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Post by Skaathar on Apr 7, 2017 17:07:06 GMT
diversity. It’s like affirmative action or the boy who cried wolf. You can’t shelve something down people’s throats and expected to stick. It needs to be sincere or organic. double standard. People bitch and complain about whitewashing, while completely boring the issue when the opposite is done. That is blatant hypocrisy. Agree and disagree.
Agree : "You can’t shelve (shove) something down people’s throats and expected (expect it) to stick. It needs to be sincere or organic.
Sincere and organic for sure.
Disagree: "boy who cried wolf; double standard; when the opposite is done. That is blatant hypocrisy."
Only someone who cant or wont put themselves in the "others" shoes for a moment would make that argument. "Assuming" that everything should normally start as White Male first, then everything else, as a baseline is what the problem is in the first place. You wouldn't say those things if you had been born a female of color. In that case, you wouldn't see everything from the perspective of "why isn't that character a white guy?"
And your "cry wolf" analogy is REAALLY bad, because crying wolf is when you yell "wolf" when there isn't one really there. But there really IS a wolf in this case. Unless your head is up your ass, we all know that racism DOES exist and that people of color have been marginalized in American society, especially in representation in our media, unless its in song and dance or to play criminals. This has only started to change more recently historically speaking.
I disagree on your disagreement. As someone who is not black and not white, whitewashing to me is just as bad as blackwashing, or any other color-washing for that matter. You can't complain about one and rejoice with the other. That's a double standard, that's hypocrisy, and that will NOT solve the problem in the end. And before you go, "you wouldn't feel that way if you were an oppressed female of color", I'll tell you this: People directly involved in an emotional situation (in this case discrimination) are rarely able to make the most objective, logical judgements. It can be argued that someone who's been oppressed for so long will probably be more interested in revenge than in proper equality. The best way to get an objective take on something is to get someone who's detached from the situation. |
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Apr 20, 2017 19:20:43 GMT
Idris Elba played a white character in Thor, as did Chiwetel Ejiofor in Dr. strange. Will Smith played a white character at least three at times (Wild, Wild West, Suicide Squad, I am Legend). You don’t hear people complaining about these anywhere near as much as Tilda Swinton in Dr. strange (the same God damn movie as Chiwetel Ejiofor) or Scarlett Johansen in Ghost in the Shell. Dress up in blackface? That is poor form. But Nick Cannon and the Wayans brothers dressing up as white people? That’s supposedly funny. The only one of the examples you mention above that even remotely has any teeth to it is the Idris Elba casting as he plays a character that is specifically Norse and known to be so around the world because of the Mythology.
However, even there it is CLEAR that the version of the Asgardians in the MCU is not an actual interpretation of the Norse gods but rather a Marvelized version where they are more a race of powerful aliens rather than the actual gods of myth. Plus, its such a small role, who really cares?
And all the other examples you give are neither here nor there. Especially the characters Will Smith played. Those were not white except in as far as that the person who created them couldn't envision them as anything else because they themselves are white.
And blackface? You want to bring up the handful of times a black person has played white instead of acknowledging the TONS of times whites have played people of color?! What are you, insane?! Take a hike with that argument.
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Post by primeone on Apr 20, 2017 19:27:00 GMT
It depends. I don't think we need an Asian with the name Dick Grayson.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 20, 2017 23:54:45 GMT
Idris Elba played a white character in Thor, as did Chiwetel Ejiofor in Dr. strange. Will Smith played a white character at least three at times (Wild, Wild West, Suicide Squad, I am Legend). You don’t hear people complaining about these anywhere near as much as Tilda Swinton in Dr. strange (the same God damn movie as Chiwetel Ejiofor) or Scarlett Johansen in Ghost in the Shell. Dress up in blackface? That is poor form. But Nick Cannon and the Wayans brothers dressing up as white people? That’s supposedly funny. The only one of the examples you mention above that even remotely has any teeth to it is the Idris Elba casting as he plays a character that is specifically Norse and known to be so around the world because of the Mythology.
