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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 17, 2019 1:39:54 GMT
How are they badly written and why are RDJ and Pratt's acting bad? They are both written as comedic and both are very bad actors. Having a sense of humor doesn't mean they're comedically written, also being written as comedic does not mean a character is automatically badly written or an invalidated portrayal of a character, to play devil's advocate - Adam West's Batman and the many actors who played most of his rogues gallery in the 1960's show were comedic but they're perfectly valid portrayals and have had influence over later versions(Kevin Conroy is pretty much imitating West as Batman but in a somber tone of voice in anything he's done Batman related). Regarding RDJ and Chris Pratt how are they 'very bad actors'? Downey, Jr. has multiple award nominations and was handpicked by David Fincher, Richard Linklater, John Hughes, Robert Altman, Oliver Stone, and Lord Richard Attenborough for their movies - If he were very bad I doubt any of those talented men would've chosen him for their productions, oh and if you're going to use the argument "he was just a big draw back then so that's why they picked him" he wasn't a draw till 2008. Pratt just compare him in Everwood to Parks and Rec., two pretty different characters played well, or Star Lord to Owen in Jurassic World literally little to compare the two there. If you don't like their portrayals of Iron Man or Star Lord that's fine but to be honest I've come across very little people in real life who thought they sucked as those characters, in fact I've come into contact with people who can talk up a storm about how different Tony Stark is in the comics to the movies but they even admit RDJ is very charismatic and fun to watch.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 17, 2019 1:48:14 GMT
Sadly they butchered most of the characters but for the worst its a 3 way tie between Iron Man,Star Lord and Captain Marvel. In what way was Iron Man or Star Lord butchered? Also, Captain Marvel was already butchered by Kelly Sue Deconnick. I suppose if you compare CM and IM to the comic book characters I remember you could say they weren't very faithful representations, however in both cases I liked the movie character better. The way they portrayed Howard Stark in CA:TFA and Peggy Carter is more how I remember Tony in the comics I read and I liked him; but RDJ created a fascinating and unique character that's next level in my opinion.
I remember CM mostly from a few issues of Avengers, Ms Marvel and her X-Men appearances circa UXM 160. She was hot but completely uninteresting, serious most all the time and angry and/or sulking when she wasn't. Granted she'd just had her life sucked out of her by Rogue, but I was more interested in Rogue despite the fact I found her about as attractive as a skunk, at least then and while they sexed her up later that hair always put me off. Rogue thought she was defending her mother and was conditioned to think she was fighting a war for survival. That Danvers couldn't forgive her and work with her despite being a military officer at one time was perhaps understandable but not endearing. It would be like the Skrulls in the movie never forgiving her for fighting for the Kree, and if that's a real war she must have oceans of Skrull blood on her hands.
I didn't ever read Guardians of the Galaxy so I can't comment on their depiction of them. Friends would tell me about Drax the Destroyer and Ronan the Accuser but they were just names to me as was Star Lord. The raccoon they told me about put me off, that sounded like kids stuff so I never picked it up. Kinda ironic as it was them raving about Thor who I hadn't given a chance (because everyone knows Thor's supposed to have red hair and I was initially unimpressed with Simonson's art as it looked sloppy to me at first) and me seeing Thor as a frog on a cover that I picked up solely to prove to them how stupid it was is how I found Simonson's Thor. To my astonishment I found it was damned good, hysterical even--dramatic as well. I ended up getting all the back issues to #337 (?) and in my opinion that Simonson Thor run is the best run in comics up to ~1994 when I quit buying them. So maybe I should have given the raccoon a chance, I think he's my favorite character amongst the Guardians in the movies.
