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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 17:19:39 GMT
So, to bring the theological debate over here where it belongs, the question, to me, is not 'do animals have souls?' but 'are animal souls immortal?'
Yes, I am an agnostic atheist, I believe that when we die, there is no afterlife. But does a soul have to be immortal?
Just because I do not believe that there is a creator or a god, does that mean no one has a soul? I might get roasted for daring to state that I think every sentient being has a soul, given my atheism. But how different is a soul and sentience?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:22:13 GMT
Yes, animals have souls. I pray to St Francis for their protection every day. "Good St. Francis, you loved all of God's creatures. To you they were your brothers and sisters. Help us to follow your example of treating every living thing with kindness. St. Francis, Patron Saint of animals, watch over my pet and keep my companion safe and healthy. Amen."  |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 17:36:41 GMT
Yes, animals have souls. I pray to St Francis for their protection every day. "Good St. Francis, you loved all of God's creatures. To you they were your brothers and sisters. Help us to follow your example of treating every living thing with kindness. St. Francis, Patron Saint of animals, watch over my pet and keep my companion safe and healthy. Amen." That's beautiful, Father Jack.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:39:26 GMT
Yes, animals have souls. I pray to St Francis for their protection every day. "Good St. Francis, you loved all of God's creatures. To you they were your brothers and sisters. Help us to follow your example of treating every living thing with kindness. St. Francis, Patron Saint of animals, watch over my pet and keep my companion safe and healthy. Amen." That's beautiful, Father Jack. There are also prayers to St Francis for sick and injured animals, and for deceased animals. Look them up if you ever need them... You don't have to be Catholic, I'm sure St Francis will listen anyway. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 17:44:48 GMT
That's beautiful, Father Jack. There are also prayers to St Francis for sick and injured animals, and for deceased animals. Look them up if you ever need them... You don't have to be Catholic, I'm sure St Francis will listen anyway. I've always had a soft spot for St. Francis, we all love animals. You and I so much that we can't eat them.
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Post by maya55555 on Mar 10, 2019 18:09:39 GMT
Also, there is St. Martin de Porres; although not officially a patron saint to the animals, rescued and cared for many of them.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 10, 2019 18:17:29 GMT
So, to bring the theological debate over here where it belongs, the question, to me, is not 'do animals have souls?' but 'are animal souls immortal?' Yes, I am an agnostic atheist, I believe that when we die, there is no afterlife. But does a soul have to be immortal? Just because I do not believe that there is a creator or a god, does that mean no one has a soul? I might get roasted for daring to state that I think every sentient being has a soul, given my atheism. But how different is a soul and sentience? What would be the observable or testable difference between an animal with a soul from one without?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 18:33:58 GMT
So, to bring the theological debate over here where it belongs, the question, to me, is not 'do animals have souls?' but 'are animal souls immortal?' Yes, I am an agnostic atheist, I believe that when we die, there is no afterlife. But does a soul have to be immortal? Just because I do not believe that there is a creator or a god, does that mean no one has a soul? I might get roasted for daring to state that I think every sentient being has a soul, given my atheism. But how different is a soul and sentience? What would be the observable or testable difference between an animal with a soul from one without? There isn't one that I know of. I just know how animals respond to me, and me to them. I never said that I was being scientific. Since the debate still goes on over consciousness being studied... Technically, since I am agnostic, it's okay for me to say, "I don't know, and it is not possible to know..."
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Post by Vegas on Mar 10, 2019 18:41:58 GMT
When I was a pup and believed in such things...
I used to have a theory that the love of a human would give an animal a soul... and would, therefore, have an afterlife.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 18:42:23 GMT
This all reminded me of an old movie, "The Fantastic Voyage", where a ship and scientists are miniaturized and injected into a living person to take out a blood clot. In the command area, one of the military guys pauses while looking at an ant...
[Carter reaches out to kill an ant crawling on the table and changes his mind]
Col. Donald Reid: You'll wind up a Hindu. They respect all forms of life, however small.
