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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 18:26:01 GMT
I know what I think and believe. And I know what I was taught. And I know what other believers believe. Knowing what you think is unfortunately not the same as thinking you know, at least enough to make definite assertions as you have been doing here. Which would be the point really, arguments from authority and popularity notwithstanding. Seems you are jumping to erroneous conclusions. I was asked what I think. I was asked what my religion teaches. I was asked what other believers think. I was not asked what is. As a result, I was answering what I think, what my religion teaches, what other believers believe. Not what is. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 3, 2019 18:31:04 GMT
Knowing what you think is unfortunately not the same as thinking you know, at least enough to make definite assertions as you have been doing here. Which would be the point really, arguments from authority and popularity notwithstanding. Seems you are jumping to erroneous conclusions. I was asked what I think. I was asked what my religion teaches. I was asked what other believers think. I was not asked what is. In which case please make your language more qualified. Since you have already told us that it is impossible to really know anything about religion & etc, then neither you, your religion nor other believers can be definitive.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 18:40:33 GMT
Seems you are jumping to erroneous conclusions. I was asked what I think. I was asked what my religion teaches. I was asked what other believers think. I was not asked what is. In which case please make your language more qualified. Since you have already told us that it is impossible to really know anything about religion & etc, then neither you, your religion nor other believers can be definitive. It is already qualified. If those who are frightened and angry towards religion are jumping to erroneous conclusions, that is not my fault or responsibility. They need to calm down and be more objective and open minded. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 3, 2019 18:49:08 GMT
In which case please make your language more qualified. Since you have already told us that it is impossible to really know anything about religion & etc, then neither you, your religion nor other believers can be definitive. It is already qualified. If those who are frightened and angry towards religion are jumping to erroneous conclusions, that is not my fault or responsibility. They need to calm down and be more objective and open minded. As I have already said, bald statements such as you provide are not statements which are qualified. (They do not appear objective nor open-minded, for instance). But if you are saying that everything you say ought be automatically qualified as in fact you do not know anything in this context, fair enough. I will be pleased to point this admission out in future on this thread to anyone likely to be unaware of your professed ignorance.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 18:56:27 GMT
It is already qualified. If those who are frightened and angry towards religion are jumping to erroneous conclusions, that is not my fault or responsibility. They need to calm down and be more objective and open minded. As I have already said, bald statements such as you provide are not statements which are qualified. (They do not appear objective nor open-minded, for instance). But if you are saying that everything you say ought be automatically qualified as in fact you do not know anything in this context, fair enough. I will be pleased to point this admission out in future on this thread to anyone likely to be unaware of your professed ignorance. That should already be understood. Believers state that which they believe. Not what they know. But believers know what they believe, what their religion teaches and what other believers believe. I have stated many times on this thread - religion and believing in God is a matter of faith. Not knowledge. Certainly not proof. This should be understood. I agree, some believers mistakenly confuse what they believe and what they know. But hopefully I know the difference. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 3, 2019 19:01:08 GMT
As I have already said, bald statements such as you provide are not statements which are qualified. (They do not appear objective nor open-minded, for instance). But if you are saying that everything you say ought be automatically qualified as in fact you do not know anything in this context, fair enough. I will be pleased to point this admission out in future on this thread to anyone likely to be unaware of your professed ignorance. That should already be understood. Believers state that which they believe. Not what they know. But believers know what they believe, what their religion teaches and what other believers believe. I have stated many times on this thread - religion and believing in God is a matter of faith. Not knowledge. Certainly not proof. This should be understood. I agree, some believers mistakenly confuse what they believe and what they know. But hopefully I know the difference. It is better for some to think hopefully than to arrive at a conclusion.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 19:04:38 GMT
That should already be understood. Believers state that which they believe. Not what they know. But believers know what they believe, what their religion teaches and what other believers believe. I have stated many times on this thread - religion and believing in God is a matter of faith. Not knowledge. Certainly not proof. This should be understood. I agree, some believers mistakenly confuse what they believe and what they know. But hopefully I know the difference. It is better for some to think hopefully than to arrive at a conclusion. No, it is better to arrive at a conclusion as to what they think and believe. Than to just think hopefully. |
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Post by Archelaus on Mar 3, 2019 20:39:41 GMT
He will. Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire after the thousand year reign with Christ. Sorry, I don't 'get' this. Where is the 'lake of fire'? ...and when is 'after the thousand year reign of Christ'? Wasn't that in approx. 1,032AD? Study the sequence of events concerning the end times in the Bible. After the defeat of the Antichrist and the False Prophet (Revelation 19), Jesus Christ and those who believe in Christ will reign over the Earth for a thousand years. Satan will be bound during that same time, but he will be released from hell (Revelation 20). Satan will gather the armies of Gog and Magog to attack the saints, but they will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is basically the Second Death in which the souls of the wicked will forever be tormented in fire and brimstone. It is not to be confused with hell since the domain of hell will also be thrown into the lake of fire.
