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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 12:15:17 GMT
After last nights Super Bowl I wonder. It seems as though that Bill Belichick as a coach won this Super Bowl. However given the age we live in, Wins have become a QB stat (in my mind no and it's stupid like a ring is a QB stat but the media wants to push this).
So I wonder, who is more important to the Patriots Championships?
So I shall go through each Patriots trip to the Super Bowl under the Belichick/Brady team and determine who was more responsible for the win or the loss.
If you choose to disagree by all means comment.
Super Bowl XXXVI (NE 20 - STL 17)
Brady: 16/27 145YDs 1TD 0INTs
My Opinion: Belichick
Super Bowl XXXVIII (NE 32 - CAR 29)
Brady: 32/48 354YDs 3TDs 1INTs
My Opinion: Brady
Super Bowl XXXIX (NE 24 - PHI 21)
Brady: 23/33 236YDs 2TDs 0INTs
My Opinion: Belichick via 3 McNabb INTs
Super Bowl XLII (NYG 17 - NE 14)
Brady: 29/48 266YDs 1TD 0INTs
My Opinion: Belichick Did Enough To Win Via Defense Offense Failed
Super Bowl XLVI (NYG 21 - NE 17)
Brady: 27/41 276YDs 2TDs 1INT
My Opinion: Toss Up
Super Bowl XLIX (NE 28 - SEA 24)
Brady: 37/50 328YDs 4TDs 2INTs
My Opinion: Pete Carroll Gift
Super Bowl LI (NE 34 - ATL 28)
Brady: 43/62 466YDs 2TDs 1INTs
My Opinion: Brady
Super Bowl LII (PHI 41 - NE 33)
Brady: 28/48 505YDs 3TDs 0INTs
My Opinion: Brady Did Enough to Win It. Belichick for Once Let Him Down.
Super Bowl LIII (NE 13 - LAR 3)
Brady: 21/35 262YDs 0TDs 1INT
My Opinion: Belichick
Overall:
Belichick = 4
Brady = 3
Carroll = 1
Toss Up = 1
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Feb 4, 2019 12:39:27 GMT
I posted this argument a while ago asking which pairing would be more successful - Brady with Jeff Fisher as his head coach or Belichick with Andy Dalton as his QB. A great coach can only do so much, but the greatest QB of all time can overcome a lot. I think Brady is significantly more important than Belichick.
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Feb 4, 2019 12:42:17 GMT
Your "overall" numbers lump wins and losses together? How does that make sense? Or am I missing something here?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 4, 2019 12:50:28 GMT
75/25 Brady/BB I'm not going to post it again but go ahead and look up Belichick's record before Brady became his starting QB.
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Post by NJtoTX on Feb 4, 2019 13:01:03 GMT
I posted this argument a while ago asking which pairing would be more successful - Brady with Jeff Fisher as his head coach or Belichick with Andy Dalton as his QB. A great coach can only do so much, but the greatest QB of all time can overcome a lot. I think Brady is significantly more important than Belichick. Brady wouldn't have been given the prep and focus from Fisher. Do you really think he would have been able to overcome mediocre play design? How? By audibles into another mediocre play? By convincing the OC to put in plays that he somehow knew from a previous life? |
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Post by sdm3 on Feb 4, 2019 13:05:04 GMT
Does Brady get to keep Weiss/McDaniels to work with under Fisher?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 4, 2019 13:06:05 GMT
Does Brady get to keep Weiss/McDaniels to work with under Fisher? Were they successful anywhere else? |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 4, 2019 13:07:36 GMT
I posted this argument a while ago asking which pairing would be more successful - Brady with Jeff Fisher as his head coach or Belichick with Andy Dalton as his QB. A great coach can only do so much, but the greatest QB of all time can overcome a lot. I think Brady is significantly more important than Belichick. Brady wouldn't have been given the prep and focus from Fisher. Do you really think he would have been able to overcome mediocre play design? How? By audibles into another mediocre play? By convincing the OC to put in plays that he somehow knew from a previous life? Belichick deserves credit for sticking with Brady over Bledsoe early on. As far as offense goes, Bill doesn't have much of a hand in that. |
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Post by sdm3 on Feb 4, 2019 13:18:58 GMT
Does Brady get to keep Weiss/McDaniels to work with under Fisher? Were they successful anywhere else? I wasn’t saying that they were responsible for making Brady as great as he is, just replying to NJ’s point that they probably had a little more influence on him offensively than Belichick. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 4, 2019 13:21:23 GMT
Were they successful anywhere else? I wasn’t saying that they were responsible for making Brady as great as he is, just replying to NJ’s point that they probably had a little more influence on him offensively than Belichick. Agreed, Belichick has very little to do with the offense. But after 6 SB titles, some people still want to pretend it isn't Brady. Belichick the QB whisperer, that must be it. |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Feb 4, 2019 13:31:48 GMT
Does Brady get to keep Weiss/McDaniels to work with under Fisher? In my hypothetical argument everything else remained the same. I didn’t put Brady on the Bengals. The counter-argument to my question would be Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy, and my response to that is that the Packers and Patriots have fundamental differences regarding how to build a team. Me saying Brady is more important should not be interpreted as Belichick being not important. They are both important and together even greater than the sum of their parts. But I think Brady could more easily win without Belichick than vice versa. |
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Post by twothousandonemark on Feb 4, 2019 15:17:44 GMT
Belichick 60-40.
