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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 11:01:52 GMT
I don't agree with this. Scientists have many questions about human history pre 6 thousand years ago. A written history would not only help today's scientists, it would have helped humanity pre 6 thousand years ago. I wouldn't say no need as in it wouldn't have proved useful even earlier. But less crucial and less a priority than in more modern times. I disagree. I believe it would have been just as useful. If not more useful pre 6 thousand years ago. One reason humanity progressed relatively more slowly pre 6 thousand years ago was no recorded history or writing. In other words, one reason humanity has progressed more quickly on the last 6 thousand years is because we had writing and recorded history.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 11:15:26 GMT
I wouldn't say no need as in it wouldn't have proved useful even earlier. But less crucial and less a priority than in more modern times. I disagree. I believe it would have been just as useful. If not more useful pre 6 thousand years ago. One reason humanity progressed relatively more slowly pre 6 thousand years ago was no recorded history or writing. In other words, one reason humanity has progressed more quickly on the last 6 thousand years is because we had writing and recorded history. No, it isn't... The transition from Mesolithic to the Neolithic caused the Neolithic expansion. It was the change from transhumance based nomadic societies to the advent of farming that led to settled communities with more time on their hands to develop writing, etc. Writing is a product of the domestication of primarily plant species for agriculture. Yours, Fr Jack, archaeologist and evolutionary biologist
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 11:21:01 GMT
I disagree. I believe it would have been just as useful. If not more useful pre 6 thousand years ago. One reason humanity progressed relatively more slowly pre 6 thousand years ago was no recorded history or writing. In other words, one reason humanity has progressed more quickly on the last 6 thousand years is because we had writing and recorded history. No, it isn't... The transition from Mesolithic to the Neolithic caused the Neolithic expansion. It was the change from transhumance based nomadic societies to the advent of farming that led to settled communities with more time on their hands to develop writing, etc. Writing is a product of the domestication of primarily plant species for agriculture. Yours, Fr Jack, archaeologist and evolutionary biologist I do not disagree as to the how and why writing was developed. But I do disagree that humanity would not have benefited from writing being developed earlier than 6,000 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 11:23:51 GMT
No, it isn't... The transition from Mesolithic to the Neolithic caused the Neolithic expansion. It was the change from transhumance based nomadic societies to the advent of farming that led to settled communities with more time on their hands to develop writing, etc. Writing is a product of the domestication of primarily plant species for agriculture. Yours, Fr Jack, archaeologist and evolutionary biologist I do not disagree as to the how and why writing was developed. But I do disagree that humanity would not have benefited from writing being developed earlier than 6,000 years ago. How would writing have benefitted Mesolithic cultures? It wouldn't. What would they want to write 🤷
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 11:37:44 GMT
I do not disagree as to the how and why writing was developed. But I do disagree that humanity would not have benefited from writing being developed earlier than 6,000 years ago. How would writing have benefitted Mesolithic cultures? It wouldn't. What would they want to write 🤷 To pass on information to other people. To record what worked and what didn't. To record what they did. To communicate. These are proven to separate us from the animals. And to help advance humanity.
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Post by phludowin on Mar 12, 2019 11:44:16 GMT
How would writing have benefitted Mesolithic cultures? It wouldn't. What would they want to write 🤷 To pass on information to other people. To record what worked and what didn't. To record what they did. To communicate. These are proven to separate us from the animals. And to help advance humanity. And it did. It happened when it happened. Just like other useful tools, like boats, fire, or the wheel, writing helped humanity advance. It was developed when the time was ready. Just like spoken language.
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Post by Zos on Mar 12, 2019 11:45:10 GMT
I find it odd how Evolutionists claim man has been evolving for millions of years and as modern humans we’ve been around for about 200,000 years. Yet there is no recorded history stretching further than 6000 years which coincidentally enough is how long many Christians believe the bible dates as the beginning of mankind. We have no writings, no battles, no wars, no countries, no carved stones, no nothing. If human evolution is true then surely it would be traceable far beyond 4000bc. Troll or moron? So difficult to tell apart these days.
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Post by Cody™ on Mar 12, 2019 11:48:12 GMT
lowtacks86Not 100% sure I buy those estimates. Mesopotamia is the first civilisation to have ever emerged in human history and they’re dated back to a time period of 3500 BC.
