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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:22:56 GMT
They can exist because we cannot prove they don't. By the process of elimination, it's a possibility. I am going to give Vegas a quiver in his pants when I say 'Occam's Razor.' How can they exist without a complicated and complex set of prerequisites and mental gymnastics that are never going to be proveable? Anything is possible. Unless it can be proven impossible. No one can prove God doesn't exist. So He might. |
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Post by Isapop on Mar 12, 2019 0:26:24 GMT
If someone promises to pay you one million dollars if you will believe that extraterrestrial life exists, it's easy to see the benefit of believing (and you may decide to profess belief). But the money has no power to persuade anyone to genuinely believe that it's true. I think your analogy was poor. People who already believe in extraterrestrial life would not stop believing if they would receive a million clams for continuing to believe what they already believed. People who already believe in extraterrestrial life do so for actual reasons they find persuasive and independent of any benefit. Citing a benefit for belief has no affect on what they believe, just as it should have no affect on whether a person is persuaded to believe in God.Pointing out how much greater a benefit is still does not give it any persuasive power.
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Post by goz on Mar 12, 2019 0:28:53 GMT
I am going to give Vegas a quiver in his pants when I say 'Occam's Razor.' How can they exist without a complicated and complex set of prerequisites and mental gymnastics that are never going to be proveable? Anything is possible. Unless it can be proven impossible. No one can prove God doesn't exist. So He might.   We were talking about Heaven and Hell! ...though the same principle applies to God. You say you believe in God and are unaligned. So why do you now say you are Christian and believe in Heaven and Hell? Not everything is possible.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:31:51 GMT
Anything is possible. Unless it can be proven impossible. No one can prove God doesn't exist. So He might. We were talking about Heaven and Hell! ...though the same principle applies to God. You say you believe in God and are unaligned. So why do you now say you are Christian and believe in Heaven and Hell? Not everything is possible. That makes no sense at all. |
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:34:30 GMT
I think your analogy was poor. People who already believe in extraterrestrial life would not stop believing if they would receive a million clams for continuing to believe what they already believed. People who already believe in extraterrestrial life do so for actual reasons they find persuasive and independent of any benefit. Citing a benefit for belief has no affect on what they believe, just as it should have no affect on whether a person is persuaded to believe in God.Pointing out how much greater a benefit is still does not give it any persuasive power. Wrong. Two reasons for believing in God or extraterrestrial life is not as convincing as three reasons. The greater the benefit --- and the lesser the consequence --- the more persuasive the argument is. |
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Post by phludowin on Mar 12, 2019 0:38:15 GMT
That is ridiculous. My belief in God doesn't require me to do anything I don't want to do. Or anything I wasn't doing as an Athiest or agnostic. (You seem to be confusing the belief in God with the ridiculous practices of some believers.) Maybe not you. But others, who maybe like certain types of food, or want to have sexual or romantic relationships with members of their own gender; but belief that the god they believe in doesn't like it. In that case, they would lose a lot. In fact, they lose an opportunity to live a happy life. If you don't believe in God, your luck and fortune could turn for the worse. It also could if I did believe in God. Ask Job. And when you die, instead of going to Heaven, you will go to Hell. There is no afterlife. So when I die, I will go nowhere.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:44:34 GMT
That is ridiculous. My belief in God doesn't require me to do anything I don't want to do. Or anything I wasn't doing as an Athiest or agnostic. (You seem to be confusing the belief in God with the ridiculous practices of some believers.) Maybe not you. But others, who maybe like certain types of food, or want to have sexual or romantic relationships with members of their own gender; but belief that the god they believe in doesn't like it. In that case, they would lose a lot. In fact, they lose an opportunity to live a happy life. If you don't believe in God, your luck and fortune could turn for the worse. It also could if I did believe in God. Ask Job. And when you die, instead of going to Heaven, you will go to Hell. There is no afterlife. So when I die, I will go nowhere. God does not require any sacrifice for no reason. If some believers believe otherwise, they are stupid. The story of Job was just a fictitious parable to illustrate the virtues of patience and faith. That didn't really happen. There is no afterlife? How do you know that? Do you have proof? |
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Post by Isapop on Mar 12, 2019 0:45:31 GMT
People who already believe in extraterrestrial life do so for actual reasons they find persuasive and independent of any benefit. Citing a benefit for belief has no affect on what they believe, just as it should have no affect on whether a person is persuaded to believe in God.Pointing out how much greater a benefit is still does not give it any persuasive power. Wrong. Two reasons for believing in God or extraterrestrial life is not as convincing as three reasons. The greater the benefit --- and the lesser the consequence --- the more persuasive the argument is. In your scheme of things, what a person believes is simply up for bid, and the highest bidder wins belief.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:48:40 GMT
Wrong. Two reasons for believing in God or extraterrestrial life is not as convincing as three reasons. The greater the benefit --- and the lesser the consequence --- the more persuasive the argument is. In your scheme of things, what a person believes is simply up for bid, and the highest bidder wins belief. No, it is really just discrimination. As in being a discriminating thinker. One should always compare choices and decide for logical reasons which choice is best. |
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Post by goz on Mar 12, 2019 0:48:56 GMT
We were talking about Heaven and Hell! ...though the same principle applies to God. You say you believe in God and are unaligned. So why do you now say you are Christian and believe in Heaven and Hell? Not everything is possible. That makes no sense at all. It makes perfect sense. Logic and truth often do.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:50:41 GMT
That makes no sense at all. It makes perfect sense. Logic and truth often do. I agree. But your post was illogical. Logically --- taking a chance on eternal damnation and suffering --- for no reason --- is illogical. |
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Post by goz on Mar 12, 2019 0:51:33 GMT
In your scheme of things, what a person believes is simply up for bid, and the highest bidder wins belief. No, it is really just discrimination. As in being a discriminating thinker. One should always compare choices and decide for logical reasons which choice is best. ... and yet you are choosing the ones with no evidence.