I think Brady won the 28-3 game for them & nearly had them win last year with his performance alone.
But BB's bookending Rams victories are huge - greatest show on turf & the wunderkind's juggernaut, both muted.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Feb 4, 2019 15:21:20 GMT
Super Bowl XLIX (NE 28 - SEA 24)
Brady: 37/50 328YDs 4TDs 2INTs My Opinion: Pete Carroll Gift Every time that play is shown, the practice footage is practically graphed over it to show preparedness. That's Belichick. BB also didn't call timeout for Carroll. The play call was dumb on Carroll's part, but the actual play is Butler's & BB's readiness. |
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Post by Marv on Feb 4, 2019 15:27:15 GMT
Belichick.
I feel comfortable saying Belichick is the greatest head coach I’ve ever seen. I cannot say the same for Tom Brady.
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Post by sdm3 on Feb 4, 2019 15:28:43 GMT
Belichick. I feel comfortable saying Belichick is the greatest head coach I’ve ever seen. I cannot say the same for Tom Brady. Brady is almost as bad a head coach as he is a wide receiver, that's true. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 4, 2019 15:57:52 GMT
Super Bowl XLIX (NE 28 - SEA 24)
Brady: 37/50 328YDs 4TDs 2INTs My Opinion: Pete Carroll Gift Every time that play is shown, the practice footage is practically graphed over it to show preparedness. That's Belichick. BB also didn't call timeout for Carroll. The play call was dumb on Carroll's part, but the actual play is Butler's & BB's readiness. No team had ever come back from down ten points in the 4th qtr of the Super Bowl before that one. Brady led two TD drives against the #1 defense in the league in the 4th qtr. The defense then gave up a bomb to the goal line and bailed themselves out by guessing right on that bonehead play call. At best I'm willing to say it's 50/50. Everyone earned their paycheck in that game. It's only a 'Pete Carroll gift' because it didn't work. If the Pats weren't prepared for it, Carroll is viewed as a genius for that call. |
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Post by tristramshandy on Feb 4, 2019 16:06:11 GMT
Belichick 4%
Brady 3%
Ernie Adams 93%
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 4, 2019 16:25:40 GMT
Neither. It's Matt Walsh, Jim "The Deflator" McNally, and Julian PEDelman's PED supplier.
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Post by sdm3 on Feb 4, 2019 16:27:49 GMT
Neither. It's Matt Walsh, Jim "The Deflator" McNally, and Julian PEDelman's PED supplier. What about the guy who stole Kyle Shanahan’s backpack containing his gameplan on Opening Night before Super Bowl 51? A little remembered scandal, but a significant one! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 19:42:02 GMT
Super Bowl XLIX (NE 28 - SEA 24)
Brady: 37/50 328YDs 4TDs 2INTs My Opinion: Pete Carroll Gift Every time that play is shown, the practice footage is practically graphed over it to show preparedness. That's Belichick. BB also didn't call timeout for Carroll. The play call was dumb on Carroll's part, but the actual play is Butler's & BB's readiness. I listed it the way I did because honestly I feel like it's probably a 50/50 game for Brady and Belichick. Brady had a good game while Belichicks defense sealed it with the most memorable moment. So since it was 50/50 I awarded neither the point and gave it to Carroll |
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