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Post by phludowin on Mar 12, 2019 11:48:34 GMT
I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying writings from pre 4000 BC wouldn't be helpful to us today, I mean for the people at the time they didn't see any practical need to write things down until they had to deal with things like tax etc Okay, I will agree with that. In other words, people were relatively stupid back then. I wouldn't say "stupid". I'd say "less educated". Were Hippocrates or Galenos stupid, just because they didn't know about germs? Were Archimedes or Imhotep stupid, just because they didn't know about relativity?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 11:49:46 GMT
How would writing have benefitted Mesolithic cultures? It wouldn't. What would they want to write 🤷 To pass on information to other people. To record what worked and what didn't. To record what they did. To communicate. These are proven to separate us from the animals. And to help advance humanity. They communicated absolutely fine without writing. They knew what worked and what didn't. Why would they want to write down what they did? For what purpose? They were mobile 'clan' groups. Who wants to carry all these useless written clay tablets around, when you've got all your important life/survival equipment to transport?
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 11:53:44 GMT
Okay, I will agree with that. In other words, people were relatively stupid back then. I wouldn't say "stupid". I'd say "less educated". Were Hippocrates or Galenos stupid, just because they didn't know about germs? Were Archimedes or Imhotep stupid, just because they didn't know about relativity? Relatively speaking, those four were smart. I am talking about people in general.
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Post by Cody™ on Mar 12, 2019 11:59:49 GMT
So modern humans have been around for 200,000 years but it took them 197,000 years to invent the system of writing? Okay then. Just how ignorant can you be? There are many cases of civilizations and other tribes without writing witnessed in recent centuries, for example almost all of the American Indian groups (with a couple of exceptions: the Aztecs and Maya). Even the Inca, an advanced civilization in many respects didn't have writing. You’re missing the point. Are any of those American Indian civilisations older than 4000 BC?
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Post by Cody™ on Mar 12, 2019 12:02:14 GMT
Okay, I will agree with that. In other words, people were relatively stupid back then. I wouldn't say "stupid". I'd say "less educated". Were Hippocrates or Galenos stupid, just because they didn't know about germs? Were Archimedes or Imhotep stupid, just because they didn't know about relativity? You seem relatively educated, and you’re still stupid, sorry.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 12:05:13 GMT
I wouldn't say "stupid". I'd say "less educated". Were Hippocrates or Galenos stupid, just because they didn't know about germs? Were Archimedes or Imhotep stupid, just because they didn't know about relativity? You seem relatively educated, and you’re still stupid, sorry. phludowin likes to disagree and debate.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 12:06:44 GMT
To pass on information to other people. To record what worked and what didn't. To record what they did. To communicate. These are proven to separate us from the animals. And to help advance humanity. They communicated absolutely fine without writing. They knew what worked and what didn't. Why would they want to write down what they did? For what purpose? They were mobile 'clan' groups. Who wants to carry all these useless written clay tablets around, when you've got all your important life/survival equipment to transport? Whatever they did, they would have done better with writing and recording history.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 12:07:37 GMT
To pass on information to other people. To record what worked and what didn't. To record what they did. To communicate. These are proven to separate us from the animals. And to help advance humanity. And it did. It happened when it happened. Just like other useful tools, like boats, fire, or the wheel, writing helped humanity advance. It was developed when the time was ready. Just like spoken language. That has nothing to do with the point I was making.