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Post by goz on Mar 12, 2019 0:52:19 GMT
It makes perfect sense. Logic and truth often do. I agree. But your post was illogical. Logically --- taking a chance on eternal damnation and suffering --- for no reason --- is illogical. NOT if it is total bullshit in the first place!
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Post by goz on Mar 12, 2019 0:53:35 GMT
In your scheme of things, what a person believes is simply up for bid, and the highest bidder wins belief. No, it is really just discrimination. As in being a discriminating thinker. One should always compare choices and decide for logical reasons which choice is best. YOUR logical choices are without evidence.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:53:38 GMT
No, it is really just discrimination. As in being a discriminating thinker. One should always compare choices and decide for logical reasons which choice is best. ... and yet you are choosing the ones with no evidence. So are you. It is not a matter of evidence. There is no evidence either way. It is a matter of logic. Logically --- don't risk everything for nothing. |
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:54:32 GMT
I agree. But your post was illogical. Logically --- taking a chance on eternal damnation and suffering --- for no reason --- is illogical. NOT if it is total bullshit in the first place! Its bullshit? How do you know that? Do you have any proof? |
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 0:55:10 GMT
No, it is really just discrimination. As in being a discriminating thinker. One should always compare choices and decide for logical reasons which choice is best. YOUR logical choices are without evidence. So are yours. |
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Post by Isapop on Mar 12, 2019 0:56:05 GMT
In your scheme of things, what a person believes is simply up for bid, and the highest bidder wins belief. No, it is really just discrimination. As in being a discriminating thinker. One should always compare choices and decide for logical reasons which choice is best. A discriminating thinker considers what arguments for a belief are persuasive, not which belief promises the best benefit.
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Post by goz on Mar 12, 2019 0:57:05 GMT
Maybe not you. But others, who maybe like certain types of food, or want to have sexual or romantic relationships with members of their own gender; but belief that the god they believe in doesn't like it. In that case, they would lose a lot. In fact, they lose an opportunity to live a happy life. It also could if I did believe in God. Ask Job. There is no afterlife. So when I die, I will go nowhere. God does not require any sacrifice for no reason. If some believers believe otherwise, they are stupid. The story of Job was just a fictitious parable to illustrate the virtues of patience and faith. That didn't really happen. There is no afterlife? How do you know that? Do you have proof? No, butt your insistence on it being there has zero proof and.....watch out Vegas, we are going to give you penis a workover with Occam's Razor! There is zero proof for either. Which is more likely? 1. Nothing. 2. A complicated scheme of wishful thinking and apologist made up ideas to MAKE is so?
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Post by phludowin on Mar 12, 2019 0:57:08 GMT
God does not require any sacrifice for no reason. If some believers believe otherwise, they are stupid. So you say. Other believers may disagree with you, and even believe that you are stupid for believing what you believe. The story of Job was just a fictitious parable to illustrate the virtues of patience and faith. That didn't really happen. Correct. And that applies to many stories in the Bible. There is no afterlife? How do you know that? Do you have proof? Yes. Benjamin Libet proved in his experiments that body and "soul" are a unit and not separated. There is no body-soul-dualism. Conclusion: When the body dies, so does the "soul". Do you have any evidence for an afterlife?
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