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Post by Cody™ on Feb 8, 2019 22:41:39 GMT
Atheists like to make this claim. The problem with their objection is that He kind of did.
Luke 4:18
““The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
Christ was citing Isaiah 61:1 which in practical application condemns the slavery of His day.
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 8, 2019 22:49:50 GMT
BTW can I just say what an absolutely beautiful verse I think that is.
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Post by goz on Feb 9, 2019 2:37:08 GMT
No, many people make the claim that 'the Bible', in general doesn't condemn slavery. Cherry picking is still OK in an attempt to prove your fanatical agenda.  |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 9, 2019 5:08:38 GMT
Atheists like to make this claim. The problem with their objection is that He kind of did. Luke 4:18““The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captivesAnd recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;Christ was citing Isaiah 61:1 which in practical application condemns the slavery of His day. First of all, no he doesn't. None of those passages address "slavery". Slaves are not "captives"; captives are prisoners of war (or a prisoner of the state)! I was in the military so I know these things, but if you need to go look it up I suggest you find a dictionary. "Liberty to those who are oppressed" is too general of a statement to apply to anything specific like slavery. That could be a metaphor for someone who is oppressed by the curse of the law, or oppressed by their government. And by the way, we KNOW that Isaiah was referring to "prisoners" because he says so in the very next verse (that you didn't include). So you are about 4 steps removed from claiming that this had anything to do with slavery at all! Here is what Jesus actually said: Luke 4:18he Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,...Compare with... Isaiah 61:1The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captivesand release from darkness for the prisonersNothing about "slavery" there! Secondly, if Jesus wanted to GO AGAINST THE LAW OF GOD and condemn slavery, the simplest way to do that would simply be to say do not own your fellow man as property. But he didn't, and neither did God, nor any Apostle in the bible. Instead, we got this shit! Exodus 20:20-21“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.Leviticus 25:44-46“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.1 Peter 2:18-19Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God.Ephesian 6:5Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, These are the pro slavery passages from the Old and New Testament's that no Christians can ever seem to address directly! You just like to pretend this is not in the bible and come up with some obscure passage that has nothing to do with slavery in order to pretend that Jesus somehow condemned it. He did! And even IF he did, that still doesn't explain why god condoned it in the first place. Why did God consider this moral? Or conversely, why was slavery ever part of God's law if it's immoral and had to be reversed by Jesus (which never happened)? clusium 's ridiculous answer was to say that it's not the "bad" kind of slavery, it's actually the really happy, nice, friendly kind of slavery! I hope you can do better than that, but I suspect you'll just ignore it altogether in cognitive dissonance which is what most Christians do when faced with this impossible conundrum. |
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Post by llanwydd on Feb 9, 2019 5:29:33 GMT
Jesus did condemn slavery in Matthew 7:12. The well-known Golden Rule covers the slavery issue and a whole lot of other issues. According to the rule, if you would not want to be a slave you should not have slaves.
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Post by Vegas on Feb 9, 2019 5:45:37 GMT
Jesus did condemn slavery in Matthew 7:12. The well-known Golden Rule covers the slavery issue and a whole lot of other issues. According to the rule, if you would not want to be a slave you should not have slaves.Well.. not really. One could make the assumption that if you don't want to be treated like shit.. you shouldn't treat your slaves like shit. |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 9, 2019 5:47:00 GMT
Jesus did condemn slavery in Matthew 7:12. The well-known Golden Rule covers the slavery issue and a whole lot of other issues. According to the rule, if you would not want to be a slave you should not have slaves. NO HE FUCKING GODDDAMN DOESN'T! You motherfuckers need to stop with this lying bullshit I swear to god. Nowhere in the bible does ANYONE ever condemn "slavery". Unspecific, random verses about how people should generally treat each other is NOT a condemnation of a social institution specifically allowed for in God's law. What part about that do you not fucking understand? In order to say that ANYONE in the bible condemns slavery, you need to find a scripture where they call out the institution of slavery. The Golden Rule is a general guideline that is not all conclusive, and Paul demonstrates this when he tells the Corinthians to remove the evil from among them (referring to atheists and people of other religions who are sinning outside of the church). So you are yet another Christian moron who clearly doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about and just grasping at straws for any verse that you can find that can somehow invalidate God's law allowing slavery (and the apostles later support of it). But you can't do that because you don't know the bible! Those verses do not speak to slavery. And again, even IF they did, you'd still have to explain why God allowed it in the first place as it is immoral! |
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Post by goz on Feb 9, 2019 6:01:40 GMT
