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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 7, 2017 16:41:34 GMT
Then that makes it worse. It seems all that matters is skin color. The character can be completely different from how he started as long as he's still white.
Besides, a lot of character changes did happen out of the blue.
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Post by goldilocksinthezone on Apr 7, 2017 17:33:14 GMT
It should be acknowledged of course that the oldest super hero characters were created by a predominantly white comic book industry decades ago before the civil rights movement emerged. I can totally understand that any given comic book fan would naturally relate to a character who has the same cultural or ethnic background. That said, it cuts both ways when it comes to relatability. Comic book fans vote with their dollars.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 7, 2017 18:26:15 GMT
The character can be completely different from how he started as long as he's still white. How the hell did you come up with that conclusion from what I said? I don't know if you've been paying attention to recent events but a lot of POC-to-white character changes have been met with way more criticism than the other way around. |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Apr 8, 2017 4:40:41 GMT
Ooh, then you're going to hate most modern comic characters because most of them are nothing like how when they were created. Batman used to use guns. Superman used to kill normal humans. I think you're taking this a bit too literally. There's a difference between a comic character's change coming only after evolving from multiple storylines into what they are currently... and a complete change just happening out of the blue. I'm used to mental gymnastics. People like him would use them to justify the RACE RAPING of Johnny Storm but bitch up a storm for Ghost in the Shell. |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Apr 8, 2017 4:42:07 GMT
It should be acknowledged of course that the oldest super hero characters were created by a predominantly white comic book industry decades ago before the civil rights movement emerged. I can totally understand that any given comic book fan would naturally relate to a character who has the same cultural or ethnic background. That said, it cuts both ways when it comes to relatability. Comic book fans vote with their dollars. And they voted "NO" on Catwoman, FANT4STIC, and even General Audiences took a shit on the "Annie" remake. |
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 9, 2017 2:34:17 GMT
They do not have to make Hal Jordan black; Green Lantern is black in the Justice League cartoon but he is John Stewart. Fact is, the attitude towards race-swapping varies from studio to studio. If faithfulness to the comics means everything, explain to me why fanboys have no problem with a white woman playing Ancient One in Doctor Strange , or a black woman playing Valkyrie in Thor: Ragnarok. Because they are made by the MCU. Don't know which rock you've been hiding under but majority of marvel fans complained about a black Valkyrie and there was a huge backlash over the ancient one casting. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 10, 2017 13:10:35 GMT
The character can be completely different from how he started as long as he's still white. How the hell did you come up with that conclusion from what I said? I don't know if you've been paying attention to recent events but a lot of POC-to-white character changes have been met with way more criticism than the other way around. Simple. You implied there's nothing wrong with a character being completely different from how he started as long as it comes to some character changed. But that's as far as it can go. No race change allowed. And yes, I'm against white washing, too. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 10, 2017 13:10:58 GMT
I think you're taking this a bit too literally. There's a difference between a comic character's change coming only after evolving from multiple storylines into what they are currently... and a complete change just happening out of the blue. I'm used to mental gymnastics. People like him would use them to justify the RACE RAPING of Johnny Storm but bitch up a storm for Ghost in the Shell. That's not what mental gymnastics means. |
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 10, 2017 15:25:22 GMT
How the hell did you come up with that conclusion from what I said? I don't know if you've been paying attention to recent events but a lot of POC-to-white character changes have been met with way more criticism than the other way around. Simple. You implied there's nothing wrong with a character being completely different from how he started as long as it comes to some character changed. But that's as far as it can go. No race change allowed. And yes, I'm against white washing, too. I didn't really understand what you said. "as it comes to some character changed"?? |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 10, 2017 16:08:14 GMT
Revision: as long as it comes from some character (ie: personality) change.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 10, 2017 16:22:28 GMT
Revision: as long as it comes from some character (ie: personality) change. So your revision: "Simple. You implied there's nothing wrong with a character being completely different from how he started as long as it comes from some character (ie: personality) change. But that's as far as it can go. No race change allowed. " Thing is, I never said that. Never implied it. You seem inclined to make my statements seem racist when they are not. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 10, 2017 18:58:11 GMT
You did imply it. I specifically mentioned that most, if not all, comic book characters are no longer the same as when they originated (as the other poster insisted they should be).
