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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 11, 2020 18:43:56 GMT
Wait, you really don't know that there's a decent amount of white people in Africa? Check out the demographics of South Africa. While the dominant race is still black Africans, about 4-5 million are white Africans. That's not an insignificant amount. What I'm trying to say is, just because a person is African doesn't necessarily mean they're black. Perhaps, but I think we all know that the issue being discussed in this thread is whether or not Superman could be played by a black actor.
IMO there is nothing particularly white about the story of Superman where he MUST ONLY be played by a white actor. If you can accept that an alien from Krypton can appear like a Caucasian human male then you can accept that an alien from Krypton can be a black human male. After that the story is exactly the same, except that maybe he experiences some racism on Earth. But otherwise it would be more or less the same story. Its really not that big of a leap.
Now will people accept it? Probably not. Why? I think everyone who doesn't accept it needs to take a look inside and answer that question for themselves.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 11, 2020 19:01:53 GMT
He doesn't need to be white but it certainly makes more sense for him to be white. I mean, he grew up on a farm in a small town in Kansas. I've been to similar towns before and I stuck out like a sore thumb because I wasn't white. If Clark's whole childhood schtick was about him blending in and flying under the radar, it makes more sense for him to be white. But wouldn't that be an interesting new wrinkle to explore and add to the Superman mythos? I think it would be.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Mar 11, 2020 19:13:54 GMT
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Mar 11, 2020 19:14:25 GMT
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 11, 2020 20:47:47 GMT
Wait, you really don't know that there's a decent amount of white people in Africa? Check out the demographics of South Africa. While the dominant race is still black Africans, about 4-5 million are white Africans. That's not an insignificant amount. What I'm trying to say is, just because a person is African doesn't necessarily mean they're black. Perhaps, but I think we all know that the issue being discussed in this thread is whether or not Superman could be played by a black actor.
IMO there is nothing particularly white about the story of Superman where he MUST ONLY be played by a white actor. If you can accept that an alien from Krypton can appear like a Caucasian human male then you can accept that an alien from Krypton can be a black human male. After that the story is exactly the same, except that maybe he experiences some racism on Earth. But otherwise it would be more or less the same story. Its really not that big of a leap.
Now will people accept it? Probably not. Why? I think everyone who doesn't accept it needs to take a look inside and answer that question for themselves.
I wasn't really replying to you in regards to Superman being black or white, we can have a separate discussion about that. What I was responding to was merely your assertion that if someone was African then they'd HAVE to be black, which I felt was incorrect. As for Superman, if they were going to change his race why change it black? Why not make him Indian instead or middle-eastern?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 12, 2020 14:27:35 GMT
Perhaps, but I think we all know that the issue being discussed in this thread is whether or not Superman could be played by a black actor.
IMO there is nothing particularly white about the story of Superman where he MUST ONLY be played by a white actor. If you can accept that an alien from Krypton can appear like a Caucasian human male then you can accept that an alien from Krypton can be a black human male. After that the story is exactly the same, except that maybe he experiences some racism on Earth. But otherwise it would be more or less the same story. Its really not that big of a leap.
Now will people accept it? Probably not. Why? I think everyone who doesn't accept it needs to take a look inside and answer that question for themselves.
I wasn't really replying to you in regards to Superman being black or white, we can have a separate discussion about that. 1) What I was responding to was merely your assertion that if someone was African then they'd HAVE to be black, which I felt was incorrect. 2) As for Superman, if they were going to change his race why change it black? Why not make him Indian instead or middle-eastern? 1) Yes, there are white Africans. South Africans are white and black; etc.
2) Sure. Why not? He could be a Kryptonian with features of any race. If you can accept that an alien from Krypton can appear like a Caucasian human male then you can accept that an alien from Krypton can be human male with features from any racial lines.
I think the reason why we mention black or African American first is because that is the racial group that we think of first when we think of under-represented groups of people.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 12, 2020 14:36:07 GMT
Does he have to be? No. But, on the other hand, I can think of no really compelling reason why he should be otherwise.
I don't count contemporary PC brouhahas as a really compelling reason.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 12, 2020 15:02:54 GMT
I wasn't really replying to you in regards to Superman being black or white, we can have a separate discussion about that. 1) What I was responding to was merely your assertion that if someone was African then they'd HAVE to be black, which I felt was incorrect. 2) As for Superman, if they were going to change his race why change it black? Why not make him Indian instead or middle-eastern? 1) Yes, there are white Africans. South Africans are white and black; etc.