However, even there it is CLEAR that the version of the Asgardians in the MCU is not an actual interpretation of the Norse gods but rather a Marvelized version where they are more a race of powerful aliens rather than the actual gods of myth. Plus, its such a small role, who really cares?
And all the other examples you give are neither here nor there. Especially the characters Will Smith played. Those were not white except in as far as that the person who created them couldn't envision them as anything else because they themselves are white.
And blackface? You want to bring up the handful of times a black person has played white instead of acknowledging the TONS of times whites have played people of color?! What are you, insane?! Take a hike with that argument.
Does that mean you wouldn't mind if the entire cast of Black Panther was played by Asians? |
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Post by kuatorises on Apr 21, 2017 13:27:35 GMT
Idris Elba played a white character in Thor, as did Chiwetel Ejiofor in Dr. strange. Will Smith played a white character at least three at times (Wild, Wild West, Suicide Squad, I am Legend). You don’t hear people complaining about these anywhere near as much as Tilda Swinton in Dr. strange (the same God damn movie as Chiwetel Ejiofor) or Scarlett Johansen in Ghost in the Shell. Dress up in blackface? That is poor form. But Nick Cannon and the Wayans brothers dressing up as white people? That’s supposedly funny. The only one of the examples you mention above that even remotely has any teeth to it is the Idris Elba casting as he plays a character that is specifically Norse and known to be so around the world because of the Mythology.
However, even there it is CLEAR that the version of the Asgardians in the MCU is not an actual interpretation of the Norse gods but rather a Marvelized version where they are more a race of powerful aliens rather than the actual gods of myth. Plus, its such a small role, who really cares?
And all the other examples you give are neither here nor there. Especially the characters Will Smith played. Those were not white except in as far as that the person who created them couldn't envision them as anything else because they themselves are white.
And blackface? You want to bring up the handful of times a black person has played white instead of acknowledging the TONS of times whites have played people of color?! What are you, insane?! Take a hike with that argument.
Your entire argument is "hypocrisy is okay and double standards are the way to go." |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Apr 22, 2017 8:05:36 GMT
When they made Starbuck a girl, I didn’t even blink. I didn’t care at all. But the race/gender thing is done so often now that it has become forced – which makes it meaningless – diversity. It’s like affirmative action or the boy who cried wolf. You can’t shelve something down people’s throats and expected to stick. It needs to be sincere or organic. Plus, I’m tired of the double standard. People bitch and complain about whitewashing, while completely boring the issue when the opposite is done. That is blatant hypocrisy.People are sick of it and I think that is evident in Marvel’s decreased sales. -True, everyone gang up on Scarlett Johansson for playing Major in Ghost in The Shell, that's whitewashing. But if you criticize Michael B Jordan been cast as Johnny Storm you are a RACIST. -Peter Parker was white in the comics, but he could be a Filipino transvestite nowadays, for "equality". If that's the route they're going let's cast Danny DeVito as the next James Bond, or are you agist? Let's not go that far, looks don't matter but Dave Chappelle is balck and funny, cast him as Jon Stewart, right? |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Apr 22, 2017 8:13:29 GMT
Agree and disagree.
Agree : "You can’t shelve (shove) something down people’s throats and expected (expect it) to stick. It needs to be sincere or organic.
Sincere and organic for sure.
Disagree: "boy who cried wolf; double standard; when the opposite is done. That is blatant hypocrisy."
Only someone who cant or wont put themselves in the "others" shoes for a moment would make that argument. "Assuming" that everything should normally start as White Male first, then everything else, as a baseline is what the problem is in the first place. You wouldn't say those things if you had been born a female of color. In that case, you wouldn't see everything from the perspective of "why isn't that character a white guy?"
And your "cry wolf" analogy is REAALLY bad, because crying wolf is when you yell "wolf" when there isn't one really there. But there really IS a wolf in this case. Unless your head is up your ass, we all know that racism DOES exist and that people of color have been marginalized in American society, especially in representation in our media, unless its in song and dance or to play criminals. This has only started to change more recently historically speaking.
