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Post by permutojoe on Feb 23, 2019 3:38:57 GMT
He beat George Foreman due to a gimmick and Frasier kicked his ass twice. He had an amazing style, I admit, but who did he actually beat?
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Post by Zos on Feb 23, 2019 10:02:34 GMT
No.
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Post by permutojoe on Feb 24, 2019 1:28:34 GMT
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Post by Zos on Feb 24, 2019 11:17:57 GMT
Tyson was rather a one trick pony, aggression. It works very well in the US if a fight goes the distance as US judges reward it more than in other domains, but t in a fight Ali at his prime could have withstood the onslaught and then used far superior actual boxing skills to win. As with all these yes/no questions though it's a bit silly as people tend to vote for the candidate that they remember the best through being contemporary to, and don't take into account the type of training and requirements of the time periods involved.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 25, 2019 17:37:52 GMT
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 25, 2019 17:59:01 GMT
He beat George Foreman due to a gimmick and Frasier kicked his ass twice. He had an amazing style, I admit, but who did he actually beat? Gimmick? He made Foreman fight his fight. How is that a gimmick? A fake punt is a gimmick, the hidden ball trick is a gimmick.
Ali fought in the greatest era in the HW history. Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Ken Norton could all be counted as top 2% of all HW boxers. Any one would have thumped Tyson, Lewis or any HW "boxing" now.
And you might add Sonny Liston to the "who did he actually beat" list.
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Post by koskiewicz on Feb 26, 2019 20:47:28 GMT
Ali's flash and pizzazz along with his controversial military conscientious objection status, and changing his name made his marquee. He was a blowhard, but an entertaining blowhard.
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Post by permutojoe on Feb 26, 2019 21:01:25 GMT
He beat George Foreman due to a gimmick and Frasier kicked his ass twice. He had an amazing style, I admit, but who did he actually beat? Gimmick? He made Foreman fight his fight. How is that a gimmick? A fake punt is a gimmick, the hidden ball trick is a gimmick.
Ali fought in the greatest era in the HW history. Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Ken Norton could all be counted as top 2% of all HW boxers. Any one would have thumped Tyson, Lewis or any HW "boxing" now.
And you might add Sonny Liston to the "who did he actually beat" list.
You don't see how the rope-a-dope was a major gimmick? And as you probably already know the wins over Norton were both decisions that were questioned. The most significant moment between the two came when Norton broke Ali's jaw in the first fight. And you probably already know the issues with the Liston fight too.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 26, 2019 21:23:06 GMT
Gimmick? He made Foreman fight his fight. How is that a gimmick? A fake punt is a gimmick, the hidden ball trick is a gimmick.
Ali fought in the greatest era in the HW history. Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Ken Norton could all be counted as top 2% of all HW boxers. Any one would have thumped Tyson, Lewis or any HW "boxing" now.
And you might add Sonny Liston to the "who did he actually beat" list.
You don't see how the rope-a-dope was a major gimmick? And as you probably already know the wins over Norton were both decisions that were questioned. The most significant moment between the two came when Norton broke Ali's jaw in the first fight. And you probably already know the issues with the Liston fight too. Letting your opponent wear himself out and then beating him after he tired wasn't invented by Ali. Jack Johnson did it routinely. So did Rocky Marciano. It was the biggest weapon on Jake LaMotta's arsenal. Ali just gave it a fancy name.
Ali fought four of the top 10 HW in Ring Magazine's list, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Liston. Norton was 12. I'd wager no other boxer in history had to navigate a list like that. Ali had brains too. He knew how to get into an opponents head before a fight. He did it to Liston, Frazier and Foreman.
The issues with the Liston fight are rumors.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Feb 26, 2019 21:31:34 GMT
Gimmick? He made Foreman fight his fight. How is that a gimmick? A fake punt is a gimmick, the hidden ball trick is a gimmick.
Ali fought in the greatest era in the HW history. Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Ken Norton could all be counted as top 2% of all HW boxers. Any one would have thumped Tyson, Lewis or any HW "boxing" now.
And you might add Sonny Liston to the "who did he actually beat" list.
You don't see how the rope-a-dope was a major gimmick? And as you probably already know the wins over Norton were both decisions that were questioned. The most significant moment between the two came when Norton broke Ali's jaw in the first fight. And you probably already know the issues with the Liston fight too. The decision loss to Frazier was questioned as well. And the the rumor surrounding the first Liston fight would favor Ali's legacy. Only the second suggests he won for reasons other than being the better fighter. In the first one he had to overcome cheating and still won. |
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Post by fjenkins on Feb 26, 2019 22:44:41 GMT
I thought he was great in Green Book but people don't even realize he's got two Oscars now.
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Post by WarrenPeace on Feb 27, 2019 1:09:21 GMT
He beat George Foreman due to a gimmick and Frasier kicked his ass twice. He had an amazing style, I admit, but who did he actually beat? The Gov. and the VietNam war draft board. Which is ironic for a trash talking tough boxer. "No, I won't go over there and kill them. I'll kill them in the ring instead!"
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