Jesus did condemn slavery in Matthew 7:12. The well-known Golden Rule covers the slavery issue and a whole lot of other issues. According to the rule, if you would not want to be a slave you should not have slaves. NO HE FUCKING GODDDAMN DOESN'T! You motherfuckers need to stop with this lying bullshit I swear to god. Nowhere in the bible does ANYONE ever condemn "slavery". Unspecific, random verses about how people should generally treat each other is NOT a condemnation of a social institution specifically allowed for in God's law. What part about that do you not fucking understand? In order to say that ANYONE in the bible condemns slavery, you need to find a scripture where they call out the institution of slavery. The Golden Rule is a general guideline that is not all conclusive, and Paul demonstrates this when he tells the Corinthians to remove the evil from among them (referring to atheists and people of other religions who are sinning outside of the church). So you are yet another Christian moron who clearly doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about and just grasping at straws for any verse that you can find that can somehow invalidate God's law allowing slavery (and the apostles later support of it). But you can't do that because you don't know the bible! Those verses do not speak to slavery. And again, even IF they did, you'd still have to explain why God allowed it in the first place as it is immoral! Settle petal. It is obvious that the Christian apologists are in many cherry picking camps. One of the greatest dichotomies of the 'BIBLE' is the difference between the OT and the NT. GREATEST con in the whole Christian world trying to reconcile them. IN ADDITION, are the Christian apologists who bring one saying against another. Pathetic IMHO the whole thing is a farce which is why I get shitted with Christian verse against verse rubbish ward, denomination and against denomination rubbish, ...basically because it ALL can't be right. The MORE that they claptrap on the more it becomes obvious that it is just that...claptrap. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 9, 2019 6:26:10 GMT
NO HE FUCKING GODDDAMN DOESN'T! You motherfuckers need to stop with this lying bullshit I swear to god. Nowhere in the bible does ANYONE ever condemn "slavery". Unspecific, random verses about how people should generally treat each other is NOT a condemnation of a social institution specifically allowed for in God's law. What part about that do you not fucking understand? In order to say that ANYONE in the bible condemns slavery, you need to find a scripture where they call out the institution of slavery. The Golden Rule is a general guideline that is not all conclusive, and Paul demonstrates this when he tells the Corinthians to remove the evil from among them (referring to atheists and people of other religions who are sinning outside of the church). So you are yet another Christian moron who clearly doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about and just grasping at straws for any verse that you can find that can somehow invalidate God's law allowing slavery (and the apostles later support of it). But you can't do that because you don't know the bible! Those verses do not speak to slavery. And again, even IF they did, you'd still have to explain why God allowed it in the first place as it is immoral! Settle petal. It is obvious that the Christian apologists are in many cherry picking camps. One of the greatest dichotomies of the 'BIBLE' is the difference between the OT and the NT. GREATEST con in the whole Christian world trying to reconcile them. IN ADDITION, are the Christian apologists who bring one saying against another. Pathetic IMHO the whole thing is a farce which is why I get shitted with Christian verse against verse rubbish ward, denomination and against denomination rubbish, ...basically because it ALL can't be right. The MORE that they claptrap on the more it becomes obvious that it is just that...claptrap. Eh, look who knows so much.  |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 9, 2019 6:51:37 GMT
NO HE FUCKING GODDDAMN DOESN'T! You motherfuckers need to stop with this lying bullshit I swear to god. Nowhere in the bible does ANYONE ever condemn "slavery". Unspecific, random verses about how people should generally treat each other is NOT a condemnation of a social institution specifically allowed for in God's law. What part about that do you not fucking understand? In order to say that ANYONE in the bible condemns slavery, you need to find a scripture where they call out the institution of slavery. The Golden Rule is a general guideline that is not all conclusive, and Paul demonstrates this when he tells the Corinthians to remove the evil from among them (referring to atheists and people of other religions who are sinning outside of the church). So you are yet another Christian moron who clearly doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about and just grasping at straws for any verse that you can find that can somehow invalidate God's law allowing slavery (and the apostles later support of it). But you can't do that because you don't know the bible! Those verses do not speak to slavery. And again, even IF they did, you'd still have to explain why God allowed it in the first place as it is immoral! Settle petal. It is obvious that the Christian apologists are in many cherry picking camps. One of the greatest dichotomies of the 'BIBLE' is the difference between the OT and the NT.GREATEST con in the whole Christian world trying to reconcile them. IN ADDITION, are the Christian apologists who bring one saying against another. Pathetic IMHO the whole thing is a farce which is why I get shitted with Christian verse against verse rubbish ward, denomination and against denomination rubbish, ...basically because it ALL can't be right. The MORE that they claptrap on the more it becomes obvious that it is just that...claptrap. It's even worse than that Goz. Because in this case, it's not like the Old Testament supports slavery and the New Testament condemns it. No, the New Testament also supports it! Peter and Paul (both apostles of Christ) order Christian slaves to obey their masters as they would Christ. So what they have now is a situation in which they are trying to claim that the New Testament contradicts itself. Except that instead of explaining the passages that support slavery (which they NEVER address), they have to force an interpretation onto an vague, obscure, and wholly unrelated verse to try to make it condemn slavery (in contradiction to what the verses they avoid say). It's preposterous! |
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Post by llanwydd on Feb 9, 2019 7:26:18 GMT