I disagree on your disagreement. As someone who is not black and not white, whitewashing to me is just as bad as blackwashing, or any other color-washing for that matter. You can't complain about one and rejoice with the other. That's a double standard, that's hypocrisy, and that will NOT solve the problem in the end. And before you go, "you wouldn't feel that way if you were an oppressed female of color", I'll tell you this: People directly involved in an emotional situation (in this case discrimination) are rarely able to make the most objective, logical judgements. It can be argued that someone who's been oppressed for so long will probably be more interested in revenge than in proper equality. The best way to get an objective take on something is to get someone who's detached from the situation. These people think that if a black man is cast as Superman they'll be able to scream "Racism, be gone!" For once, these SJWs have INVADED the realm of comic books and DEMAND to be taken seriously or else you're a RACIST. Some of these people don't even read comic books in the first place, in fact they wouldn't even be bitching like a little girl with a skinned knee and shit if Comic Book Movies were not this popular. I don't see them trying to insert this bullshit on other genres do you? At least in my case (Hispanic) i don0t give a shit about white washing, and all the bitching and moaning about RACE RAPING Comic Book characters have led me to not give two shits and a fuck about social issues or racism... at all. I've become apathetic to it all, basically something racist happen... I couldn't possibly care less. Their BULLYING has made me not care. |
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Post by kuatorises on Apr 22, 2017 17:39:23 GMT
When they made Starbuck a girl, I didn’t even blink. I didn’t care at all. But the race/gender thing is done so often now that it has become forced – which makes it meaningless – diversity. It’s like affirmative action or the boy who cried wolf. You can’t shelve something down people’s throats and expected to stick. It needs to be sincere or organic. Plus, I’m tired of the double standard. People bitch and complain about whitewashing, while completely boring the issue when the opposite is done. That is blatant hypocrisy.People are sick of it and I think that is evident in Marvel’s decreased sales. -True, everyone gang up on Scarlett Johansson for playing Major in Ghost in The Shell, that's whitewashing. But if you criticize Michael B Jordan been cast as Johnny Storm you are a RACIST. -Peter Parker was white in the comics, but he could be a Filipino transvestite nowadays, for "equality". If that's the route they're going let's cast Danny DeVito as the next James Bond, or are you agist? Let's not go that far, looks don't matter but Dave Chappelle is balck and funny, cast him as Jon Stewart, right? Real diversity is not a problem. Equality is of course a good thing. But this forced crap is nothing more than pandering. It just turns people off. |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on Apr 22, 2017 21:07:13 GMT
-True, everyone gang up on Scarlett Johansson for playing Major in Ghost in The Shell, that's whitewashing. But if you criticize Michael B Jordan been cast as Johnny Storm you are a RACIST. -Peter Parker was white in the comics, but he could be a Filipino transvestite nowadays, for "equality". If that's the route they're going let's cast Danny DeVito as the next James Bond, or are you agist? Let's not go that far, looks don't matter but Dave Chappelle is balck and funny, cast him as Jon Stewart, right? Real diversity is not a problem. Equality is of course a good thing. But this forced crap is nothing more than pandering. It just turns people off.   |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 22, 2017 22:46:42 GMT
It bothers me more when they turn a minority into a white person than vice versa because there aren't a lot of good roles for minorities.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 22, 2017 23:13:14 GMT
To me, it doesn't matter unless the character's story is based on his or her race and/or gender. Most white characters are blank slates. Unless the character is from a long line of white supremacist or Nazi then yeah... But most white characters aren't that and is just a Peter Parker or Barry Allen. The thing about making Hal Jordan black is that you don't need to. There's John Stewart. If there is another version of that character and is of a different race then just use that character. It's like "I want to make a Superman movie, but I want Charlize Theron to star as Superman." Just make a Powergirl movie. John Stewart is boring. Just realized that you went away from what I was trying to say in this by saying that Stewart is boring. That wasn't the point. The point is that you don't change a character's race/gender when there is already an alternative. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 25, 2017 13:01:57 GMT
I would love John Stewart over Hal Jordan if GL ever joined the League.
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