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Post by goz on Mar 3, 2019 20:41:25 GMT
As I have already said, bald statements such as you provide are not statements which are qualified. (They do not appear objective nor open-minded, for instance). But if you are saying that everything you say ought be automatically qualified as in fact you do not know anything in this context, fair enough. I will be pleased to point this admission out in future on this thread to anyone likely to be unaware of your professed ignorance. That should already be understood. Believers state that which they believe. Not what they know. But believers know what they believe, what their religion teaches and what other believers believe. I have stated many times on this thread - religion and believing in God is a matter of faith. Not knowledge. Certainly not proof. This should be understood. I agree, some believers mistakenly confuse what they believe and what they know. But hopefully I know the difference. Inadvertently, I think you have put your finger on what is at issue here. ie: Rational intelligent people would wonder why other people ' believe in something that is not known. This is the conundrum of religion and atheism. Religion is not logical. You can assert that it is 'spiritual' catering to human emotional needs, and that is a proposition of some worth, however the fact that religious people believe in such far fetched notions, with little or no reason, is VERY perplexing to those of us who rate truth and knowledge most highly. The holes in the religious 'stories' are just too vast for intelligent thinking humans to accept IMHO. It is ironic that you seem to acknowledge thi yourself and are fine with the voodoo.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 21:33:55 GMT
That should already be understood. Believers state that which they believe. Not what they know. But believers know what they believe, what their religion teaches and what other believers believe. I have stated many times on this thread - religion and believing in God is a matter of faith. Not knowledge. Certainly not proof. This should be understood. I agree, some believers mistakenly confuse what they believe and what they know. But hopefully I know the difference. Inadvertently, I think you have put your finger on what is at issue here. ie: Rational intelligent people would wonder why other people ' believe in something that is not known. This is the conundrum of religion and atheism. Religion is not logical. You can assert that it is 'spiritual' catering to human emotional needs, and that is a proposition of some worth, however the fact that religious people believe in such far fetched notions, with little or no reason, is VERY perplexing to those of us who rate truth and knowledge most highly. The holes in the religious 'stories' are just too vast for intelligent thinking humans to accept IMHO. It is ironic that you seem to acknowledge thi yourself and are fine with the voodoo. goz said she doesn't believe there is a God. Does goz have any evidence that believers don't have? Nobody knows whether there is a God or not. So either belief is a valid possibility. If believers don't ridicule Atheists as being ridiculous, why is ridiculing believers any more valid? Believers have reason to believe. They feel the existence of God. They desire a sensible reason for the meaning of life. Religion gives them more purpose than just a selfish hedonistic short term existence. And a moral code with purpose greater than themselves. They feel this is true. Otherwise just like many they would laugh it off as ridiculous fantasy. They can't. Some have tried but just cannot deny their feelings and beliefs. I was an Atheist and agnostic for a while. I was just pretending. I was who I was. Believing made sense and felt right to me. I was happier and more successful believing. I was a better person when practicing belief. Right or wrong it's what's best for me. I am not a Bible thumping preacher threatening fire and brimstone demise. I don't go around demanding everyone believe what I believe. If people want to talk about it out of curiosity and a desire to learn about others --- great. Discussing and debating things helps me refine and sharpen my understanding of religion in general and in specific. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 21:57:13 GMT
If you give us something else to work with, that will give you some credence regarding whatever your notions or point is about what God is, then perhaps a decent conversation might ensue. Says the guy who thinks "Oh, the irony, coming from the biggest chimp on the board, chump!" is witty enough to have 17  s... At what point did I say that I didn't understand the concept?  It's just not that good of a theory... other than it makes for a good motivational poster... Maybe you should high-light it with a picture of a kitten hanging from a tree branch. 
What makes it theory chump?
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 22:33:12 GMT
Absolutely. It is confusing. Choosing to believe in God was never meant to be easy. It's a test. There you go again. Making definite statements about supposed tests while, at the same time, telling us that one cannot know anything for sure. If one does not know anything about these things then it is equally possible that choosing to believe in God was meant to be easy and not a test at all. In fact I can think of no scripture which says acquiring belief in God is to be made necessarily hard (the travails more likely occur when the faithful are persecuted for their faith once established and that is, they are told, to be expected). As the credulous show all the time in fact, belief in a deliberate supernatural of one's preference can often be just too easy.. If it is so easy, why do so many struggle with it? Just "believing" in what is proven is not really believing at all. It is just knowing. Believing in something that may or not be true is more difficult. |
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Post by Vegas on Mar 3, 2019 22:52:54 GMT
Says the guy who thinks "Oh, the irony, coming from the biggest chimp on the board, chump!" is witty enough to have 17 s... At what point did I say that I didn't understand the concept? It's just not that good of a theory... other than it makes for a good motivational poster... Maybe you should high-light it with a picture of a kitten hanging from a tree branch.