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Post by thenewnexus on Mar 17, 2019 1:59:05 GMT
They are both written as comedic and both are very bad actors. Having a sense of humor doesn't mean they're comedically written, also being written as comedic does not mean a character is automatically badly written or an invalidated portrayal of a character, to play devil's advocate - Adam West's Batman and the many actors who played most of his rogues gallery in the 1960's show were comedic but they're perfectly valid portrayals and have had influence over later versions(Kevin Conroy is pretty much imitating West as Batman but in a somber tone of voice in anything he's done Batman related). Regarding RDJ and Chris Pratt how are they 'very bad actors'? Downey, Jr. has multiple award nominations and was handpicked by David Fincher, Richard Linklater, John Hughes, Robert Altman, Oliver Stone, and Lord Richard Attenborough for their movies - If he were very bad I doubt any of those talented men would've chosen him for their productions, oh and if you're going to use the argument "he was just a big draw back then so that's why they picked him" he wasn't a draw till 2008. Pratt just compare him in Everwood to Parks and Rec., two pretty different characters played well, or Star Lord to Owen in Jurassic World literally little to compare the two there. If you don't like their portrayals of Iron Man or Star Lord that's fine but to be honest I've come across very little people in real life who thought they sucked as those characters, in fact I've come into contact with people who can talk up a storm about how different Tony Stark is in the comics to the movies but they even admit RDJ is very charismatic and fun to watch. Why do bash Batman and Robin then? You pretty much making an argument why its good. Hypocritical much? RDJ has friends in high places his performances aren't anything to brag about. Pratt is just looks right now jurassic world wasn't a good performance. Tony Stark being different from the comics is the problem
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 17, 2019 2:07:20 GMT
SJ's line delivery is so monotone. Lot's of actresses post 80s seem to do it though. Like they are reading a phone book. I think she puts a lot of personality into her lines, although there was one movie I recently re-watched where she sounded like she had a cold or a slight case of laryngitis. Can't remember for sure which one it was, maybe TWS?
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 17, 2019 2:16:21 GMT
I think she puts a lot of personality into her lines, although there was one movie I recently re-watched where she sounded like she had a cold or a slight case of laryngitis. Can't remember for sure which one it was, maybe TWS? Compared to acting of the 80s or earlier she sounds like she is bored. Especially for a comic book role-but most of them sound like they are doing a road house version of a slice of life dramedy than a superhero fantasy.
Kate Beckinsale would have given a more lively performance. Someone like that would have been better for it (if the MCU movies were done about ten years earlier).
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 17, 2019 2:33:48 GMT
I think she puts a lot of personality into her lines, although there was one movie I recently re-watched where she sounded like she had a cold or a slight case of laryngitis. Can't remember for sure which one it was, maybe TWS? Compared to acting of the 80s or earlier she sounds like she is bored. Especially for a comic book role-but most of them sound like they are doing a road house version of a slice of life dramedy than a superhero fantasy.
Kate Beckinsale would have given a more lively performance. Someone like that would have been better for it (if the MCU movies were done about ten years earlier).
I think that's just her sarcastic style, a slight mocking tone to a lot of her lines because that's who she is. It really works for me especially because she shows vulnerability well too, she's smart enough to realize she's often in over her head fighting supercritters with fists, feet and wits and one slip might mean her ticket gets punched, it's a defense mechanism. Even better she knows it 'I only act like I know everything.'
I don't know KB well enough to comment, but I really like SJ's interpretation of the character, she's another one I like much better on screen than in the comics.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 17, 2019 5:50:40 GMT
Having a sense of humor doesn't mean they're comedically written, also being written as comedic does not mean a character is automatically badly written or an invalidated portrayal of a character, to play devil's advocate - Adam West's Batman and the many actors who played most of his rogues gallery in the 1960's show were comedic but they're perfectly valid portrayals and have had influence over later versions(Kevin Conroy is pretty much imitating West as Batman but in a somber tone of voice in anything he's done Batman related). Regarding RDJ and Chris Pratt how are they 'very bad actors'? Downey, Jr. has multiple award nominations and was handpicked by David Fincher, Richard Linklater, John Hughes, Robert Altman, Oliver Stone, and Lord Richard Attenborough for their movies - If he were very bad I doubt any of those talented men would've chosen him for their productions, oh and if you're going to use the argument "he was just a big draw back then so that's why they picked him" he wasn't a draw till 2008. Pratt just compare him in Everwood to Parks and Rec., two pretty different characters played well, or Star Lord to Owen in Jurassic World literally little to compare the two there. If you don't like their portrayals of Iron Man or Star Lord that's fine but to be honest I've come across very little people in real life who thought they sucked as those characters, in fact I've come into contact with people who can talk up a storm about how different Tony Stark is in the comics to the movies but they even admit RDJ is very charismatic and fun to watch. Why do bash Batman and Robin then? You pretty much making