As much as I disagree with what some (well, all) religions do, the respect for life takes precedence for me. I don't think we have to, or can, know if there is a creator or god, but on some level, sentient life is to be respected.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 18:43:54 GMT
When I was a pup and believed in such things... I used to have a theory that the love of a human would give an animal a soul... and would, therefore, have an afterlife. Kind of like the Velveteen Rabbit?
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Post by Vegas on Mar 10, 2019 18:49:21 GMT
When I was a pup and believed in such things... I used to have a theory that the love of a human would give an animal a soul... and would, therefore, have an afterlife. Great! I just realized my whole childhood was a lie that I stole from a book.  What's next?... You'll tell me that I stole my theory that God was actually an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together?  
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 18:53:42 GMT
Kind of like the Velveteen Rabbit? Great! I just realized my whole childhood was a lie that I stole from a book. What's next?... You'll tell me that I stole my theory that God was actually an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together? I would never tell you that. That theory seems more plausible than traditional religion. It's like, the galaxy is too big for our limited concept of god. Edit: Wait a sec... did you steal that from Star Wars? Are you talking about The Force?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 19:07:42 GMT
I do love quotations!
From the Dalai Lama, "This is my simple religion. No need for temples. No need for complicated philosophy. Your own mind, your own heart, is the temple; your philosophy is simple kindness."
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 10, 2019 19:32:25 GMT
Alive is Alive
Dead is Dead
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 19:36:04 GMT
Another quote: "The life of the dead is placed in the memory of the living."
Cicero
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Post by drystyx on Mar 10, 2019 19:43:28 GMT
Something isn't true in your statement.
If you're an atheist, then you don't believe there is something powerful enough to annihilate you (meaning the verb of you, the meter reading you which most think of as either "soul" or "spirit"), since it's proven the organism you read the meter of is millions of organisms, and is a noun, and the brain is the meter you read for the most part.
Some animals may never get a "meter reader" assigned to them. Who assigns them? Well, if you're an atheist, you don't believe anyone assigns them, and so the only logical explanation to an atheist is some sort of reincarnation, or at least existing in some spiritual way, since there's nothing to assign or annihilate the "meter reader".
I can't verify my belief about animals having "meter reader souls", but it seems apparent that pets at least acquire a piece of the person's soul or meter reader.
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Post by Vegas on Mar 10, 2019 19:55:48 GMT
What's next?... You'll tell me that I stole my theory that God was actually an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together? I would never tell you that. That theory seems more plausible than traditional religion. It's like, the galaxy is too big for our limited concept of god. Edit: Wait a sec... did you steal that from Star Wars? Are you talking about The Force? Star Wa r... ? ...MOTHERFU- 
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 10, 2019 20:20:25 GMT
I like Mark Twain's answer:
Man is the Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion–several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself, and cuts his throat if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother’s path to happiness and heaven. He was at it in the time of the Caesars, he was at it in Mahomet’s time, he was at it in the time of the Inquisition, he was at it in France a couple of centuries, he was at it in England in Mary’s day, he has been at it ever since he first saw the light, he is at it today in Crete–as per the telegrams quoted above–he will be at it somewhere else tomorrow. The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out, in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 20:28:29 GMT
I would never tell you that. That theory seems more plausible than traditional religion. It's like, the galaxy is too big for our limited concept of god. Edit: Wait a sec... did you steal that from Star Wars? Are you talking about The Force? Star Wa r... ? ...MOTHERFU- LOL! Well, I would like to openly steal a concept from Star Trek, the Vulcan concept of 'katra', that can be transferred to another living being, like Spock did before he died. So, you are not alone! I was holding my husband's hand when he died. I would like to think that something of his consciousness transferred to me when he died, because I think about him always, and wonder what he would do in any given situation. Or did I just know him so well that I can speculate what he would do? As long as I don't insist, upon threat of death, that EVERYONE believes this, then I am okay. That is what personal beliefs are about. It's just when people have wars over the fine points that belief can become a bad thing. And that is what organized religion has done. I'll just repeat the definition of an agnostic atheist, here - I cannot know, nor is it possible to know, whether or not a god exists, and if he does, the nature of that god.
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