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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 4:32:54 GMT
Now you are being difficult and evasive. Cut the crap. What do you want to know? I thought you were challenging my belief in God. I never challenged or questioned whatever you believe. But since you seem to want me to ask, what do you believe? |
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Post by goz on Mar 3, 2019 4:35:38 GMT
Cut the crap. What do you want to know? I thought you were challenging my belief in God. I never challenged or questioned whatever you believe. But since you seem to want me to ask, what do you believe? I asked first. correct.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 4:44:45 GMT
I thought you were challenging my belief in God. I never challenged or questioned whatever you believe. But since you seem to want me to ask, what do you believe? I asked first. correct. You are asking me what I believe? I don't remember you asking me that before. I believe in God. What do you believe? |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 4:58:16 GMT
How do you know my belief is real? That is very conceited and presumptuous of you. Because you "really" just expressed it. Why? You don't believe what you just said? I expressed something that I don't see as a belief though. It is just a knowing\understanding of the nature of the universe from my perception. All belief is, is a stream of words that create thoughts. These are not real, only what you "think" is real. If these thoughts are real, where are they?
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 5:01:00 GMT
How about not following either, that is what can be done about it. That is also a lay of the land. You're going to gravitate toward one or the other. That is only a generalisation of what you want to believe. Belief in God or Belief in no God, has to start with something that is supposed to represent God and what is this?
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 5:01:25 GMT
Because you "really" just expressed it. Why? You don't believe what you just said? I expressed something that I don't see as a belief though. It is just a knowing\understanding of the nature of the universe from my perception. All belief is, is a stream of words that create thoughts. These are not real, only what you "think" is real. If these thoughts are real, where are they? You just asked me, "How do you know my belief is real?" Is that your belief or not? |
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Post by goz on Mar 3, 2019 5:03:05 GMT
You are asking me what I believe? I don't remember you asking me that before. I believe in God. What do you believe? I don't believe in God yet I uphold individuals' right to believe in whatever they like as long as it doesn't affect me adversely.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 5:10:50 GMT
I expressed something that I don't see as a belief though. It is just a knowing\understanding of the nature of the universe from my perception. All belief is, is a stream of words that create thoughts. These are not real, only what you "think" is real. If these thoughts are real, where are they? You just asked me, "How do you know my belief is real?" Is that your belief or not? From the base concept of what the notion of belief is, I would have to answer yes for the sake of communicating the difference in understanding.The point is, it is my "belief\notion" and is not real to anyone else but me. However, I also don't see it as real, because it is just belief. I have no proof of my existence of this belief and what it represents. You admitted earlier that it is abstract, but it is real as well. That is just a contradiction in terms. Abstract is NOT real, so how can it be tangible?
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 5:12:26 GMT
You are asking me what I believe? I don't remember you asking me that before. I believe in God. What do you believe? I don't believe in God yet I uphold individuals' right to believe in whatever they like as long as it doesn't affect me adversely. Same here. Although I do believe in God, I too uphold everyone's right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt me or anybody else's inalienable rights. |
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 5:21:22 GMT
You just asked me, "How do you know my belief is real?" Is that your belief or not? From the base concept of what the notion of belief is, I would have to answer yes for the sake of communicating the difference in understanding.The point is, it is my "belief\notion" and is not real to anyone else but me. However, I also don't see it as real, because it is just belief. I have no proof of my existence of this belief and what it represents. You admitted earlier that it is abstract, but it is real as well. That is just a contradiction in terms. Abstract is NOT real, so how can it be tangible? Nobody knows everything. To bridge the gap between what they know and don't --- to connect the dots between what is known --- or to extend their understanding past what they do know --- people form beliefs. It is a matter of conjecture and imagination. Are you unable to conject? Do you have no imagination? You must believe something. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 5:34:56 GMT
From the base concept of what the notion of belief is, I would have to answer yes for the sake of communicating the difference in understanding.The point is, it is my "belief\notion" and is not real to anyone else but me. However, I also don't see it as real, because it is just belief. I have no proof of my existence of this belief and what it represents. You admitted earlier that it is abstract, but it is real as well. That is just a contradiction in terms. Abstract is NOT real, so how can it be tangible? Nobody knows everything. To bridge the gap between what they know and don't --- to connect the dots between what is known --- or to extend their understanding past what they do know --- people form beliefs. It is a matter of conjecture and imagination. Are you unable to conject? Do you have no imagination? You must believe something. Believe in what though? There is nothing to know where God is concerned, except that each and everyone of us takes responsibility for all our actions. What humans don't understand, is that we really know nothing. It is getting beyond the knowing that is key. The knowing is the barricade that prevents the clarity from shining forth.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 5:55:02 GMT
Nobody knows everything. To bridge the gap between what they know and don't --- to connect the dots between what is known --- or to extend their understanding past what they do know --- people form beliefs. It is a matter of conjecture and imagination. Are you unable to conject? Do you have no imagination? You must believe something. Believe in what though? There is nothing to know where God is concerned, except that each and everyone of us takes responsibility for all our actions. What humans don't understand, is that we really know nothing. It is getting beyond the knowing that is key. The knowing is the barricade that prevents the clarity from shining forth. The Bible was written based on the beliefs of many wise men, experienced men, educated men. It is a collection of thoughts, experiences and opinions. Extended by belief --- an attempt to make sense of it all. And to form a moral code people can live by. It might be right. It might be wrong. But its mission is well intended and noble. What are most books? A sharing of knowledge, thought, feeling and belief. That "networking" is one of the things that sets the humans ahead of all other forms of life on Earth. The Bible should be read as all other books --- with discretion. Some parts you may agree with. Some you may disagree. But to condemn a whole book with multiple authors just because you can't accept its basic premise is stupid. The Bible helps a lot of people. So does Christianity. Same with the Torah, Judaism, the Koran, Islam, as well as Hinduism and Buddhism. Nobody said you have to believe in anything. But unwarranted hostility towards religion in general is possibly a misplaced resentment based on your own desire for answers. That's where religion comes in. |
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Post by goz on Mar 3, 2019 7:11:31 GMT
I don't believe in God yet I uphold individuals' right to believe in whatever they like as long as it doesn't affect me adversely. Same here. Although I do believe in God, I too uphold everyone's right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt me or anybody else's inalienable rights. What do you mean by 'anyone else's inalienable rights'?