You being an idiot. That's what. 
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 22:57:57 GMT
It's just not that good of a theory... other than it makes for a good motivational poster... Maybe you should high-light it with a picture of a kitten hanging from a tree branch. Ha ha ha . . . !!! Good one Vegas . . . Ha ha ha !!! |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 22:58:02 GMT
What makes it theory chump? You being an idiot. That's what. Yes, we know you are an idiot. The fact, not theory, that you keep calling posters retards and tell them to f<>k off when you have been called out only says more about you. 
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 22:59:35 GMT
It's just not that good of a theory... other than it makes for a good motivational poster... Maybe you should high-light it with a picture of a kitten hanging from a tree branch. Ha ha ha . . . !!! Good one Vegas. Giving Vegas credence, is only really from one chump to another regarding this topic.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 23:06:30 GMT
Ha ha ha . . . !!! Good one Vegas. Giving Vegas credence, is only really from one chump to another regarding this topic. And your hostility towards believers insinuates Vegas has every right to be insulted, offended and defensive. Your hostility implies more that you are angry with yourself for not understanding religion, faith and belief. Than you actually hating those who believe. "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. And using fire on flies may turn those flies into stinging bees." |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 23:13:49 GMT
Giving Vegas credence, is only really from one chump to another regarding this topic. And your hostility towards believers insinuates Vegas has every right to be insulted, offended and defensive. Your hostility implies more that you are angry with yourself for not understanding religion, faith and belief. Than you actually hating those who believe. "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. And using fire on flies may turn those flies into stinging bees."Waa! Waa! Waa! 
There you go again, telling others what is wrong with them, for not understanding what you believe to be true. Your belief is YOURS to own and deal with, not to expound this onto others when all common sense logic and reason points to this religious belief in God as being a fallacy. You are the one doing the hating on others for not sharing your belief. Religion, faith and belief are all a non-entity to me. They are a delusion only.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 3, 2019 23:20:25 GMT
And your hostility towards believers insinuates Vegas has every right to be insulted, offended and defensive. Your hostility implies more that you are angry with yourself for not understanding religion, faith and belief. Than you actually hating those who believe. "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. And using fire on flies may turn those flies into stinging bees."Waa! Waa! Waa!
There you go again, telling others what is wrong with them, for not understanding what you believe to be true. Your belief is YOURS to own and deal with, not to expound this onto others when all common sense logic and reason points to this religious belief in God as being a fallacy. You are the one doing the hating on others for not sharing your belief. Religion, faith and belief are all a non-entity to me. They are a delusion only.
I never said what I believe is true. As a matter of fact I have said there is no proof God exists. All I have done is "shared" my beliefs with others on this thread. I have consistently resisted the urge to --- like you --- attack others who don't share my beliefs. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Mar 3, 2019 23:22:23 GMT
Inadvertently, I think you have put your finger on what is at issue here. ie: Rational intelligent people would wonder why other people ' believe in something that is not known. This is the conundrum of religion and atheism. Religion is not logical. You can assert that it is 'spiritual' catering to human emotional needs, and that is a proposition of some worth, however the fact that religious people believe in such far fetched notions, with little or no reason, is VERY perplexing to those of us who rate truth and knowledge most highly. The holes in the religious 'stories' are just too vast for intelligent thinking humans to accept IMHO. It is ironic that you seem to acknowledge thi yourself and are fine with the voodoo. goz said she doesn't believe there is a God. Does goz have any evidence that believers don't have? Nobody knows whether there is a God or not. So either belief is a valid possibility. If believers don't ridicule Atheists as being ridiculous, why is ridiculing believers any more valid? Believers have reason to believe. They feel the existence of God. They desire a sensible reason for the meaning of life. Religion gives them more purpose than just a selfish hedonistic short term existence. And a moral code with purpose greater than themselves. They feel this is true. Otherwise just like many they would laugh it off as ridiculous fantasy. They can't. Some have tried but just cannot deny their feelings and beliefs. I was an Atheist and agnostic for a while. I was just pretending. I was who I was. Believing made sense and felt right to me. I was happier and more successful believing. I was a better person when practicing belief. Right or wrong it's what's best for me. I am not a Bible thumping preacher threatening fire and brimstone demise. I don't go around demanding everyone believe what I believe. If people want to talk about it out of curiosity and a desire to learn about others --- great. Discussing and debating things helps me refine and sharpen my understanding of religion in general and in specific. Why does it come down to either, ither or? It just is.
If you can't know something, don't attempt to rationalize it. It only make one look foolish.
Truth only exists beyond belief. Belief is a hindrance to this.
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