Jesus did condemn slavery in Matthew 7:12. The well-known Golden Rule covers the slavery issue and a whole lot of other issues. According to the rule, if you would not want to be a slave you should not have slaves. NO HE FUCKING GODDDAMN DOESN'T! You motherfuckers need to stop with this lying bullshit I swear to god. Nowhere in the bible does ANYONE ever condemn "slavery". Unspecific, random verses about how people should generally treat each other is NOT a condemnation of a social institution specifically allowed for in God's law. What part about that do you not fucking understand? In order to say that ANYONE in the bible condemns slavery, you need to find a scripture where they call out the institution of slavery. The Golden Rule is a general guideline that is not all conclusive, and Paul demonstrates this when he tells the Corinthians to remove the evil from among them (referring to atheists and people of other religions who are sinning outside of the church). So you are yet another Christian moron who clearly doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about and just grasping at straws for any verse that you can find that can somehow invalidate God's law allowing slavery (and the apostles later support of it). But you can't do that because you don't know the bible! Those verses do not speak to slavery. And again, even IF they did, you'd still have to explain why God allowed it in the first place as it is immoral! I am at a loss to understand how I deserve to be spoken to this way. Have I insulted you or something? Please explain how I am a "Christian moron". I will not resort to name calling like you have but may I ask, "Who is the moron?" I never said whether I was a Christian or not so how do you draw that conclusion. Very easy to hide behind your computer and vent at anyone who expresses an opinion. And easy to see why you do nothing but write on this board all day instead of go out once in a while. Because nobody in the real world can stand you. My comment was about Jesus, not about the apostles or anyone else in the Bible. And "God's law allowing slavery?" Get back on your meds. |
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Post by phludowin on Feb 9, 2019 9:18:07 GMT
Jesus did condemn slavery in Matthew 7:12. The well-known Golden Rule covers the slavery issue and a whole lot of other issues. According to the rule, if you would not want to be a slave you should not have slaves. I agree with the Golden Rule, but it doesn't say anything about slavery. "If you don't want to be a slave you should not have slaves"? Sorry, but that's as nonsensical as saying "If you don't want to be a car mechanic you should never hire a car mechanic to look after your car". Or "If you don't want to be a farmer you should never buy products from a farm". And complaining that someone insults you while saying "Get back on your meds" shows a rather poor understanding of the Golden Rule IMO. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 9, 2019 9:23:14 GMT
Jesus did condemn slavery in Matthew 7:12. The well-known Golden Rule covers the slavery issue and a whole lot of other issues. According to the rule, if you would not want to be a slave you should not have slaves. I agree with the Golden Rule, but it doesn't say anything about slavery. "If you don't want to be a slave you should not have slaves"? Sorry, but that's as nonsensical as saying "If you don't want to be a car mechanic you should never hire a car mechanic to look after your car". Or "If you don't want to be a farmer you should never buy products from a farm". And complaining that someone insults you while saying "Get back on your meds" shows a rather poor understanding of the Golden Rule IMO. False equivalency if there ever was one. When your car needs repairs or maintenance you hire a mechanic (and hope he doesn't rip you off). Who ever hired a slave? |
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 9, 2019 10:34:18 GMT
captainbryce They cover slavery. Yes they are. Many slaves in the Old Testament were obtained through warfare. That’s nice... Or it could cover any form of oppression, which would include slavery. He didn’t need to. He already said stuff like “love your neighbour as yourself” and “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and anybody who applies those principles to their life would not feel compelled to own another human as property.
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Post by Vegas on Feb 9, 2019 12:07:58 GMT
False equivalency if there ever was one. When your car needs repairs or maintenance you hire a mechanic (and hope he doesn't rip you off). Who ever hired a slave? R. Kelly |
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Post by rizdek on Feb 9, 2019 12:10:15 GMT
Jesus did condemn slavery in Matthew 7:12. The well-known Golden Rule covers the slavery issue and a whole lot of other issues. According to the rule, if you would not want to be a slave you should not have slaves. NO HE FUCKING GODDDAMN DOESN'T! You motherfuckers need to stop with this lying bullshit I swear to god. Nowhere in the bible does ANYONE ever condemn "slavery". Unspecific, random verses about how people should generally treat each other is NOT a condemnation of a social institution specifically allowed for in God's law. What part about that do you not fucking understand? In order to say that ANYONE in the bible condemns slavery, you need to find a scripture where they call out the institution of slavery. The Golden Rule is a general guideline that is not all conclusive, and Paul demonstrates this when he tells the Corinthians to remove the evil from among them (referring to atheists and people of other religions who are sinning outside of the church). So you are yet another Christian moron who clearly doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about and just grasping at straws for any verse that you can find that can somehow invalidate God's law allowing slavery (and the apostles later support of it). But you can't do that because you don't know the bible! Those verses do not speak to slavery. And again, even IF they did, you'd still have to explain why God allowed it in the first place as it is immoral! The closest verse I've ever been directed to that addresses slavery in any way was the one where Paul lumps slave traders with some other slimy scum in 1 Timothy 1.