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 7:38:24 GMT
Same here. Although I do believe in God, I too uphold everyone's right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt me or anybody else's inalienable rights. What do you mean by 'anyone else's inalienable rights'? The word refers to a natural right that cannot be revoked by an outside force. ... In the Declaration of Independence Thomas Jefferson (using the un- variant) wrote that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" including "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” What are the unalienable rights according to the Declaration of Independence?Thomas Jefferson was the principal author of the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration states, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….” |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 9:42:42 GMT
Believe in what though? There is nothing to know where God is concerned, except that each and everyone of us takes responsibility for all our actions. What humans don't understand, is that we really know nothing. It is getting beyond the knowing that is key. The knowing is the barricade that prevents the clarity from shining forth. The Bible was written based on the beliefs of many wise men, experienced men, educated men. It is a collection of thoughts, experiences and opinions. Extended by belief --- an attempt to make sense of it all. And to form a moral code people can live by. It might be right. It might be wrong. But its mission is well intended and noble. What are most books? A sharing of knowledge, thought, feeling and belief. That "networking" is one of the things that sets the humans ahead of all other forms of life on Earth. The Bible should be read as all other books --- with discretion. Some parts you may agree with. Some you may disagree. But to condemn a whole book with multiple authors just because you can't accept its basic premise is stupid. The Bible helps a lot of people. So does Christianity. Same with the Torah, Judaism, the Koran, Islam, as well as Hinduism and Buddhism. Nobody said you have to believe in anything. But unwarranted hostility towards religion in general is possibly a misplaced resentment based on your own desire for answers. That's where religion comes in. The intention and basic premise is outdated. It was written around fear and superstition. It was code, a rule book, a law to abide by, for an archaic era that was brutal and mean and harsh. It was also about control. This is why we still continue to suffer, because of religion and ignorance surrounding God, what it represents and the desperate search for meaning. Whose meaning?
The dream fully realized, is to be awake to the illusion and the meaning of it all is nothing, something and everything. In other words, you are already God.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 9:52:01 GMT
I don't believe in God yet I uphold individuals' right to believe in whatever they like as long as it doesn't affect me adversely. Same here. Although I do believe in God, I too uphold everyone's right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt me or anybody else's inalienable rights.If one is going to steadfastly hold onto ones beliefs that are unproven, lack open logic and common sense reasoning, they are going to get protested and denied. That is anybody's right to do this too, regardless of what you believe. Religions have caused much harm throughout the ages and that is why they get challenged and denied. The moral code is up for contention.
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Post by Vegas on Mar 3, 2019 10:02:18 GMT
The intention and basic premise is outdated. It was written around fear and superstition. It was code, a rule book, a law to abide by, for an archaic era that was brutal and mean and harsh. It was also about control. This is why we still continue to suffer, because of religion and ignorance surrounding God, what it represents and the desperate search for meaning. Whose meaning?
The dream fully realized, is to be awake to the illusion and the meaning of it all is nothing, something and everything. In other words, you are already God.
  - "Beliefs are stupid, based on nothing but personal interpretation and a desperate search for meaning and control... Now here's my interpretation and my conclusion for meaning.. and you really need to believe this way, too, or else..."
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 10:37:26 GMT
The intention and basic premise is outdated. It was written around fear and superstition. It was code, a rule book, a law to abide by, for an archaic era that was brutal and mean and harsh. It was also about control. This is why we still continue to suffer, because of religion and ignorance surrounding God, what it represents and the desperate search for meaning. Whose meaning?
The dream fully realized, is to be awake to the illusion and the meaning of it all is nothing, something and everything. In other words, you are already God.
- "Beliefs are stupid, based on nothing but personal interpretation and a desperate search for meaning and control... Now here's my interpretation and my conclusion for meaning.. and you really need to believe this way, too, or else..." Oh, I agree here!
What is with all your laughing icons? Are you in sync with what I commented, or being derisive?
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Post by Vegas on Mar 3, 2019 11:19:40 GMT
Oh, I agree here!
What is with all your laughing icons? Are you in sync with what I commented, or being derisive?
Oh... Just pointing out irony that I thought I wouldn't have to point out a second time. If you have to ask "Are you laughing with me or at me?", the chances are....
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 3, 2019 11:47:58 GMT
Why is a 'test' necessary? God decided He wanted those people who get into Heaven to prove themselves worthy. Since you have already asserted that one cannot know these things I don't know why you keep making religious assertions.
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