an argument why its good. Hypocritical much? RDJ has friends in high places his performances aren't anything to brag about. Pratt is just looks right now jurassic world wasn't a good performance. Tony Stark being different from the comics is the problem Because the 1960's Batman series was good and entertaining camp and actually helped the character when they were in the ruts(Without that show the comic might've been cancelled) whereas Batman & Robin was a badly made movie with poor attempts at camp that ruined people's perception of the character and superheroes in general. The 60's Batman series was self-aware of what type of show it was trying to be and did it with a level of attention to detail and with heart, whereas the Batman & Robin movie from 1997 was a pretty cynical product that forced campy elements into the story without a better understanding of what made the iteration of the character it was paying respects to work. Adam West's Batman has remained a staple in our popular culture and left notable imprints on the franchise whereas everybody avoids making reference to the Batman & Robin movie - again, Kevin Conroy's voice for Batman is a somber imitation of West's. What makes you an expert of what constitutes as good acting? I would say most people would take the judgement of David Fincher, Richard Linklater, Oliver Stone, Robert Altman, and Lord Richard Attenborough(an actor himself and highly regarded in that field I might add) over yours, they've directed plenty of Oscar and BAFTA nominated and winning performances in their careers so I'd imagine they would know more about good acting than you do. With Chaplin the original studio Universal wanted a bigger name actor like Dustin Hoffman or Billy Crystal to which Attenborough refused to comply because he liked Downey, Jr.'s audition the most - and *a lot* of people auditioned for it. Pratt was not a hunk in the eye of mainstream media before Star Lord, he was not considered leading man material at all till the combined successes of The Lego Movie and Guardians of the Galaxy, people knew of him from Parks and Rec., Everwood, Zero Dark Thirty, Wanted, Her, The Five-Year Engagement, and Moneyball but there wasn't a serious demand for him to headline anything major by himself. Looks don't stick, look at Taylor Lautner they tried to keep the fire going after those Twilight movies ended but his time leading major releases was short lived - most prefer him in supporting parts, friends in high places don't guarantee work either - have some friends who work or have worked in the industry for years and have met and are friends with some pretty respected individuals and they're not making millions every day and leading blockbuster after blockbuster sounds to me like you can't stand that most people view RDJ and Pratt as being good, sorry but time to accept you're the minority on this one, bud. No it isn't, adaptations are supposed to alter the characters they bring to the screen because literature and film are two different mediums and designed for different audiences sometimes changing things up works other times no. The MCU version of Tony Stark is without question a working one as it made the character an A list superhero and pretty much every piece of content published after the first Iron Man movie takes influence from the movies portrayal. And technically speaking the MCU version of Tony Stark is, in addition to original material a mash-up of Stan Lee/Don Heck, bit of Warren Ellis, and the Ultimates.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 17, 2019 5:52:25 GMT
In what way was Iron Man or Star Lord butchered? Also, Captain Marvel was already butchered by Kelly Sue Deconnick. I suppose if you compare CM and IM to the comic book characters I remember you could say they weren't very faithful representations, however in both cases I liked the movie character better. The way they portrayed Howard Stark in CA:TFA and Peggy Carter is more how I remember Tony in the comics I read and I liked him; but RDJ created a fascinating and unique character that's next level in my opinion.
I remember CM mostly from a few issues of Avengers, Ms Marvel and her X-Men appearances circa UXM 160. She was hot but completely uninteresting, serious most all the time and angry and/or sulking when she wasn't. Granted she'd just had her life sucked out of her by Rogue, but I was more interested in Rogue despite the fact I found her about as attractive as a skunk, at least then and while they sexed her up later that hair always put me off. Rogue thought she was defending her mother and was conditioned to think she was fighting a war for survival. That Danvers couldn't forgive her and work with her despite being a military officer at one time was perhaps understandable but not endearing. It would be like the Skrulls in the movie never forgiving her for fighting for the Kree, and if that's a real war she must have oceans of Skrull blood on her hands.
I didn't ever read Guardians of the Galaxy so I can't comment on their depiction of them. Friends would tell me about Drax the Destroyer and Ronan the Accuser but they were just names to me as was Star Lord. The raccoon they told me about put me off, that sounded like kids stuff so I never picked it up. Kinda ironic as it was them raving about Thor who I hadn't given a chance (because everyone knows Thor's supposed to have red hair and I was initially unimpressed with Simonson's art as it looked sloppy to me at first) and me seeing Thor as a frog on a cover that I picked up solely to prove to them how stupid it was is how I found Simonson's Thor. To my astonishment I found it was damned good, hysterical even--dramatic as well. I ended up getting all the back issues to #337 (?) and in my opinion that Simonson Thor run is the best run in comics up to ~1994 when I quit buying them. So maybe I should have given the raccoon a chance, I think he's my favorite character amongst the Guardians in the movies.
Thanks for the response, I wish nexus were half as articulate and as cohesive as you are, as well as fair.
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