However, it only addresses slave TRADERS, so it focuses on the trading and, presumably, the transport of people and selling them as slaves. He avoids actually coming out and saying slavery is wrong...probably because he might have been worried that many of his target audience might've had slaves. IOW, he was being "PC."
Much like folks who justify the OT for not coming out more strongly against slavery saying that God thought it was wrong, but that he (God) knew the people he was leading just weren't ready for it yet. This seems to be the gist of this apologists romp into why the OT doesn't come out more strongly against slavery...or really come out against slavery at all. Culturally, the people just weren't ready for it yet.
The best he can do is fend off the idea that the Bible actually encourages slavery.
Here again, the person cannot find where the Bible condemns slavery but can only meekly try to claim that it is misleading to suggest the Bible permits or sanctions slavery.
And even there, I think it is equivocal that what Paul says/does is a foundation leading to condemning slavery.
It's pretty weak sauce for anyone to claim that what Paul did reflected a strong conviction that slavery was absolutely a vile sin that was abhorrent in God's sight. At most, it seems like almost a wimpy, "well, gee, maybe you could consider freeing him...he was converted so, really, you could almost think of him as a brother.
"Homosexuality is an abomination, but slavery is inconvenient and...maybe, just maybe you should try to consider if maybe you could think about perhaps....freeing your slave?" Yeah, Paul was a real tower of intolerance when it came to slavery.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 9, 2019 12:12:27 GMT
False equivalency if there ever was one. When your car needs repairs or maintenance you hire a mechanic (and hope he doesn't rip you off). Who ever hired a slave? R. Kelly He believes he can fly. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 13:15:20 GMT
Another failed attempt to claim the bible condemns slavery. Gotta love the desperation.
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Post by clusium on Feb 9, 2019 14:46:08 GMT
Atheists like to make this claim. The problem with their objection is that He kind of did. Luke 4:18““The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captivesAnd recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;Christ was citing Isaiah 61:1 which in practical application condemns the slavery of His day. First of all, no he doesn't. None of those passages address "slavery". Slaves are not "captives"; captives are prisoners of war (or a prisoner of the state)! I was in the military so I know these things, but if you need to go look it up I suggest you find a dictionary. "Liberty to those who are oppressed" is too general of a statement to apply to anything specific like slavery. That could be a metaphor for someone who is oppressed by the curse of the law, or oppressed by their government. And by the way, we KNOW that Isaiah was referring to "prisoners" because he says so in the very next verse (that you didn't include). So you are about 4 steps removed from claiming that this had anything to do with slavery at all! Here is what Jesus actually said: Luke 4:18he Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,...Compare with... Isaiah 61:1The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captivesand release from darkness for the prisonersNothing about "slavery" there! Secondly, if Jesus wanted to GO AGAINST THE LAW OF GOD and condemn slavery, the simplest way to do that would simply be to say do not own your fellow man as property. But he didn't, and neither did God, nor any Apostle in the bible. Instead, we got this shit! Exodus 20:20-21“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.Leviticus 25:44-46“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.1 Peter 2:18-19Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God.Ephesian 6:5Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, These are the pro slavery passages from the Old and New Testament's that no Christians can ever seem to address directly! You just like to pretend this is not in the bible and come up with some obscure passage that has nothing to do with slavery in order to pretend that Jesus somehow condemned it. He did! And even IF he did, that still doesn't explain why god condoned it in the first place. Why did God consider this moral? Or conversely, why was slavery ever part of God's law if it's immoral and had to be reversed by Jesus (which never happened)? clusium 's ridiculous answer was to say that it's not the "bad" kind of slavery, it's actually the really happy, nice, friendly kind of slavery! I hope you can do better than that, but I suspect you'll just ignore it altogether in cognitive dissonance which is what most Christians do when faced with this impossible conundrum. My answer wasn't ridiculous. I explained to you outright where slavery was condemned: Exodus!!! God Commands that the Children of Israel be freed, & when the Pharaoh refuses, he & all the other slave owners are Punished for their evil actions. |
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Post by progressiveelement on Feb 9, 2019 15:26:36 GMT
What kind of pansy liberal condemns slavery when condoned by rightful leaders?
Make those dirty peasants earn their keep!!! Beat it into them that they are privileged to be breathing!!!!
😎
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