2) Sure. Why not? He could be a Kryptonian with features of any race. If you can accept that an alien from Krypton can appear like a Caucasian human male then you can accept that an alien from Krypton can be human male with features from any racial lines.
I think the reason why we mention black or African American first is because that is the racial group that we think of first when we think of under-represented groups of people.
No issues with your first two points. As for your last paragraph, this is something that somewhat irks me when it comes to diversity in movies, as usually their diversity simply means changing a white character to black. If we're talking about the US population, the 2nd biggest demographic after caucasians are hispanics, and I think they should at least get equal if not more representation than blacks. Not to mention all the other races like Asians and middle-easterners.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Mar 12, 2020 15:42:38 GMT
Clark Kent has to be white, if they want a black Superman just make a movie where Calvin Ellis is Superman. You don`t have to make Clark Kent black when there already is a black Superman named Calvin Ellis
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Post by dazz on Mar 12, 2020 17:10:24 GMT
Does he have to be? No. But, on the other hand, I can think of no really compelling reason why he should be otherwise. I don't count contemporary PC brouhahas as a really compelling reason. I think the same reason you do Red Son, see how Kal-El can change based off of how he was raised, with Superman being black there is more to his fear of revealing his true identity to people, he's seen how being a different skin colour changes how people treat him so imagine how they would react to find out the changes aren't just skin deep.
I think it works as a one shot because of this, I don't know if I personally want to see a movie series about Superman which isn't the same Superman we all know, a new TV show about a black Superman however could be cool, I think that's the other case, you shouldn't change the characters too much for the big screen without build up if they are so long established as this other version, small changes are fine but huge ones create a little too much of a disconnect I think.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Mar 12, 2020 19:40:26 GMT
Yes, unless they're rebooting continuity AGAIN. In which case, I'm not interested no matter what he is....
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 12, 2020 20:16:26 GMT
Any white character identified as such in its creation can be black. But it also means any black character identified as such in its creation can be white. The door swings both ways.
Shaft can be white. Kunta Kinte can be white. Black Panther can be white. Nothing is impossible. But why do it? The only reason to change it is political message signaling. Valkyrie in Thor became nonwhite because that is what Disney wanted. Not because they could not find a white actress for it. They didn't want one.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 12, 2020 21:12:32 GMT
Any white character identified as such in its creation can be black. But it also means any black character identified as such in its creation can be white. The door swings both ways. Shaft can be white. Kunta Kinte can be white. Black Panther can be white. Nothing is impossible. But why do it? The only reason to change it is political message signaling. Valkyrie in Thor became nonwhite because that is what Disney wanted. Not because they could not find a white actress for it. They didn't want one. Pretty much what I've been saying all along. Race changing itself is not an issue. It's the reason behind that change that raises concern. Are you changing the race of a character because the absolute best acting audition you had for the part was from an actor of a different race? Or are you changing the race simply for political/social reasons? One of them is a valid, fair reason. The other is discrimination.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Mar 14, 2020 11:05:40 GMT
why make him black?
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northernlad
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Post by northernlad on Mar 15, 2020 13:20:31 GMT
He has always been white. He needs to remain white.
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Post by dazz on Mar 15, 2020 19:38:18 GMT
He has always been white. He needs to remain white. Factually incorrect, he has usually/commonly been white but not always, as someone pointed out with the Obama inspired Superman as well as I think the Gods & Monsters version of Superman who was Hispanic looking and raised, though that was Zod's kid no Kal-El but Superman has been other things than a white and American raised.
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northernlad
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Post by northernlad on Mar 15, 2020 20:18:43 GMT
He has always been white. He needs to remain white. Factually incorrect, he has usually/commonly been white but not always, as someone pointed out with the Obama inspired Superman as well as I think the Gods & Monsters version of Superman who was Hispanic looking and raised, though that was Zod's kid no Kal-El but Superman has been other things than a white and American raised. Don't care about some obscure version that no one but comic book people know about. And that no one really gives a damn about. In popular culture he's always been white. When people think of Superman...they see him as white. The general public will not have a clue what the hell you're talking about. He's white...he has always been white.
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