You then justified that as being part of story telling; therefore, it's ok for characters not be like they originally were. Even if they're the complete opposite. That's ok. But the race has to stay the same. No changes there.
And your statements were unintentionally racist. I'm not saying you are. In fact, I don't believe you are. But these statements are why there was a far greater uproar over the changing of Johnny Storm's skin color than over the complete overhaul of Dr. Doom's personality.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 10, 2017 22:01:51 GMT
As long as they cast a actor that plays the part well, i don't care. An asian actor gave the best T'challa addition? Cast him. A black man nailed the addition for Tony Stark? Cast him. As long the character is written and acted well, im fine with it.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 10, 2017 23:27:28 GMT
You did imply it. I specifically mentioned that most, if not all, comic book characters are no longer the same as when they originated (as the other poster insisted they should be). You then justified that as being part of story telling; therefore, it's ok for characters not be like they originally were. Even if they're the complete opposite. That's ok. But the race has to stay the same. No changes there. And your statements were unintentionally racist. I'm not saying you are. In fact, I don't believe you are. But these statements are why there was a far greater uproar over the changing of Johnny Storm's skin color than over the complete overhaul of Dr. Doom's personality. Ok, please quote me where I specifically said or implied that it's ok to change a character's personality but not their race. Go ahead, quote me. Because it seems you're either making stuff up or completely misunderstanding my statements. All I said was that a gradual change of a character over multiple story arcs is acceptable instead of a complete change coming just out of the blue. Nowhere did I mention either personality or race. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 11, 2017 13:05:34 GMT
That's where. As I said, pretty much all characters are very different from how they first started. Those changes in personality, however, seem to be excusable. But not the skin change.
Which makes no real since because a lot of those personality changes were just as sudden as a change in race.
Not to mention, very few characters just have their race changed in the comics. It's really only when they're adapted to a different medium. A blank slate, if you will.
It's not like Jimmy Olsen is suddenly black in the comics. But a black Jimmy Olsen (Perry White) in a live action adaptation isn't really a sudden change because that's who the character is now in that adaptation. Like Wolverine not being a berserker animal in the first X-Men movie.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 11, 2017 17:14:58 GMT
That's where. As I said, pretty much all characters are very different from how they first started. Those changes in personality, however, seem to be excusable. But not the skin change. Which makes no real since because a lot of those personality changes were just as sudden as a change in race. Not to mention, very few characters just have their race changed in the comics. It's really only when they're adapted to a different medium. A blank slate, if you will. It's not like Jimmy Olsen is suddenly black in the comics. But a black Jimmy Olsen (Perry White) in a live action adaptation isn't really a sudden change because that's who the character is now in that adaptation. Like Wolverine not being a berserker animal in the first X-Men movie. Back up a bit. So you admit that this is what I said "There's a difference between a comic character's change coming only after evolving from multiple storylines into what they are currently... and a complete change just happening out of the blue." and yet you insist that I mentioned something that it's fine to change someone as long as it's not skin color. Again, quote me where I mentioned skin color anywhere or admit that you're making stuff up. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 11, 2017 18:06:36 GMT
Because you defended the changes in personality with an excuse that they're the result of multiple storylines (despite that many aren't), but have a problem with changes in race in a different medium.
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Post by ReyKahuka on Apr 11, 2017 18:34:12 GMT
Unless race is integral to the character's backstory (Black Panther for example), I don't see it as a big deal. As long as the actor does the character justice, I'm all for it.
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Apr 11, 2017 23:32:53 GMT
Unless race is integral to the character's backstory (Black Panther for example), I don't see it as a big deal. As long as the actor does the character justice, I'm all for it. As long as it is done to better the character (Nick Fury) and not to accommodate some pampered cry baby (MB Jordan crying like a little bitch to play Johnny Storm) |
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 12, 2017 0:23:49 GMT
Because you defended the changes in personality with an excuse that they're the result of multiple storylines (despite that many aren't), but have a problem with changes in race in a different medium. I never defended changes in personality or mentioned anything about race. What I said was that I support CHARACTER changes that happen over a prolonged duration of time over multiple storylines instead of an abrupt change coming out of the blue. Again, I said CHARACTER changes. Not personality changes, not racial changes, not color changes. CHARACTER changes. I hope I've repeated that enough times to make it clear to you. Now please stop lying about what I said. Try to understand what I'm trying to say instead of making stuff up to fuel your racist tirade. |
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