from former Hydra goon. He frames Bucky for the UN bombing in Vienna to draw him out.. knowing it will create a division between Rogers and Stark? He kills and impersonates the doctor originally meant to evaluate Bucky. He He also has an EMP ready to use. Saying the magic words causes Bucky to go full Terminator mode and him to escape to Siberia. Later, he calls the hotel he was staying at just to have them discover the corpse in the bathtub. This information gets through to Stark, who realizes Rogers was probably right, and also travels to Siberia where Rogers and Barnes are. It's a good thing Tony got this info or he wouldn't have shown up. Finally, he reveals to Stark the footage showing Bucky killing Ma and Pa Stark in 1991. This of course leads to Steve and Tony bickering with each other.
Now, does this plan seem a bit too convoluted? Why not just mail the video tape to Tony or something? Because that gives Tony a chance to cool off before confronting Steve about it. Plus, who's to say Tony knew who the Winter Soldier was at the time or that Steve told him it was Bucky. He needed all the players together at the same time to get them to go at each other in the heat of the moment with no time to really think. |
|
|
|
Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 1, 2019 19:09:12 GMT
Please correct me if I'm missing something here - His plan begins in Cleveland to get that book from former Hydra goon. He frames Bucky for the UN bombing in Vienna to draw him out.. knowing it will create a division between Rogers and Stark? He kills and impersonates the doctor originally meant to evaluate Bucky. He He also has an EMP ready to use. Saying the magic words causes Bucky to go full Terminator mode and him to escape to Siberia. Later, he calls the hotel he was staying at just to have them discover the corpse in the bathtub. This information gets through to Stark, who realizes Rogers was probably right, and also travels to Siberia where Rogers and Barnes are. It's a good thing Tony got this info or he wouldn't have shown up. Finally, he reveals to Stark the footage showing Bucky killing Ma and Pa Stark in 1991. This of course leads to Steve and Tony bickering with each other.
Now, does this plan seem a bit too convoluted? Why not just mail the video tape to Tony or something? Of course it seems convoluted. That's because it is!
Generally speaking I did like the idea of pitting them against one another since there's no way HE could have taken them on, but I have two problems...
1) He couldn't have known that ANY Of that would have worked. There's any number of times that plan could have unraveled. and 2) How did he know about any of it in the first place? How did he know about the former hydra goon? How did he know that guy had the book? How did he know about the book in the first place? How did he know about Bucky at all? How did he know that Bucky killed Tony's parents when even TONY DIDNT KNOW? How did he know which doctor to impersonate that would get him close enough TO Bucky?
BUT... none of that is the point. The point is Macguffin makes our heroes fight one another and we get lots of cool action scenes! YAY! On that level it works in spades.
If he just mailed a video to Tony we don't get everything we got in that movie. No Black Panther, no Spiderman, no Antman, no airport fight scene, no chases in different parts of the world, none of that.
|
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 1, 2019 21:39:43 GMT
Please correct me if I'm missing something here - His plan begins in Cleveland to get that book from former Hydra goon. He frames Bucky for the UN bombing in Vienna to draw him out.. knowing it will create a division between Rogers and Stark? He kills and impersonates the doctor originally meant to evaluate Bucky. He He also has an EMP ready to use. Saying the magic words causes Bucky to go full Terminator mode and him to escape to Siberia. Later, he calls the hotel he was staying at just to have them discover the corpse in the bathtub. This information gets through to Stark, who realizes Rogers was probably right, and also travels to Siberia where Rogers and Barnes are. It's a good thing Tony got this info or he wouldn't have shown up. Finally, he reveals to Stark the footage showing Bucky killing Ma and Pa Stark in 1991. This of course leads to Steve and Tony bickering with each other.
Now, does this plan seem a bit too convoluted? Why not just mail the video tape to Tony or something? Of course it seems convoluted. That's because it is!
Generally speaking I did like the idea of pitting them against one another since there's no way HE could have taken them on, but I have two problems...
1) He couldn't have known that ANY Of that would have worked. There's any number of times that plan could have unraveled. and 2) How did he know about any of it in the first place? How did he know about the former hydra goon? How did he know that guy had the book? How did he know about the book in the first place? How did he know about Bucky at all? How did he know that Bucky killed Tony's parents when even TONY DIDNT KNOW? How did he know which doctor to impersonate that would get him close enough TO Bucky?
BUT... none of that is the point. The point is Macguffin makes our heroes fight one another and we get lots of cool action scenes! YAY! On that level it works in spades.
If he just mailed a video to Tony we don't get everything we got in that movie. No Black Panther, no Spiderman, no Antman, no airport fight scene, no chases in different parts of the world, none of that.
1. Well his plan was pretty spotless since it was so broad. We saw a specific outcome but not all outcomes In nearly every way there was no way that a conflict between Tony and Steve wasn’t going to happen and thus a rift in the avengers was inevitable to and especially with the sanctions against them. All he had to do was have some Avengers follow him which they would since he was identified as the bad guy who framed Winter Soldier and killed the doctor. |
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Feb 2, 2019 1:35:42 GMT
Zemo really wasn't necessary to the plot tbh. It'd had been cooler if he and Ross were operating together behind the scenes, taking advantage or exacerbating the growing schism between Stark and Rogers. Then the movie would basically be taking a side on the Accords, something I admired it for for not doing. |
|
|
|
Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 4, 2019 16:42:51 GMT
Of course it seems convoluted. That's because it is!
Generally speaking I did like the idea of pitting them against one another since there's no way HE could have taken them on, but I have two problems...
1) He couldn't have known that ANY Of that would have worked. There's any number of times that plan could have unraveled. and 2) How did he know about any of it in the first place? How did he know about the former hydra goon? How did he know that guy had the book? How did he know about the book in the first place? How did he know about Bucky at all? How did he know that Bucky killed Tony's parents when even TONY DIDNT KNOW? How did he know which doctor to impersonate that would get him close enough TO Bucky?
BUT... none of that is the point. The point is Macguffin makes our heroes fight one another and we get lots of cool action scenes! YAY! On that level it works in spades.
If he just mailed a video to Tony we don't get everything we got in that movie. No Black Panther, no Spiderman, no Antman, no airport fight scene, no chases in different parts of the world, none of that.
1. Well his plan was pretty spotless since it was so broad. We saw a specific outcome but not all outcomes In nearly every way there was no way that a conflict between Tony and Steve wasn’t going to happen and thus a rift in the avengers was inevitable to and especially with the sanctions against them. All he had to do was have some Avengers follow him which they would since he was identified as the bad guy who framed Winter Soldier and killed the doctor. But that's kinda my point. We saw one outcome. And for the movie that the outcome we want because it leads to he most confrontations and drama. But IRL there's no way ANYONE could have known that was the outcome they would get. Theres any number of instances it could have gone another way. |
|