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 12, 2019 13:17:35 GMT
No, it isn't... The transition from Mesolithic to the Neolithic caused the Neolithic expansion. It was the change from transhumance based nomadic societies to the advent of farming that led to settled communities with more time on their hands to develop writing, etc. Writing is a product of the domestication of primarily plant species for agriculture. Yours, Fr Jack, archaeologist and evolutionary biologist I do not disagree as to the how and why writing was developed. But I do disagree that humanity would not have benefited from writing being developed earlier than 6,000 years ago. If you think about it, writing would have been quite an innovative concept: Bulg: What are you doing, Thog? Thog: I'm carving symbols into this rock. Bulg: Why? Thog: To represent various objects and concepts. Bulg: Oh. So what does this symbol mean? Thog: An aurochs Bulg: Doesn't look much like an aurochs to me. Thog: It's not meant to be, it's a symbol for convenience's sake, so I can scratch out a long message Bulg: Oh. A message saying what? Thog: That yesterday, Thakk slew an aurochs Bulg: Why can't you just speak that? Thog: Because I want future generations to know that Thakk slew an aurochs Bulg: But how will future generations know what your symbols mean? Thog: Well if this takes off, there will be many bits of stone with symbols on and future generations can compare and contrast these with one another in painstaking detail to get a rough idea of what I'm trying to say Bulg: And you think future generations will care that Thakk killed an aurochs? Thog: Oh yes Bulg: Thog… you're weird
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Post by movieliker on Mar 12, 2019 13:25:56 GMT
I do not disagree as to the how and why writing was developed. But I do disagree that humanity would not have benefited from writing being developed earlier than 6,000 years ago. If you think about it, writing would have been quite an innovative concept: Bulg: What are you doing, Thog? Thog: I'm carving symbols into this rock. Bulg: Why? Thog: To represent various objects and concepts. Bulg: Oh. So what does this symbol mean? Thog: An aurochs Bulg: Doesn't look much like an aurochs to me. Thog: It's not meant to be, it's a symbol for convenience's sake, so I can scratch out a long message Bulg: Oh. A message saying what? Thog: That yesterday, Thakk slew an aurochs Bulg: Why can't you just speak that? Thog: Because I want future generations to know that Thakk slew an aurochs Bulg: But how will future generations know what your symbols mean? Thog: Well if this takes off, there will be many bits of stone with symbols on and future generations can compare and contrast these with one another in painstaking detail to get a rough idea of what I'm trying to say Bulg: And you think future generations will care that Thakk killed an aurochs? Thog: Oh yes Bulg: Thog… you're weird Well that may have been useful. But also how they lived, what they ate, how they prepared food, where they lived and traveled, etc. Especially how Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon men got along. If they fully described what they were doing and why, modern man would not have as many questions. And their present day counterparts would have advanced more quickly by way of shared information.
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 12, 2019 13:33:07 GMT
If you think about it, writing would have been quite an innovative concept: Bulg: What are you doing, Thog? Thog: I'm carving symbols into this rock. Bulg: Why? Thog: To represent various objects and concepts. Bulg: Oh. So what does this symbol mean? Thog: An aurochs Bulg: Doesn't look much like an aurochs to me. Thog: It's not meant to be, it's a symbol for convenience's sake, so I can scratch out a long message Bulg: Oh. A message saying what? Thog: That yesterday, Thakk slew an aurochs Bulg: Why can't you just speak that? Thog: Because I want future generations to know that Thakk slew an aurochs Bulg: But how will future generations know what your symbols mean? Thog: Well if this takes off, there will be many bits of stone with symbols on and future generations can compare and contrast these with one another in painstaking detail to get a rough idea of what I'm trying to say Bulg: And you think future generations will care that Thakk killed an aurochs? Thog: Oh yes Bulg: Thog… you're weird Well that may have been useful. But also how they lived, what they ate, how they prepared food, where they lived and traveled, etc. Especially how Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon men got along. If they fully described what they were doing and why, modern man would not have as many questions. And their present day counterparts would have advanced more quickly by way of shared information. Quite possibly, but these things come along when the situation dictates I guess. It's like saying if the wheel had been invented 2000 years earlier, the Romans might have had cars.
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Post by phludowin on Mar 12, 2019 13:34:53 GMT
Well that may have been useful. But also how they lived, what they ate, how they prepared food, where they lived and traveled, etc. Especially how Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon men got along. If they fully described what they were doing and why, modern man would not have as many questions. And their present day counterparts would have advanced more quickly by way of shared information. Darn those stupid cavemen, not caring what people in a few thousand years might think! Maybe if they had known that their descendants would sit in front of flat screens, typing on tiny boards in order to discuss how the cavemen should have lived, they would have climbed back on the trees, or gone back into the oceans. Maybe dolphins are smarter than humans. They don't invent the wheel, the city of New York, or wars. They just swim in the water and have a good time. That is a simplification of course, courtesy of Douglas Adams. Don't panic.
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